Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

[tris]

What exactly is the case Flubber being scum?

[tris]

*the case on

[Chara]

good question. 2336 and followup are really weird posts because it's saying that u2 and i need to be the same alignment because we have superficially similar posting styles?

[Ankamius]

What exactly is the case Flubber being scum?

*the case on

It's a gamestate read, his alignment holds a pretty big key to solving it I think. His actions indicate a scum agenda that I suspect is in play this game and him flipping scum would go a long way towards proving that.

Plus if he ends up flipping town instead, then that's a big sign I need to rethink again.

It's a high information high scum equity lynch

[Chara]

it's such a weird read, the more i think about it, really. i don't think u2 and i have played this game in a similar way at all, and the only similarity was that we both happen to be chatty. it's a strange categorization and criticism of skitter's reads in a way that doesn't feel like anything beyond surface level.

[Nimueh]

I’m tilted because I have been putting a lot of effort into trying to solve this game and to know I have been basically wasting my time, just waiting until God knows when, I get mislynched, was just not cool with me. I’m sorry if you think I’m overreacting but I consider Ank someone who should be able to read me, so maybe what you’re not getting is it’s a bit hard not to take this personally since I’m pretty sure Reck is wrong and she’s also town here.

i do get it. it's frustrating. there are a lot of players that i think should be able to read me by now and when they don't it's very disheartening. it's also bittersweet to hear "you're good at scum, so i can't townread you."
but Ank is obviously not doing it on purpose, she's solving with what she has, so there's no need to insult her. obviously this whole conversation only applies if you're town (which i lean towards).

you're not wasting your time. i just don't like to see players insulting each other or being hurt because of misreads.

Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Earlier, she accused me of “pretending” to be town and I still have no clue why her read on me flipped. All I know is that she’s dead wrong about my pretending anything, since I have been totally honest and forthcoming about everything since this game started. I know she’s not doing it on purpose. If I thought she was scum trying to push a mislynch on me, like I think may possibly be true for Skitter, I’d be a lot less upset. So yeah, and add to that my catch 22 of not wanting to be outted, makes it extremely difficult to properly defend myself, so no matter how you look at it, it all around sucks. :/

I even contemplated replacing out but I wondered if that would make me even angrier at Ank if I did that. Maybe I should have done that and kept my cool. I just really didn’t know how to handle this and obviously, I handled it badly.

I just don’t understand how she can be so far off on me this game and I don’t think anything short of my flip will convince her. I hope I’m wrong but if she can’t tell I’m town by now, I don’t see how that changes.

However, I do sincerely apologize if my outbursts made anyone uncomfortable. I just couldn’t go figure out how to remain stuck in a game, where I would continue to be wrongly sr.

[Chara]

i don't really see that. if Ank couldn't be convinced off of you, she wouldn't have contingency scumreads based on you not being scum, nor would she say things like "if Flubber flips town then i need to rethink this game".

[Ankamius]

Nim i need to look at your case for, because there are very few players i'm willing to think will lean this far into the emotional side of things as scum, though they do exist.

Trust me, Nim fits into that category.

[Chara]

would you mind quoting your Nim case? i'd look but your ISO is fairly long and i don't have time to do a blanket read of the game.

[tris]

What exactly is the case Flubber being scum?

*the case on

It's a gamestate read, his alignment holds a pretty big key to solving it I think. His actions indicate a scum agenda that I suspect is in play this game and him flipping scum would go a long way towards proving that.

Plus if he ends up flipping town instead, then that's a big sign I need to rethink again.

It's a high information high scum equity lynch

What is that scum agenda?

[Ankamius]

What exactly is the case Flubber being scum?

*the case on

It's a gamestate read, his alignment holds a pretty big key to solving it I think. His actions indicate a scum agenda that I suspect is in play this game and him flipping scum would go a long way towards proving that.

Plus if he ends up flipping town instead, then that's a big sign I need to rethink again.

It's a high information high scum equity lynch

What is that scum agenda?

1. I suspect scum have been mostly following town pushes overall rather than pushing their own, this explains all the disproportionately large amount of small wagons that keep popping up all over the place

2. Wagons tend to stall out and the majority of wagons slowly slip into nothingness when they are no longer in the spotlight, this indicates 'lazy' play where there isn't a wholly dominant force controlling the wagons and when/where they are placed

3. The amount of wagons that keep popping up is large enough in amount that show scum are most likely staying on separate wagons

Flubbernugget isn't making any particular pushes on his own that he intends to go anywhere.
Flubbernugget is mostly following lynches.

Considering my scumread on Nimueh, the two of them were never on the same wagon throughout day one. Nimueh doesn't as much follow the other conditions, but Nimueh was also absent for more than half of day one, so that isn't indicative.

That's two down.

Flubbernuggets only 'push' is on the Xtoxm slot, and a cursory look shows that Urap2 isn't making any particular push that goes anywhere, the only time he votes with Flubber or Nimueh is on the original NMSA wagon, and I have to remember that Urap2 made a pretty dramatic shift in reads to account for him suddenly leaving the wagon.

And now here's the kicker:

Nimueh knew that I had a good record of reading her.
I was scumreading Flubbernugget.
I was scumreading urap2

Urap2 suddenly switches his reads to match mine nearly word for word.

That looks a lot less town from this particular light.

[Ankamius]

Skitter30 somewhat matches this trend, I think if she was scum she reversed off of tris because she knew she would get heat for that wagon.

Plus there's just some bizarre stuff about her that I've been noting all game that just doesn't quite add up.

It doesn't fit as perfectly as the above three, but it's still notable.

NMSA, again, is pick #5 predominantly because it makes sense for scum to want to double push him down if he got that much heat early on to get free towncred and to reduce the odds of NMSA getting them caught. Plus it makes more sense for Urap2 and Flubber to make the actions they did after the wagon started falling apart if they wanted to recover from that failed gambit.

[Ankamius]

If Nimueh is town here, she's just the Eddie Cane this game

I did the exact same thing where I narrowed the scumteam down to town him and an actual scum and pushed the actual scum down. He got megatilted and was genuinely shocked when I town locked him the next day despite my other scumread flipping scum.

For the last time Nimueh, I'm not an idiot. If you believe I'm at all competent, just let me fucking work and if you are legitimately town, I will either be able to lock it in or lynching you will win town the game.

[Chara]

I need to reread the game but

Skitter is still town
NMSA is town (sorry, mate)
Enter is town
Ank is town

All three of these reactions come from town

Spoiler:

show me urap2

So uh this is embarrassing


and I think I might get mislynched for the first time this day phase as a result lolMy bad, like, not even upset if that happens


but nmsa is town LOL

UNVOTE:

uh ... do tell

So uh this is embarrassing


and I think I might get mislynched for the first time this day phase as a result lolMy bad, like, not even upset if that happens


but nmsa is town LOL

UNVOTE:

You're going to have to say more than this.

VOTE: ank[/v]

I'm willing to wait a bit for lurkers to get replaced, though, otherwise I'm down with LaL. I think both of them have probably been prodded and they're both well past the replace time.

VOTE: ank

Reads list please.

i think it's really premature for u2 at this point to have said these extremely simple reactions to his post "come from town". there's again that lack of critical thinking i disliked earlier.
it feels fabricated. his push on NMSA the whole day was based on his idea of where nmsa would take his meta, and his turnaround was again based on an idea rather than nmsa's actual posting.

his read on me: (if anyone is tired of me bringing this up wrt reading players, oh well. :>) it's had a very arbitrary direction. i started out as a scumread, became a gut townread in spite of changing nothing about my play at the time (i was still playing disinterestedly), and then he mentions my posting regarding his turnaround on nmsa looks like deflated scum. he doesn't really followup on that at all, though i replied to it, and later says he isn't interested in voting me, though he isn't townreading me.

the behaviour around Enter still looks like pocketing to me.

regarding the read on Brigitte: it looks to me like a pretty NAI thing, though at first glance i sort of want to townread it. it's probably done the most to shake me on this reread scumread. neither of them are in the game anymore so i can't poke this, and i really wouldn't want to, anyway. i'll call it NAI.

2142 from Xtoxm: he's said he wants a wagon and is fine with going after anyone who isn't a TR. that's fine, but he's voting Brigitte while distancing himself from saying the wagon will actually flip scum. it's a pretty easy way to avoid responsibility for that.
after Brig's flip he goes immediately to tris with very little thinking on the subject.

and i don't like how instead of using the time in between voting one of the wagons that could get a lynch, he was disinterested in discussing really anything. our conversation about skitter's reply to his entrance fizzled out, and he didn't want to pursue trying to read Elbirn in spite of mentioning this could be his scumgame (though he admitted the meta was very cold.)
and then his next post is voting Elbirn. directly after my Elbirn vote and him getting some mild heat from Creature and skitter.

there's so much disinterest in the outcome of the game. i think i like the tris vote the least, though.

[Chara]

i think i like an Xtoxm lynch a lot more than a Flubber one. the nmsa thing is notable, but as skitter pointed out it changed direction

after

nmsa's wagon had cooled down. u2 shopped around for a different lynch after that.

he's a few times now made posts to the effect of trying to understand other players, but it seems more like lip service to me than anything else. and Xtoxm's contributions upon replacing in have been nil. for someone who wants to lynch anyone besides his townreads, i don't think he did very much to actually make those townreads to use.

[Ankamius]

Does xtoxm give you more info or do you think he's scummier

I'm more worried about the former

[Chara]

VOTE: succinct for now. I need to reread chara wrt the brig wagon

why did you vote Succinct here, Flubber?

[Chara]

Does xtoxm give you more info or do you think he's scummier

I'm more worried about the former

i haven't gotten that far yet. right now i would say there have been more interesting reads given on u2 (skitter as an example) so i think his flip is telling.
but i need to do my own looking at how both of them relate to the gamestate. Flubber's been a nullscum read for a good amount of players this hame, iirc.

[Ankamius]

I suppose so

I'll compromise on Xtoxm if I have to but I still think Flubber gives me more direct info that I can use for somewhat similar reasons

[Ankamius]

But if we do compromise on Xtoxm and we get a scumflip, I'm going full tilt on lynching that slot tomorrow.

[Chara]

that's fine, i agree about them having a good likelihood of being partners. Flubber's u2 push came at a time u2 was not going to be lynched, he was being strongly townread by a lot of the game.
and he used it to pivot onto me, seemingly ignoring Xtoxm's Brigitte vote entirely. i also don't know why he was townreading Brigitte.
i townread his pushes being controversial but after the ISO i wondered if they were just in place so he could push a slot that wouldn't actually be lynched.

[Chara]

Xtoxm and tris are probably not scum together, but i could see tris/Flubber. i'm not townreading her, really.
but i wouldn't flip tris before either of them. it's more that there isn't much i want to townread her for besides some minor stuff relating to the Brigitte wagon.

[Ankamius]

What do you think of Succinct?

[Chara]

i can go look now. i admittedly wrote Enter off as town at some point and haven't reassessed.

[Chara]

i get very little from Succinct. i'd call that part of the slot's contribution to be very null to me.

i think more elaboration from them about why tris is towny would be really helpful.