Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

[Nimueh]

What exactly is the case Flubber being scum?

*the case on

It's a gamestate read, his alignment holds a pretty big key to solving it I think. His actions indicate a scum agenda that I suspect is in play this game and him flipping scum would go a long way towards proving that.

Plus if he ends up flipping town instead, then that's a big sign I need to rethink again.

It's a high information high scum equity lynch

Can you elaborate on this?

[Nimueh]

it's such a weird read, the more i think about it, really. i don't think u2 and i have played this game in a similar way at all, and the only similarity was that we both happen to be chatty. it's a strange categorization and criticism of skitter's reads in a way that doesn't feel like anything beyond surface level.

Well, I’ve been questioning why everyone had him as locktown. I assumed he was when I made that readslist since everyone seemed to think this but especially with Xtoxm’s posting, I’ve been having doubts about that.

[Chara]

@succinct: Flubber pings me as town bc of the votehops. they don't seem calculated, they seem to be occurring to flubber as he plays. idk if he could fake that as scum.

@nim: what's your read on me?

is Flubber very calculating as scum?

[Nimueh]

i don't really see that. if Ank couldn't be convinced off of you, she wouldn't have contingency scumreads based on you not being scum, nor would she say things like "if Flubber flips town then i need to rethink this game".

But if her read on me is connected to Flubber and if he winds up flipping scum, how does that change her read on me? Do you see my my point? What do I have anything to do with either Flubber or Xtoxm?

[Nimueh]

Nim i need to look at your case for, because there are very few players i'm willing to think will lean this far into the emotional side of things as scum, though they do exist.

Trust me, Nim fits into that category.

But not in this case.

[Nimueh]

What exactly is the case Flubber being scum?

*the case on

It's a gamestate read, his alignment holds a pretty big key to solving it I think. His actions indicate a scum agenda that I suspect is in play this game and him flipping scum would go a long way towards proving that.

Plus if he ends up flipping town instead, then that's a big sign I need to rethink again.

It's a high information high scum equity lynch

What is that scum agenda?

1. I suspect scum have been mostly following town pushes overall rather than pushing their own, this explains all the disproportionately large amount of small wagons that keep popping up all over the place

2. Wagons tend to stall out and the majority of wagons slowly slip into nothingness when they are no longer in the spotlight, this indicates 'lazy' play where there isn't a wholly dominant force controlling the wagons and when/where they are placed

3. The amount of wagons that keep popping up is large enough in amount that show scum are most likely staying on separate wagons

Flubbernugget isn't making any particular pushes on his own that he intends to go anywhere.
Flubbernugget is mostly following lynches.

Considering my scumread on Nimueh, the two of them were never on the same wagon throughout day one. Nimueh doesn't as much follow the other conditions, but Nimueh was also absent for more than half of day one, so that isn't indicative.

That's two down.

Flubbernuggets only 'push' is on the Xtoxm slot, and a cursory look shows that Urap2 isn't making any particular push that goes anywhere, the only time he votes with Flubber or Nimueh is on the original NMSA wagon, and I have to remember that Urap2 made a pretty dramatic shift in reads to account for him suddenly leaving the wagon.

And now here's the kicker:

Nimueh knew that I had a good record of reading her.
I was scumreading Flubbernugget.
I was scumreading urap2

Urap2 suddenly switches his reads to match mine nearly word for word.

That looks a lot less town from this particular light.

Why the hell do you think I would sheep Flubber? If I were going to sheep anyone at the time - had I been online att which I wasn’t, it would have have been you, Chara or - well I’d say Creature but he hadn’t yet replaced into the game yet. Now. I’d probably add Tris to that list, as well.

[Nimueh]

If Nimueh is town here, she's just the Eddie Cane this game

I did the exact same thing where I narrowed the scumteam down to town him and an actual scum and pushed the actual scum down. He got megatilted and was genuinely shocked when I town locked him the next day despite my other scumread flipping scum.

For the last time Nimueh, I'm not an idiot. If you believe I'm at all competent, just let me fucking work and if you are legitimately town, I will either be able to lock it in or lynching you will win town the game.

Ank, ffs, I think I know what my alignment is, so no there is no way mislynching me wins the game for town but I’m glad to know you are at least questioning your read on me. You really shouldn’t be, since you were right when you correctly tr me, so I’m sorry but you’re not going to be able to convince me that mislynching me or anyone for that matter, wins town the game. Unless, this is a secret jester game that nsg has been keeping from us.

[Nimueh]

i think i like an Xtoxm lynch a lot more than a Flubber one. the nmsa thing is notable, but as skitter pointed out it changed direction

after

nmsa's wagon had cooled down. u2 shopped around for a different lynch after that.

he's a few times now made posts to the effect of trying to understand other players, but it seems more like lip service to me than anything else. and Xtoxm's contributions upon replacing in have been nil. for someone who wants to lynch anyone besides his townreads, i don't think he did very much to actually make those townreads to use.

i have no idea why everyone is tr that slot

and brig could have hammered it on like p33
what a missed opportunity

If everyone hadn’t already locktowned the urap slot, the above post would have probably pinged me. I think unless Ank shares her reasoning on why Flubber is such an ideal lynch, I’d be more inclined to agree with you.

[Ankamius]

where it's inevitable those scum will be lynched*

that was awkwardly worded, sorry

I usually default to scumslips are nai, but this one seemed different for some reason????

?????

[Nimueh]

Does xtoxm give you more info or do you think he's scummier

I'm more worried about the former

You think Xtoxm is lower info?

[Ankamius]

Nim, you being flipped town doesn't help anything. at all, really. it would just be a way for you to get out of the game, just like Brigitte did. i'm interested in solving, not flipping players who want to be flipped. the fact that you want out makes you even less likely to be scum to me. proving you as town doesn't affect Ank's solve very much, so there's just no point in doing it.
if you want to leave this game, replace out. that's how it works. wanting to be lynched when you're town doesn't help anyone.
or, keep playing and keep pushing your reads even if you're being scumread. that's also part of being town.

First off, I agree with what you said earlier. I do owe Ank an apology. She is just playing the game and regardless of what I think of her read on me or how I feel about it, she didn’t deserve my being a jerk to her, so Ank, I’m sory.

Now. wrt to what you’re saying here. my replacing out doesn’t change her read on me, which is the entire point - to prove what I’m saying is the truth. And if you have no problem being wrongly lockscum read, I give you mad props for that but I don’t know how to deal with that. And I honestly don’t blame Brigitte, except that of course for the awful self-hammer. What you’re advocating here is a lot easier said than done.

accepted

In the future, I think I'll just avoid reading you at all and just defaulting to "don't let near lylo" because regardless of your alignment, scumreading you always derails the game

I'm just not dealing with it anymore because it compromises my ability to do my own thing

[Ankamius]

Why the hell do you think I would sheep Flubber? If I were going to sheep anyone at the time - had I been online att which I wasn’t, it would have have been you, Chara or - well I’d say Creature but he hadn’t yet replaced into the game yet. Now. I’d probably add Tris to that list, as well.

I don't understand

I never said you sheeped flubber

[xRECKONERx]

@succinct: Flubber pings me as town bc of the votehops. they don't seem calculated, they seem to be occurring to flubber as he plays. idk if he could fake that as scum.

@nim: what's your read on me?

is Flubber very calculating as scum?

i dont know because meta is garbage

[Nimueh]

Does xtoxm give you more info or do you think he's scummier

I'm more worried about the former

i haven't gotten that far yet. right now i would say there have been more interesting reads given on u2 (skitter as an example) so i think his flip is telling.
but i need to do my own looking at how both of them relate to the gamestate. Flubber's been a nullscum read for a good amount of players this hame, iirc.

I think an Xtoxm lynch definitely gives us more info on Skitter she she hardtown read urap. If urap is town, then I’m probably wrong on Skitter but if he flips scum, decent odds she is as well, since she hard defended him or she could just have goddawful reads this game too, I suppose.

[Ankamius]

Does xtoxm give you more info or do you think he's scummier

I'm more worried about the former

You think Xtoxm is lower info?

yes

[Nimueh]

Xtoxm and tris are probably not scum together, but i could see tris/Flubber. i'm not townreading her, really.
but i wouldn't flip tris before either of them. it's more that there isn't much i want to townread her for besides some minor stuff relating to the Brigitte wagon.

Nah, I’d definitely lynch Skitter before Tris. I don’t get the sr on her at all.

[Nimueh]

still have a really hard time mustering a scumread on Enter, which makes me want to say he's town here. i'm comfortable enough with that in the absence of a scumcase on Enter or Succinct. i could towncase him but i'll only put in the energy to do that if it's really necessary. i think all of his stances make a lot of sense given his mafia philosophy and every bit of his progression is available for perusal. perhaps the worst thing i can say about his ISO is the lack of reassessment on some things. i also don't see him as scum with u2/Xtoxm at all, so if that flips scum i might as well locktown Enter/Succinct.

Yes, I agree with that. Flubber and Succunt/Enter are highly unlikely to be S/S here.

[Chara]

dont know because meta is garbage

then i don't know if that's a great reason to townread Flubber, since playing the game by ear and vote hopping as he feels he wants to is something scum can do fairly easily in a general sense.

[Nimueh]

Ank is being a WOAT in this game and I’m really this close to losing it on her rn.

For the record Nimueh if you wish to avoid outing your identity, don't use phrases exclusively used by your main. There's only one scummer I know who uses that term, and knowing this I can confidently deduce you're town.

ngl i'm paranoid about succinct doing that to me here too

I'd aim to pocket Ank before you, respectfully.

Idk whether to be upset or disappointed that you don't understand how I approach the game yet

You do whatever you feel you need to.
I'm somewhat baffled you felt the need to act like my main.

Equally as baffling:

Low priority sorts:
Succinct

Knowing who I am and having me as a low-priority sort. I'd think I'd be your highest. However, speaking of 2570:

Townbin:
xRECKONERx

Since I've seen xRECKONERx content, this I can now agree on.

actually fuck flubber is town so i need to bump him way up and then figure out who else goes in the scumpile

Why.

(specifically, the indignation at not being spoonfed a game summary + the entirety of the case on flubb being 'meta')

To clarify, I needn't have a game summary to generate reads/content. However, I was specifically asked for thoughts on the gamestate; to give said feedback, I needed that info, and had desired that angle since replacing in.

Scum reading me bc "meta" and that's it.

My read's more complex than that. It's actually closer to this:

It's a gamestate read, his alignment holds a pretty big key to solving it I think. His actions indicate a scum agenda that I suspect is in play this game and him flipping scum would go a long way towards proving that.
It's a high information high scum equity lynch

2. NMSA got the overall town's eye and was pushed up to L-2 or L-1 with very little counterpushing other than Reck wanting to push lurkers
3. I replaced back in on this account (Branson is an alt of mine) and started scumming up on purpose to try to move the pressure around and to get more info to work with
4. At some point tris fakehammered (I think NMSA?). I started pushing Brigitte very shortly after this point (I'm still purposely scumming up at this point)
5. Tictac-slot gets somewhat wagoned as a lurker slot. It doesn't get too far iirc
6. Eventually Brigitte and I 1v1 and the wagon on her starts to take off from there. Note that a wagon on me was pretty much constant up to this point since I was on Branson.
7. tictac remains a wagon until Brigitte provokes Reck and he starts hard-pushing her
8. Replacement spam throughout this; lady angel flakes out and urap2 gets replaced at the same time not too long after the fakehammer I believe, tictac flakes a bit after that, then Enter leaves a bit after that
9. a tris counterwagon sprouts up when the Brigitte pressure starts to let up (primarily me backing off the push despite revoting her very shortly after unvoting)
10. When both are at L-3, we push the Brigitte wagon through
11. THE GAME DIES

This perfectly fits with scum letting town self-destruct.
Which I believe we have, given unfolding events.

If scum were influential in the events described, I'd expect there to be clear evidence, but those events all look like they originate from town.

I still don’t understand why you are even sr me at this point. I am not dping anything similar to what you have sr me before. All I do know if that your read on me is dead wrong here. If you flip me, you have to promise that you will never claimed to be able to accurately read me ever again. Deal?

Entirely regardless of Ank's case, this is just ridiculous. Even on the off chance that Nim is town, which I highly doubt, one misread doesn't mean you can never claim to read someone accurately again.

To wit, this is scum sitting on the sidelines, letting the fight play out without a meaningful contribution.

Skitter's new vote is even more bizarre than their previous one

As is this.

It was hard to notice given that the sun was still directly overhead, but many of the lights weren't working as well.

Votecount 1.4

NotMySpamAccount (5):

u r a person 2 5, tris 62, tictac 67, Brigitte 144, Enter 207

skitter30 (2):

Chara 69, Bronson 259

Brigitte (1):

NotMySpamAccount 198

Enter (1):

xRECKONERx 82

Not voting (4):

Nimueh, Ankamius, skitter30 190, Flubbernugget 258

With 13 alive, it’s 7 to lynch. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-08 00:58:59).

@Mod: This VC is incorrect; Lady Angel is still voting Brigitte at this point and you have my slot as voting skitter30 and not voting at the same time.

I'd also say the NMSA wagon was likely entirely town. There's a

small

outside chance Xtoxm's scum, but the other names're solidly town. In other words:

Interesting note A: The NMSA wagon gained steam and the amount of other 'wagons' drastically increased (and additionally the strength of wagons decreased) over time while NMSA was in the spotlight. This makes me think NMSA is town and scum are either helping push that wagon or looking to reduce the information gained from that flip.

I got the exact opposite impression; the other wagons're scum scrambling for a counterwagon to their scumbuddy.

Creature = Nimueh

>

skitter30 = Ankamius = xRECKONERx = Chara = tris

> Xtoxm > Elbirn > NotMySpamAccount

>

Flubbernugget

Where I'm at.

I think Succint/Enter may be town for this. I also liked his Creature read. Wrt NMSA I can’t help wondering if there’s some kind of Xtoxm/urap NMSA connection here. Wasn’t urap hard pushing NMSA before he barely even posted. then conveniently just backed off? If both of them are scum, Skitter’s scum equity also rises although I don’t really see a Skitter/NMSA connection but I can see either one partnered with Xtoxm/urap. I think Xtoxm/urap scumflip, means likely associatives with either Skitter or NMSA.

[Creature]

skitter + Xtoxm works?

[Nimueh]

I don't understand the skitter townread

I still want to vote her if she doesn’t answer my question satisfactorily. I don’t believe town!Skitter ever sr me for “overreacting” and you need to ISO me like Tris did.

[Creature]

Borrowing some of Succint's townreads:

I am town
Succint is town
Nimueh is town
Ankamius is town
Elbirn is town

[Nimueh]

skitter + Xtoxm works?

Urap2 being obvtown and chara sitting around null-scum make no sense in the same game

if this is directed at me i don't know why those don't make sense together
(and chara has gone up quite a bit in myreads, but that only happened recently)

They don't make sense together because both slots had the same habit of making a lot of interaction posts that look townie in a bubble but not from them were not able to generate good reads.

i read this a few times and i'm having trouble parsing what you're saying tbh. i *think* you're saying that you think they both made interaction posts that look townie but had awful reads so their interaction posts ought not to form the basis of the reads on them. is that right? i'm also not sure what you mean by interaction posts in this context actually

why do you think neither of them formed good reads?

urap's reads might not have been great (idk) but his thought process behidn them was incredibly townie
chara's readslists also weren't awesome but there were large swaths of the game where i was having trouble telling vibing with their thought process (or, at least, had trouble telling if they were having a genuine thought process), which made it hard for me to form a confident read on them

I wouldn't say it was incredibly townie, just a bit townie. It feels like you're trying to take advantage of game length and the replace-out to defend yourself by tring a general(?) townread.

it was incredibly townie, and it's a read i've had since like page30, or whenever it happened, so saying i'm giving a popular read just now to defend myself in the present is kinda silly, esepcially as i'm saying it when others are questioning their reads on the slot - if i'm trying to conform my read to others, as you're suggesting, now is not the right time to reaffirm my townread on him

[Creature]

About the rest, would be something like:

NMSA > Chara > xRECKONERx (null-line) > tris > Flubber > skitter > Xtoxm

[skitter30]

i'm around for a bit; catching up now