Open 753: Nomination Mafia [Game Over!]

[ejjinami]

Vote Count 2.12

Volxen:

(2) Vedith, Irrelephant11

Shoshin:

(2) DoubtingThomas, chennisden

Irrelephant11:

(1) Alonzo

Not Voting:

Auro, Fuscosco, Shoshin, scum reading, volxen

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-19 05:19:27)

[chennisden]

Spoiler:

I might rep out this game has been awful so far and I'm just going to get lynched first nomination phase anyway

I might rep out this game has been awful so far and I'm just going to get lynched first nomination phase anyway

You asked me to sign up for this game so I'll be really upset if you leave. Also, why are you running away from the challenge of not getting lynched on first nomination phase? Are you not up to it?

Oh, nice. RC's town, then. Good read on his part.

Hey Irrel, what's your read on SR?

I'm not lynching you today

If I have my way we kill

VOTE: Clemency

And btw the only reason you survive today is that I decide the aggravation of this shitty game isn't worth it

Have you finally decided to play according to your role?

Listen, if you present a case on Clemency, I’m willing to push with you. You seem town to me, if you play like this when you are scum, then props to you man, got balls

What do you make of Clemency's earlier vote on me, putting me at L-2 inspite of townreading me?
He seems to be riling RC up intentionally now - do you see town motivation for that?

Clemency is bad, agreed. DT, not sure. Wazoo, I got a bad vibe from initially but something he said later feels town to me.

Listen, if you present a case on Clemency, I’m willing to push with you. You seem town to me, if you play like this when you are scum, then props to you man, got balls

What do you make of Clemency's earlier vote on me, putting me at L-2 inspite of townreading me?
He seems to be riling RC up intentionally now - do you see town motivation for that?

Just because people have different reads, that doesn’t automatically make them scum.

I’ve seen a few games with clemency and he has his own style, I wouldn’t be eager to scum read clemency just based on his remark, even rc admitted he’s known for his charisma, can’t blame.

As for his L-2 on you, despite being weird about it, he stated it would be for pressuring. I’m fine with that, I believe getting information on you early on is good, because we can confirm both you and Volxen as town or one of you as scum, etc, since you guys know each other the most. If you guys were both scum and confirming each other as town, that would be unfortunate, that’s a relative low probability as well though.

Shoshin is scum

I have nothing further to say until I'm hammered.

I'm not scum, RC. I'm disappointed in you.

Big dump with a broken tag.

~fixed the first quote, ejj~

At this point town RC is buckling.

Potential reasons

Exhaustive tvt with DT or tvs.
Needle from clemency.
Ate from shosh

Aside from mentioning irrell, RC doesn't commit to a read... So far..

lol YOU ARE RC

[volxen]

I think we should hammer. volx made his points, and frankly he's already finger-gunned me so I have no qualms about voting him now to get a flip. let's continue the game. not like one if us will die tonight

@Fuscosco, What is the town motivation with this kind of post? You suggested hammering me

five days

before the deadline just because I self-voted. Why would you assume that I wanted to be hammered just because I self-voted? The scum motivation here obviously is to try and get me quickly hammered to prevent me from making further posts. Your reaction is definitely the worst (yes, pun intended if you are reading this TW, which I suspect you are since you read all of my games) reaction to my self-vote.

Also a bit curious that you said "he's already finger-gunned me so I have no qualms about voting him now to get a flip", considering out of {Shoshin, Irrelephant, Volxen}, Shoshin has by far been the most critical of your slot (calling you obvscum, etc.). And you've seemed so sure since the end of day one that I am town (at a point in time where it didn't even make sense for you to townread me), and now you're suddenly so eager to see my flip?

[Vedith]

So she are we lynching Volxen?

[Fuscosco]

yea, soshe.

Umm volx consider how annoying your slot is to me. if i did get off my ass and make a push on

you

id be dragged into a wallfight. ill pass. Ive already told you not to rope based on nomination composition, and you continue to put forward cases which hurt my survival because they are presented by what I do feel is town. You are a threat to me, and the one Id least like around in lylo.

[Fuscosco]

Like lol everyone talks a good game about 'town only should want to catch scum' but there is so much more to mafia than blind obedience to a wincon. you have to consider if a risk is worth it.

ex: is leaving volx alive worth the enjoyment of the game and chance he'll be around in lylo to fuck it up?

A:

No, not really.

[Fuscosco]

Also, lol Im more than happy to be an instructor at the school of hard knocks. IMA LEARN YOU BOI

[Fuscosco]

And before I hear it, A Push is me shoving you and seeing where you rattle.

i.e. what your fallacies are and what you need to work on. push isn't being used in the traditional MS sense.

[volxen]

@Fuscosco, let's assume for a moment that all of {Shoshin, Irrelephant, Volxen} are town, which I think is entirely possible considering I have Irrelephant as locktown, and he is "94% confident" that Shoshin is town. Aside from myself, Shoshin is hard scumreading you. Why do you assume you will be around in lylo? Regardless of who is nightkilled today, your slot is going to be under a whole lot of scrutiny on day 3, because you have objectively done a number of scummy things in this game.

[volxen]

@Vedith, I still don't understand why you are actually scumreading me. If you are voting for me because you think all of the nominees are town that's one thing. I made a case in previous posts why inserting myself into a {Volxen, Shoshin, Irrelephant} nomination list would present far more risk to scum!me than it would to either of scum!Irrelephant or scum!Shoshin. Aside from that, I think I've been fairly towny on day two. You played with me in Follow the Leader where we were both town, so you have an idea of what I do as town. You saw how towards the end of the game I somewhat pushed COA and Auro to a lesser extent, because I had Yellowsnow as locktown and thought that one of them was scum in the event that TTTT flipped green after we hammered him. I was ultimately wrong about that and TTTT did turn out to be scum, but I pushed on them because I didn't have either of them as locktown. Why are you scumreading me simply because I was critical of some of your posts, when you know that I do that as town? It's like you didn't even consider the possibility of me being town and wrong about you, you just jumped straight to a scumread based on that alone.

[Alonzo]

maybe scum!RC has too much respect for his scum game to be self voting and blatnatly not participating

but i think ur treatment on RC reeks of TMI nonsense

VOTE: shoshin

RC self-votes as both alignments when he's treated unfairly.

RC's propensity to self-destruct doesn't take away from the fact that he's very good at catching scum. Please don't dismiss him just because he self-voted.

They hurt me.

stop AtE'ing RC. I do think you are a fun player overall and really good player, at least from the quite a few games (now) that we played together.

I think you are playing differently to the past games that consisted of all town games from you here, so I pushed you. I am sorry you feel that it is dogshit, but it is my honest opinion.

Your AtE has gotten me to the point to untunnel you and push someone who is hypocritically attacking me over and over again without coming up with any valuable input into the game, though

Are you scum with DT, RC?

I now feel DT/Shoshin/RC are the same alignment
All the right paranoia about w/w interactions from DT and Shoshin at all the right times

Maybe scum is just Clem/SR/Wazoo? Or something thereabouts

I think irrell knows DT /RC /shosh it tvtvt.

Irrel and shosh can you both revisit the reads you gave around page 21(early 600s) and declare if those reads are ones you want pushed day two.?

[Alonzo]

Page 25 even

[volxen]

@Fuscosco, To completely ignore the nomination list and act as if nothing can be inferred from it is ridiculous. At a minimum, I think it's a very productive exercise to look at each nominee, and try to make reasonable deductions along the lines of "if nominee X is scum, what is there motivation in self-nominating? Would the rewards of self-nominating outweigh the risks from their pov?" Because there are definitely people who are more likely to self-nominate as scum compared to others, because some people would be facing a lot of risk if they self-nominated as scum. Of course we have look at more than "Would player X self-nominate as scum", because the real question is "Would player X self-nominate themselves against players Y and Z as scum". For example, I explained in previous posts that there is some degree of risk for all of {Volxen, Irrelephant, Shoshin} to self-nominate as scum, with Shoshin having the least risk from my point of view. But because I now have Irrelephant as locktown, and he seems to mostly be convinced that Shoshin is town, there is a good chance that all three of us are town. Which makes sense if Shoshin's belief that the entire scumteam is among {Fuscosco, DoubtingThomas, Clemency, Vedith} is true, because it would be highly risky for any of those four to self-nominate.

So if we can be reasonably confident that none of us would self-nominate, especially against each other, then that means that there is a high likelihood that the two surviving nominees are town, which narrows down the pool for finding scum. So it's not a pointless exercise to use the nomination list to try and sort people, especially if we can confirm people as town with reasonable confidence based on it being too risky for them to self-nominate as scum, especially when there is a good chance that they wouldn't be able to get one of the other two nominees nightkilled.

[chennisden]

Like lol everyone talks a good game about 'town only should want to catch scum' but there is so much more to mafia than blind obedience to a wincon. you have to consider if a risk is worth it.

ex: is leaving volx alive worth the enjoyment of the game and chance he'll be around in lylo to fuck it up?

A:

No, not really.

He's blatantly pushing policy at this point.

[chennisden]

You’re scum reading RC? Anybody would know that after his lynch and his replacement, he is conftown. He was mad that wazoo being a bad townie and so he repped out, it should be obvious. I agree I’m scummy, I’m not as active, mainly because the game is being held hostage at the moment, I can’t push my scum reads because they’re not nominated. For me everyone here is town, there’s no reason for any scum player on that nomination to place themselves in such a dangerous and risky spot. All of them have brains and I don’t see them being that cocky to risk a scum lynch. I told them to figure out who wanted to sacrifice, but they keep on accusing each other while also town reading each other, which is crazy. I’m just waiting for them to decide on a lynch so I can push real scum. As for my activity, shoshin + rc + irrel are enough to fill up 60 pages day one, if I hopped in, this would’ve been like 100 pages. I am usually active as hell when nobody is speaking so I can get things started, but there’s no reason to with 3 people that are posting 10 times more than I would if I played like I usually do.

As for scum reads, {Chennisden, DT} Chennisden because he’s clem’s replacement and he was horrible on that auro vote as well as the RC push. DT because he went from a super active player to now popping in at random times, basically just shooting for a participation trophy. I do believe this lack of activity comes also from his feud with RC and he wants to slip under the radar after accusing a slot that eventually became conftown.

Vedith, get your reads up, they are yikes

oh ty for scumreading me based off of my slot

tbh i scumread this slot when i first read through his ISO; i prefer scum but was disappointed with town

Also, more importantly, you can push your scumreads during Nomination Day.

[chennisden]

You can't get them lynched today but you can help contribute to it tomorrow. So saying that you can't push is false.

[volxen]

The overall point being that it's extremely unlikely for more than one nominee to ever be scum, so if a nominee is nightkilled and flips red, the other two surviving nominees are almost certainly town. If the nightkilled nominee flips green, at least one of the surviving two nominees is almost certainly town. But beyond that, someone on the scumteam is only ever going to self-nominate if they can reasonably come to the conclusion that the rewards of doing so greatly outweigh the risks. If that isn't the case, then that means that all three of the nominees are town. If scum continues to nominate only townies on each even-numbered day phase because it's too risky for any of them to self-nominate, then it becomes easier and easier to weed out the scum via POE.

[Fuscosco]

@Fuscosco, let's assume for a moment that all of {Shoshin, Irrelephant, Volxen} are town, which I think is entirely possible considering I have Irrelephant as locktown, and he is "94% confident" that Shoshin is town. Aside from myself, Shoshin is hard scumreading you. Why do you assume you will be around in lylo? Regardless of who is nightkilled today, your slot is going to be under a whole lot of scrutiny on day 3, because you have objectively done a number of scummy things in this game.

why am i around lylo?

because, town or scum, Im that good.

[Fuscosco]

i mean, an easy target? yes.

an easy lynch? no.

Hunt off me, hunt with me.

[Alonzo]

Spoiler:

Damn, with all this confusion, I’ll keep in check people that are active lurking. Fus, can you post some reads? By the way, can we get over the rc theatre and try to scum hunt and not engage in stupid conversations, thanks

Damn, with all this confusion, I’ll keep in check people that are active lurking. Fus, can you post some reads? By the way, can we get over the rc theatre and try to scum hunt and not engage in stupid conversations, thanks

This looks like active lurking.

Call it lurking or trying to look for clues with this clogged thread that legit has no information except that RC is being extra AtE and not helping town. I asked if he finally decided to play his role but it seems like he doesn’t know how his role should be played. I’m asking fus of reads because i townread him by the way, and given this whole theatre, I want to see his view on it and the people that are likely to be scum.

On the contrary, I believe a few scums were quite active

Someone who townreads SR, please make a towncase. The slot feels overly self-conscious

And his scumhunting is super mechanical. Do you at any point feel like he's tried to sort me or RC?

Still tr Sr.

What about demonlord

So I'm up to here, RN I can't understand why RC is townreading scum reading.

The series of posts( I think) I linked from Sr fit very much into what I'd class as the scum hiding in the wake of a situation.

[Fuscosco]

but dont mind me, im a drinky snek rn.

[Fuscosco]

Scum Reading is scum. We all know this.

[volxen]

@Fuscosco, Who do you

actually

think is scum? You seem to want me gone but yet you think I'm town. Should I take that to mean that you strongly townread all three of {Volxen, Irrelephant, Shoshin}?

[Fuscosco]

I think the only people who could be scum in today's lynch is shoshin and volx, and then not really.

[Vedith]

@Vedith, I still don't understand why you are actually scumreading me.

I can't remember.