Mini 2065 - Access Point [Endgame]

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #25 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:36 pm

Do you understand how this setup works?

DrDolittle · Post Post #26 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:36 pm

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #27 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:37 pm

In post 23, DrDolittle wrote:Even as Ic it's much stronger when activated. So giving the second vig that power to decide when to out himself is much betbettbetbettebetbettbetbetter for town

How towny he is is literally fucking irrelevant since he cannot he sent to access point. Outside of reads he is a non-entity in terms of how we win the game and we get more out of their reads knowing their alignment. We're deciding on both of the relevant access points D1 anyway

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #28 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:41 pm

and as an aside treating the second 'dayvig target' as confirmed scum and ignoring them is a strictly better play than actually shooting a second time after town has been shot.

DrDolittle · Post Post #29 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:41 pm

It's relevant in baiting the NK. I think out fundamental disagreement is that you think you'll nab the team to the access point day 1 while i think we should pick members a day at a time

DrDolittle · Post Post #30 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:42 pm

In post 28, RadiantCowbells wrote:and as an aside treating the second 'dayvig target' as confirmed scum and ignoring them is a strictly better play than actually shooting a second time after town has been shot.

We agree on this front

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #31 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:43 pm

In post 29, DrDolittle wrote:It's relevant in baiting the NK. I think out fundamental disagreement is that you think you'll nab the team to the access point day 1 while i think we should pick members a day at a time

no.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #32 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:43 pm

day vigs claim please.

DrDolittle · Post Post #33 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:43 pm

Trivially yes. Since day 2 we have more information than day 1

DrDolittle · Post Post #34 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:44 pm

And that's how the game will be played despite you not seeing it

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #35 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:44 pm

the only 'more information' we have is that scum kill someone who is universally townread. we don't get an access point flip even. so, no.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #36 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:46 pm

DDL being wrong is pretty standard for you but I'm not used to you obstinately standing in the way of the correct play. Do you think that your understanding of mafia strategy is better than mine? Do you think that my suggestion is scum motivated?

Why do this?

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #37 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:49 pm

In post 75, DrDolittle wrote:after playing with power-town players like RC I realize that if nightless scum doesn't have some form of kill, then their win rate will be low, and their experience painful. however the good thing is there's usually only 1 or 2 people like RC in a game, so too many kills is not needed

(inb4 RC gets mad at me for treating him like an object... it's a sign of respect ok)

in fact using your own words: deciding the game before scum have had the ability to nightkill a strong player is pretty fucking gamebreaking. the dance game was lost because me/ank got nightkilled with the 1 nightkilled.
so, it seems to me like you're trying to play to what you think scum win condition is. why?

DrDolittle · Post Post #38 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:51 pm

Let's say day 1 we agree on drdo and rc being town. We send drdo. Day 2 Rc is still alive. Then we need to have a conversation about sending rc. Yeah agree my reads are wrong is pretty standard, but I think i have a relatively good grasp of mechanics

DrDolittle · Post Post #39 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:53 pm

Not sure if these two cases directly translate, rc

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #40 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:54 pm

we don't get lynch flips. the only new information that we get is that someone who we were already universally townreading is town.
if we're not formally mapping out our townreads d1, we're hurting the ability for the 1 person scum most wanted dead to influence the game in the future. if we are, whichever of our 3 townreads gets killed doesn't matter.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #41 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:58 pm

this is how we're doing it. the dance game was lost because town wouldn't let me set up pairings or lynch orders and they lynched wrong. i don't trust you guys not to lynch wrong whether i get access pointed or nightkilled.
sorry if you don't like it but I am here to play to win and I'm not letting the ability to influence the game be taken out of my hands, particularly when it doesn't even infringe upon everyone's individual ability to play the game.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #42 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:59 pm

i'm not saying RC dictates these 3 people go to town. i am saying that we as a collective hash that out. but we decide it today and we get as many confirmed town voices involved in that discussion.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #43 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:49 pm

great start so far gjgj

DrDolittle · Post Post #44 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:58 pm

your argument hinges upon there being no drawbacks in locking down who to send to the access point asap. this is strongly conditional that the 3 people picked have no mafia in there.

instead if town locks down one person a day, in addition to be information advantage (however little it is) it will be much harder for mafia to figure out who to nk and which way town will swing the next day. (whereas if your 3 pick is wrong, then it's very easy for mafia to determine who to kill) It also gives town flexibility moving forward.

the drawback however, is that mafia share of the alive population is increased when making day 2 decision. but that's just marginal.

now I'm not advocating that we just pick a guy and dilly our thumbs and do nothing, but I don't think that locking down three players by day 1 is the correct play.

DrDolittle · Post Post #45 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:00 pm

then you ask, well drdo, why does this matter at all?

well it matters in that given your strategy, vigs out themselves immediately. Given mine, vigs don't. They out themselves if they are pretty town AND the one being sent to the access point OR they/town wants them to do the "is this push scum motivated" check.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #46 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:01 pm

we're doing things my way. if I have to keep fighting you to make that happen I'm just treating your slot like scum the rest of the game and ignoring you.

DrDolittle · Post Post #47 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:02 pm

I do agree that your quickhammer thing is a cause for concern. but that's pretty easy to solve. Instead of voting, town can just fos until a majority decision, then the majority'd guy says, hey no, I'm vig.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #48 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:02 pm

In post 46, RadiantCowbells wrote:we're doing things my way. if I have to keep fighting you to make that happen I'm just treating your slot like scum the rest of the game and ignoring you.

take the rest of the day, since no one is posting, and decide if this is worth fighting me over.

DrDolittle · Post Post #49 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:03 pm

In post 46, RadiantCowbells wrote:we're doing things my way. if I have to keep fighting you to make that happen I'm just treating your slot like scum the rest of the game and ignoring you.

its not even up to you to decide. it's up to the vig whether they want to out themsevles.

I'm just laying out the available options as guidance. people are free to take or ignore.