Fire on the Mountain [Over]

[Shoshin]

Do you want to Hydra with me for the next BoP?

If you're town this game, no. Lynching me here is a travesty.

[Dannflor]

I don't make cases, Dann. Remember Suka? That was me.

Oh, interesting. Hm

I don't have any energy for this game because it doesn't matter what I say or do, everyone's always just going to sheep PR.

He's given you opportunities to be involved. Aside from yourself, do you think his read/approach on the game is wildly off?

shoshin if we gave you complete control over the next two lynches who would they be?

Do you have an answer to this?

[Shoshin]

Enter's obvtown. The fact he waited to see my flip in BoP says it all.

[Prince of Renais]

Do you want to Hydra with me for the next BoP?

If you're town this game, no. Lynching me here is a travesty.

I'd like to believe that you don't make this post as town.

[Shoshin]

I'd like to believe you don't lynch me when I'm town.

[Shoshin]

Of course, we can't always believe what we like when reality confronts us with the opposite.

[Prince of Renais]

Do you want to both replace out and talk about this

[Dannflor]

Please don't either of you

[Dannflor]

Okay, I looked through some of Grapes games. I understand the wagon now.

VOTE: Grapes

Shoshin, can you tell me why you needed to look through some of Grapes games to understand the wagon? Did you really believe his meta was a major factor behind the wagon?

Sorry for interrogating you right now especially if you're energy levels are low, but I need this and if you're town I really need this

[Dannflor]

If Lycan's town, Clem's scum. Don't think that needs explanation.

Is this because you believe one of the last votes on the Grapes wagon has to be scum? I'm dumb and might need an explanation

[Shoshin]

Okay, I looked through some of Grapes games. I understand the wagon now.

VOTE: Grapes

Shoshin, can you tell me why you needed to look through some of Grapes games to understand the wagon? Did you really believe his meta was a major factor behind the wagon?

Sorry for interrogating you right now especially if you're energy levels are low, but I need this and if you're town I really need this

I've never played with Grapes before and I thought the wagon was mostly because Grapes was playing like lynchbait. Grapes kept pushing for an answer to his dumb question, and I kept telling him it was already answered, and he kept pushing. From my perspective, that continued push felt more town than Lycan/Clem, so I suggested lynching among those two over Grapes.

Then Grapes wagon became more of a thing, so I figured I should check his games.

I read his games.

It turns out Grapes is obvscum when he's scum, because there's a truly remarkable difference in his town games and scum games. It's like night & day. Whoever said Grapes is obvtown wasn't kidding.

And so I voted Grapes.

That's all there is to this. It was me going from viewing Grapes as lynchbait based on no meta knowledge to seeing Grapes as obvscum after reading his games.

The wagon itself was whatever from the start, just another typical RC-led wagon that might lead to a lynch, might not.

[Jingle]

FWIW, the frustration here is real. It's something I'm actually good at catching. The problem is that it's NAI.

Scum shoshin feels demotivated because she's coming out of a scumloss into a losing situation and feels like there's nothing she can do.
Town shoshin feels demotivated because she just lost a game and feels like she has no way to influence this one because it seems people have already made up their minds.

It's a particularly difficult form of ATE to deal with for me because I KNOW it's genuine, and more to the point I'm mostly lynching Shoshin because it's easy. There's a town explanation to everything I think is slightly scum indicative here. The read on her is similar to the slight scum read I had for the first half of her play in RC's Upick.

But I'm still voting her. I'm voting her because I think that even if she's town, clarification on the original interactions is valuable. Despite being unsure here, I think it is the right lynch. And I'm sorry that I think that, but I'm not going to back down from it.

[Vedith]

I like Dann trying to just push focus back into solving.
Dann town \o/

[Jingle]

If Lycan's town, Clem's scum. Don't think that needs explanation.

Can't remember much of either, tbh, but in a vacuum I lynch clem first.

[Shoshin]

If Lycan's town, Clem's scum. Don't think that needs explanation.

Is this because you believe one of the last votes on the Grapes wagon has to be scum? I'm dumb and might need an explanation

Yes, it's fairly obvious that scum knew Grapes was going down after I voted him. This isn't rocket science. Scum know that influential townies are voting Grapes together, and then they see town me go from lightly defending Grapes to voting him on meta. There's no coming back from that from a scum perspective. That's the point at which they bus.

At least one of Lycan/Clem is scum.

And they're scum via behavior anyway, given Clem's lurking and Lycan's shit play.

[Dannflor]

Vedith's town because he's defending me, period. There's no reason for scum to defend me here. And maybe Vedith isn't town, I don't know, but I'm not lynching him today because at least he's doing the pro-town thing of trying to keep me alive.

I agree with the DDL point, but I'm not following this. If you're a lynch that's probably going through anyway, as you've said yourself, Vedith loses nothing by defending you. If he's scum and you're town then he would already know this is a mislynch and is just setting himself up to not be associated with it. Plus he gets the added bonus of pocketing you since we'll be more likely to sheep your reads after a green flip.

Is scum defending you harmful here? I'd probably expect them to, or at least to feign hesitation.

[Shoshin]

Why would you ever lynch me just because it's easy, Jingle? What the fuck?

I'm the person you leave alive because if I'm town I'm very likely going to vote scum before LYLO.

Every game you've been in with me, what has happened? People call me scum, and then I vote the scum before my time of lynching, and then scum lose. Why would you get rid of me before I even have a chance?

[Shoshin]

Maybe Vedith's scum, I don't know, Dann. I'm telling you that from my perspective I'm not going to start biting the hand that feeds me until I flip my strongest scumreads.

[Vedith]

Dann stop making me look bad!

[Shoshin]

If Lycan's town, Clem's scum. Don't think that needs explanation.

Can't remember much of either, tbh, but in a vacuum I lynch clem first.

You don't remember them because they're playing the way scum tend to play, by contributing nothing at all to the town's ability to win.

and you can say I haven't done anything, as you already did at some point, but that'd just untrue. I've been a focus of attention since the start of the game, and you definitely remember what I've said/done this game.

[Prince of Renais]

If this is worth it to Shoshin then I'll take the loss and never talk to her again.

VOTE: lycanfire

[Dannflor]

FWIW, the frustration here is real. It's something I'm actually good at catching. The problem is that it's NAI.

Yea, that's my problem here too. But I'm trying not to let it interfere with my reads because I'm very susceptible to AtE which is a weakness of mine.

I don't think this should be a lynch we just push through out of apathy though or because it's easy. If this is the lynch today we have to talk about it or we aren't actually going to gain as much as you hope from the flip. I think this situation is delicate enough that scum could slip up very easily here regardless of Shoshin's alignment. Likely, scum isn't posting much at all right now and is just hoping the lynch goes through so they can hide under the radar.

[Shoshin]

But I'm still voting her. I'm voting her because I think that even if she's town, clarification on the original interactions is valuable. Despite being unsure here, I think it is the right lynch. And I'm sorry that I think that, but I'm not going to back down from it.

VOTE: Jingle

PR, lynch this. Making the argument that it's worth lynching me even if I'm town isn't ever something that town Jingle says about me.

[Dannflor]

Dann stop making me look bad!

Sorry buddy

You might not be scum!

I just can't town read you yet

[Shoshin]

If this is worth it to Shoshin then I'll take the loss and never talk to her again.

VOTE: lycanfire

Is Lycan town or scum? Everyone in this game has made me feel like I'm crazy for thinking he's scum. Am I crazy?