Fire on the Mountain [Over]

[Reiuji Utsuho]

Oh by the way

You tell me. Am I?

I actually want this answered.

[Dannflor]

Spoiler: relevant end of Jingle's ISO from no deadlines

Alternatively, people on edge are particularly easy to read.

I'm not saying there aren't reasons to scumread her. I'm saying that I'm not convinced she's scum because of those reasons.

3007 is the best post about why mastina could be scum so far though, so...

Stop. Hammer time.

VOTE: mastina

The additional time would cause more apathy and disengagement than it would have solved.

Nearly everyone had her at obvtown - until she flipped.

which should ring bells for you when everyone and their cat wants to lynch her here

not true at all this lynch was WAY harder than it should have been
almost everyone not on the wagon was hard opposed to it
i think the only possible extra vte we could have got is wagon
everyone else was intent on disabling this lynch

Narp.

I honestly don't see Enter/Stina scumteam. The Chainsaw is too obvious. Could be either or neither, but not both.

Hebichan is another slot I’m good at reading and I see no reason to scumread that slot. Mastina is just that good at fooling people. ISO her in RC uPick game, if you don’t believe me. Nearly everyone had her at obvtown - until she flipped.

Bad example.

Why? Everyone obvtownread her, except for her scumpal Nico, that is.

Nope?

JJh and I spent literally PAGES of mechanical discussion preventing her lynch from the moment I stepped into the game. It was mechanically optimal not to lynch her, and there were still a bunch of people (Fire, Varsoon, Invis, Mememen etc) who wanted to lynch her. Even the people who were townreading her were mostly doing so because the play of clearing a bunch of townies just didn't make sense for scum to do. I literally derailed wagons on her on consecutive days. She was not "obvtown" by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, go ahead and list the people who opposed the mastina lynch. I'll help. Jingle, Wisdom, Sheep. Yup, a third of the 'resistance' to the lynch was the hammer.

Enter kind of did at the end when I'd already made it clear I was proanything but a townread and was arguing against the lynch largely to point out that the stances of the people on the wagon itself were garbage. Brie and Wagon were both outright support. Koki wants the day to end by any means necessary. BNL and vax were on a better wagon, but neither seemed especially against the mastina lynch. Vonflare and light haven't done shit in days, and thus can't be said to have been against the wagon that popped up since they've been disconnected. And PB... Has done literally fuckall since I stopped pushing that read.

Compared to the Ausuka lynch, the sheep lynch, the PB lynch, the Dannflor lynch (that had the passive support of pretty much everyone), the mastina lynch was easy as fuck to get through.

VOTE: Mastina

This, btw, is the second vote on Mastina. 5 days ago. A sixth of the day phase. Prior to that, X was voting her but not attempting to push the wagon because he didn't think it would go anywhere. Dannflor replaced in, his wagon fell apart, and mastina died. In quick succession. I was the ONLY real pushback to the lynch. Wisdom was largely absent while it happened. Sheep was largely absent while it happened. And even I wasn't townreading her, just aware that the cases on her were completely NAI. Which... is something I pointed out. Many times.

It's rather important that we keep what actually happened in mind here, because there's a lot of shit floating around that just isn't true.

Also, I have a feeling I'm gonna die tonight because obvtown AF and not letting narratives about the game stand, so all I have to say is look back at profii and CT. They were probably killed for reads accuracy.

So, yes, you did hammer Mastina despite believing she wasn't the best lynch.

However, my problem with comparing this game to that one is that despite not wanting to try hard on your (correct) reads, you still didn't let "narratives about the game stand." Like, despite your apathy you did end up being a NK and I don't see your play drawing one here.

I would expect the same Jingle from that game to push me more? Like I understand you aren't going to put up a fight against PR or Shoshin or whatever, but in no deadlines you still constantly stated how I was prob scum AND said the Mastina lynch was stupid with many bad votes. Here, you aren't doing as much of that analysis. Maybe you're just

more

apathetic here, but in that game you didn't really truly "give up" until you had to hammer.

[Shoshin]

I can't answer without you answering my question first, Reiuji.

[Dannflor]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=79020 - Only Tryhard post lynch
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=78019 - Not even a real game
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77108 - Broke a setup, should have won after Eragon and thor pushed me into giving a shit by assuming bad math, but the conftown failed to hammer, halving our EV and forcing the tie
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77420 - about a third of my posts here (and in the mason thread) were demands that the mod flip me as Queen Latifah
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=76002 - I spent maybe two pages cementing bad associatives then laid down and died because scum had the game in the bag.







https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78228 - Tryhard in doomed slot
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78023 - Tryhardish, but I kinda just gave up on pushing scum reads and hammered a townread for game tempo reasons
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=77903 - Tryhard, also fuck playing against shoshin, nsg and relly in a nightless
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77055 - Mixed bag. Tryhard mechanically, but I straight up didn't give a shit as soon as the game looked over. (Read: mechanical 1v1 with the last scum). Proven by the fact that I didn't even double check who submitted an action when and thought I was in an additional 1v1 with Beavis and Butthead avvy guy whose name escapes me. Starts with a V I think.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76181 - Another mixed bag. I was supposed to low effort this game, but I spent a lot of time fighting RC. And then got shot when I paid enough attention to actually be useful the night after investigative RC got shot. This is half of the reason I didn't /in for this when asked by Ali, btw, although this game tells me me and RC can not be dicks to each other, so I'm not going to avoid games with him.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=74422 - I tryharded the shit out of D1. And led three consecutive town lynches. Unfortunately, I was town.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=76042 - I tryharded the shit out of this whole game and would have won if Ank didn't replace lynchbait and RNG didn't hate me.


There, every game Jingle played in on the first page of my bookmarks tab.

Thank you, I need to go eat but I'll look at some of these later this afternoon

[mcqueen]

been sick the past few days:/

I’ll catch up by tomorrow hopefully

Sorry guys

[Jingle]

Arbitrary Townreads for at least another day:
Reiuji Utsuho
Karmeleon
mcqueen

Actual Townreads:
Prince of Renais
Alisae
Extrapolated Eagle

Scumreads:
DrDolittle
Dannflor

Fuckit, who cares:
Shoshin
NerfedBuJ
Lycanfire
Clemency
Vedith
Xtoxm
Gamma Emerald

Top of each group stronger, roughly.

Still fairly accurate. I feel like I might be paranoia-ing about Dann, but he's definitely not townbin.

[Alisae]

VOTE: Jingle

[Jingle]

I'd skip fallout. It got pretty toxic.

Oh, also I was Impossibear in that one.

[Vedith]

been sick the past few days:/

Glad you feel better \O/

[Jingle]

<3 Ali.

[Shoshin]

Arbitrary Townreads for at least another day:
Reiuji Utsuho
Karmeleon
mcqueen

Actual Townreads:
Prince of Renais
Alisae
Extrapolated Eagle

Scumreads:
DrDolittle
Dannflor

Fuckit, who cares:
Shoshin
NerfedBuJ
Lycanfire
Clemency
Vedith
Xtoxm
Gamma Emerald

Top of each group stronger, roughly.

Still fairly accurate. I feel like I might be paranoia-ing about Dann, but he's definitely not townbin.

These should be changing quite dramatically after the last few pages. Please update.

[Reiuji Utsuho]

I can't answer without you answering my question first, Reiuji.

Ok I am the pinnacle of towniness in this game, more than this random silly guy with a worst pair of sunglesses I have ever seen in my life, and I am

absolutely appalled

that you doubted that for even a split second, if you are town.

[Jingle]

I honestly don't think it should. I'm waffling a bit on Vedith, and I feel like I should have a strong read there, but I don't. I'd vaguely put him as town atm, but in the end it's not really strong enough to matter.

I've explained why I think you could go both ways.

Lycan, Clem and GE have done fuckall.

Buj is another that I feel like I should have a read on, but don't.

None of my townreads have weakened.

If you feel I need to change the list, Dann would be in a category somewhere between scum and fuckit, and Vedith would be in a category somewhere between fuckit and town.

[Dannflor]

What are the chances everyone who has posted in the last several pages is town imploding on itself and scum have lurked out of the game/are hoping we destroy ourselves?

[Reiuji Utsuho]

What are the chances everyone who has posted in the last several pages is town imploding on itself and scum have lurked out of the game/are hoping we destroy ourselves?

We can't tell until this clusterfuck contiunes for at least 15 pages with the rate of 3 pages/hour minimum.

[Shoshin]

Why is Dann scum, Jingle?

[Dannflor]

If Shoshin is town --- no reason for scum to interfere, it looks like it'll be a quick lynch, either get on the wagon or lurk till it goes through

If Shoshin is scum --- eh it gets more complicated here probably, scum might try to do a variety of things out of desperation

[Reiuji Utsuho]

Why is Dann scum, Jingle?

You owe me an answer.

[Jingle]

Full disclosure, I have no idea why we lynched grapes.

Even before I caught up with the game, I would have lynched him just for #1353.

In this post he:

- Forces an awkward transition from Buj to Eagle

- Gives unsubstantiated town reads to three of the people pushing him

- Ignores the

actual

worst vote on his own wagon

#####

Side note: If anyone still didn't think Jingle was obv town the above post should convince you. Scum would be milking all the town cred they could get out of being on their buddy's wagon, especially considering this game has 3 scum and one of them dropped Day 1. Scums are in a bad spot. If a scum bussed here (which I think is possible), they did so to set themselves up in a better position later. Jingle is actively working against this scum win condition.

Scum post.

Your catchup and the subsequent townreads mirrors No deadlines almost perfectly.
You scumcased the dead player, did not vote the dead player, and then said that scum on the dead player's wagon would probably grab for towncred by explaining their reads as opposed to sheeping.
You handwaved the bit about DDL by saying Vedith was doing the same thing then deciding Vedith was town after Karm weighed in without actually addressing the bit about DDL.
You seem overconcerned about how people see you.

A hint: engaging me over you isn't a good way to get me to change my read. Engaging me over not you might work though.

[Jingle]

Basically, I disagree with townreading a player who is clearly capable of faking a gamesolvey catchup, 1478 has a clear scum motivation, he's more concerned with his self image than I would expect from town Dann given my impression of his character (No, I'm not going to do the meta dive required to check), he has bad associatives with DDL.

[Jingle]

What are the chances everyone who has posted in the last several pages is town imploding on itself and scum have lurked out of the game/are hoping we destroy ourselves?

VERY confident there is at most 1 scum in the active posters.

Shoshin/You isn't S/S
Shoshin/Vedith isn't S/S
You/Vedith isn't S/S

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I literally do not feel good after reading the past few pages.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I feel like something is definitely wrong in these interactions in past few pages.
I can't pinpoint which and why.

Like, something just felt very unnatural.

[Reiuji Utsuho]

Shoshin/You isn't S/S

I disagree with this statement in terms of probability.

[Shoshin]

About your alignment, Reiuji? I don't know. I had you as locktown until you started encouraging my lynch even if I'm town. And then it got worse when you asked me this stupid question when I'm obviously unsure what to think about your recent posts. And then it got doubly worse when you tried shaming me into townreading you. So I'm very uncertain right now.