Spoiler:
In post 21, DoubtingThomas wrote:I think akagami has good town cred for not voting despitr having like 4 ppl vote before them and itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf
In post 72, DoubtingThomas wrote:I already explained it.In post 33, volxen wrote:Akagami wasn’t even supposed to post, since he was replaced by Roo (who did place an RVS vote). Nonetheless, why do you think Akagami’s slot deserves town credit for posting but not placing an RVS vote? Voting during the early game/RVS helps to move the game forward by generating discussion and allowing us to see how people respond to votes/pressure, and we ultimately have to lynch scum to win, so voting is a pro-town action. Just popping in to say “hi” doesn’t help to move the game forward. And why make the comment that “itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf”? Most people (regardless of alignment) vote for someone during RVS.In post 21, DoubtingThomas wrote:I think akagami has good town cred for not voting despitr having like 4 ppl vote before them and itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf
He didn't vote when 4 people in front of him did.
As a wolf, your mindset naturally tends to be "I want to assimilate with the crowd (towns people who are not on your team)"
You see 4 people vote in front of you, you maythinkit's more natural to vote with them
the dude didn't
i think that comes from a townie mindset that wants to focus on themselves rather than be fake and "look" like they are townie
In post 186, DoubtingThomas wrote:I am going to be very honest with you, and this will probably seem very egotistical/over-confident and you will probably hate it and maybe use those personal feelings to scum read me but whateverIn post 180, hearthstone1235 wrote:@DoubtingThomas
Assuming you were another player in the game, would you scumread Doubtingthomas?
Would be nice if you addressed this:Also, how about you? What are your thoughts on the game so far? What do you think of Roo and Volxen in particular?
Doubting Thomas is asking very general questions rather than pointed ones, that seems like being active lurking. I mean, there is a difference between asking someone what they think of the gamestate and what they think of a specific slot or a specific post. I feel like we are at the point where the questions should be specific rather than general. The questions just seem too easy.
I am also going to be telling you the 100% truth and giving you this answer pretending I am another player who is completely aware of how DoubtingThomas works (well, because I am DoubtingThomas)
No, I won't for several reasons
Well, first, what brass has pointed out is very true. Asking 'general' question is an easy way for scums to make themselvesLOOKlike they are trying to solve. Brass makes an extremely good point that such questions are often >rand wolf for people, especially newer players.
He mentions also that asking "pin pointed" questions are beter than general questions. This is true. However, what he forgets is that good wolves will do townie things. Bad towns will do scummy things.
I am a pretty good wolf. Compared to my town game, I am a really good wolf. I have a pretty good win record as wolf (6-2? ish) and I have almost never been mislynched as a wolf (although I have been n1 vigged by towns two times by people who know my meta well)
The point brass is making is pretty good, and can generally be considered as kind of a "rule of thumb" especially in a newbie game like this one
But at the same time, if werewolf games were that easy, we won't have any good players right? Towns have done really dumb/anti-town things all the time. To the point where it is better for some of them to just kinda be policy lynched for being so bad.
I think I am going nowhere this pep talk. I have an issue always just rambling and talking abotu random shit that is unnecessary and that's why I don't do well in my job interviews.
Anyways, the point being, what Brass said is true to some extent. But it is not a good tell to one of the more experienced players.
Now let's go back to what I personally think about DT based on what I know.
DT has 9000 posts in a different website called Mafia Universe where he created the account mid-July of 2018. On record, he has about ~55 games played. A lot of them are turbos (which are very short 18min/6min mini games) and loves to play on 12hours/12hours phases or at the most 36/12hours phases. He subbed out of a lot of games on mafia scum when he joined a bunch couple months ago because the week long phases just was too much/boring for DT who likes to post a shitton
Given that, I think DT's overall performance here has been underwhelming for sure. However, I also know that DTLOVESto wolf. He loves to town too, but loves to wolf a lot more. He is also a far better wolf than town. What Brass has commented which is definitely lackluster of DT is never really a wolf tell for him. Rather, personally, I think it makes DT >rand town because he will high post and generate content as both alignment, quite frankly, but he will never be caught as a wolf for not really doing anything or trying to act fakely townie
DT will do what he does as town as a wolf. The questions he asks, the comments he make, the shitposts he writes, and the pushes he commits always come from the fact that he trulyBELIEVESin (as a town) that or KNOWS THAT HE WILL BELIEVE it if he were town (as a wolf)
DT not posting any reads/pushes at the moment is slightly ping-y, but I am a little confused because he would have no problem just pushing people who are scummy or even if they are not scummy to see their reaction. His low content is also negative for town so I think he should start stepping his game up and start posting a lot more to carry town to the win.
Right now, I personally would list DT at "very slight scum lean" for low efforting, but secretly know that that is non alignment indicative for him and is only putting him at scum lean to see his reaction. He is a very omgus-y type of a player so that will generate reaction frmo him which will help you learn his alignment
Tl;dr If I am not DT but I know DT's meta and history, I would put him at very slight scum lean to generate reaction to help myself understand his alignment a little more while keeping in mind he is actually null. I would be slightly annoyed that he is not playing to his usual self because no matter what that is that is negative for town and hope that he will start playing. As of now, he isn't one of my main scum suspects tbh
In post 207, DoubtingThomas wrote:I think this post is extremely bad in a scummy wayIn post 191, brassherald wrote:Are you talking about yourself in the third person and reading yourself.In post 186, DoubtingThomas wrote:
Tl;dr If I am not DT but I know DT's meta and history, I would put him at very slight scum lean to generate reaction to help myself understand his alignment a little more while keeping in mind he is actually null. I would be slightly annoyed that he is not playing to his usual self because no matter what that is that is negative for town and hope that he will start playing. As of now, he isn't one of my main scum suspects tbh
This is why I also hate walls, if you can say something in fewer words, say it that way, this post in general is too hard to follow and I have no clue what you are trying to say.
First problemHe attacks the post which was merely an ANSWER to another player's question
Second problemI see really no point of making this post at all.
He's asking a very simple question that can be kinda inferred to (that I made this post in a third person way) but also at the same time, the question itself doesn't contribute to ANY scum hunting at all. The answer to whether or not I wrote the post in a third person does not help brass know my alignment at all.
Third problemThen he goes on to attack my post in a way that's NAI and kinda pointless to point out. That "he hates walls" again which is his opinion, and he is free to express it. However, by expressing this opinion along with a pointless question he asked above, he is literally contributing nothing to the thread but still commenting on a post which was not directed towards him at all.
I think him giving out a negative opinion about the post which is not about the content of the post and how that may be townish/scummish of me is usually how scums tend to try toshadeother players.
Overall, this post has 3 things I hate so much
- Belittling a post in a very indirect yet meaningless way
- Using that negative factor of the post to attack my slot/give a negative impression to others about me
- While in actuality if you look into this post, he contributed absolutely nothing. He did not enhance a conversation between me and him nor gave any useful analysis wrt my post
Furthermore, I think his complaint about how "he hates long post" and "if you have a succinct way of say something, say it in a simpler way" is just kinda really bad approach to the game
I can understand disliking long posts and I am sorry if you think that it makes the point I am trying to get across to be lost in the middle of it, but I make long posts because I tend to get on a tangent and write about all the thoughts I have in the process. To partly show a transparent thought process I have. This way, I can show others how/why I felt/thought abotu something in a certain way and discuss about it with them. Which will help me understand the other person's alignment better
You can dislike long posts and hate my post for not getting straight to the point, but I feel pretty strongly about this.
At the same time, I now think it'sREALLY SCUMMYfor you to just attack my post based on the fact that it's a long post and I didn't get my point across with it. rather than talking/expressing about how that makes me townie/scummy nor actually trying to ask me questions about the confusion you have with the post.
Because if you are town, you should be curious about the confusion you have. You express that you did not understand my post completely, but really don't ask a legit question that will help your clarification. Rather, you focus on how that makes my posting bad. Again, I think that comes from a scummy agenda that you want to give others the impression that I am posting badly.
I believe you are scum here, sir.
VOTE: Brass
And here was the post were I summarized the case against scum!DT in that game:
Spoiler:
In post 350, volxen wrote:I have a lot of concerns about DoubtingThomas's slot (now BlurryX's slot) as well. The three major things that really pinged me about DT were:In post 344, xwing wrote:hey guys, im back from vacation..
im still fine with either a yellow or saint lynch, and im still suspecting DT/BlurryX slot..
i mostly skimmed and didnt see any questions directed at me though, so lemme know if i missed any questions for me..
i agree that yellow's defeatist attitude is anti-town, but not too sure if it's town or scum indicative..meta points are towards scum yellow though..
1) How he was so quick to give Akagami (Roo's predecessor) a "good amount of town credit" for posting but not voting in RVS after five people had already voted. "Easy" townreads at the beginning of the game are a red flag for me, because I expect people to be more skeptical of everyone else, especially at such an early stage of the game where there is very little content. I questioned him about this and the first time he responded to me, but then I asked him follow-up questions about it which he never responded to. After he came back after his first prod he quoted and responded to some posts directed to him (and these posts cameAFTERmy post with the follow-up questions), but he never responded to my post, and I don't see how he could have missed my post given that he responded to posts that came after my post. I even re-quoted my post with the follow-up questions and posted them a second time, and he still never responded, so he may have just been trying to avoid the issue altogether:
In post 74, volxen wrote:I just looked at Akagami’s profile, and while he has been on this site for a few months, this is actually the first game he has ever played in (though technically he wasn’t supposed to post because Roo had already replaced him). So it’s possible that he simply isn’t familiar with RVS and that’s why he made a “hi” post without voting for anyone. So I find his lack of voting during RVS to be NAI (not alignment-indicative).In post 72, DoubtingThomas wrote:I already explained it.In post 33, volxen wrote:Akagami wasn’t even supposed to post, since he was replaced by Roo (who did place an RVS vote). Nonetheless, why do you think Akagami’s slot deserves town credit for posting but not placing an RVS vote? Voting during the early game/RVS helps to move the game forward by generating discussion and allowing us to see how people respond to votes/pressure, and we ultimately have to lynch scum to win, so voting is a pro-town action. Just popping in to say “hi” doesn’t help to move the game forward. And why make the comment that “itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf”? Most people (regardless of alignment) vote for someone during RVS.In post 21, DoubtingThomas wrote:I think akagami has good town cred for not voting despitr having like 4 ppl vote before them and itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf
He didn't vote when 4 people in front of him did.
As a wolf, your mindset naturally tends to be "I want to assimilate with the crowd (towns people who are not on your team)"
You see 4 people vote in front of you, you maythinkit's more natural to vote with them
the dude didn't
i think that comes from a townie mindset that wants to focus on themselves rather than be fake and "look" like they are townie
I agree with you in the general sense that scum wants to blend in and try to look towny, but I don’t think that realistically translates to a lack of an RVS vote (after other people have already voted) being town-indicative just because it goes against the norm. Voting early on helps to generate discussion, which helps to move the game along faster and helps town to make a more informed lynch on day one. Not voting and just saying “hi” doesn’t advance the game, so it’s not really a pro-town action.
In any case, is it specifically the fact that he made that “hi” post without voting after five people had already voted that you find be towny? If he was the first person to post in the game, and if he had posted that same “hi” post without voting, would you still have found his lack of an RVS vote to be towny?In post 228, volxen wrote:@DoubtingThomas, can you get back to me on this?
In post 74, volxen wrote:I just looked at Akagami’s profile, and while he has been on this site for a few months, this is actually the first game he has ever played in (though technically he wasn’t supposed to post because Roo had already replaced him). So it’s possible that he simply isn’t familiar with RVS and that’s why he made a “hi” post without voting for anyone. So I find his lack of voting during RVS to be NAI (not alignment-indicative).In post 72, DoubtingThomas wrote:I already explained it.In post 33, volxen wrote:Akagami wasn’t even supposed to post, since he was replaced by Roo (who did place an RVS vote). Nonetheless, why do you think Akagami’s slot deserves town credit for posting but not placing an RVS vote? Voting during the early game/RVS helps to move the game forward by generating discussion and allowing us to see how people respond to votes/pressure, and we ultimately have to lynch scum to win, so voting is a pro-town action. Just popping in to say “hi” doesn’t help to move the game forward. And why make the comment that “itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf”? Most people (regardless of alignment) vote for someone during RVS.In post 21, DoubtingThomas wrote:I think akagami has good town cred for not voting despitr having like 4 ppl vote before them and itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf
He didn't vote when 4 people in front of him did.
As a wolf, your mindset naturally tends to be "I want to assimilate with the crowd (towns people who are not on your team)"
You see 4 people vote in front of you, you maythinkit's more natural to vote with them
the dude didn't
i think that comes from a townie mindset that wants to focus on themselves rather than be fake and "look" like they are townie
I agree with you in the general sense that scum wants to blend in and try to look towny, but I don’t think that realistically translates to a lack of an RVS vote (after other people have already voted) being town-indicative just because it goes against the norm. Voting early on helps to generate discussion, which helps to move the game along faster and helps town to make a more informed lynch on day one. Not voting and just saying “hi” doesn’t advance the game, so it’s not really a pro-town action.
In any case, is it specifically the fact that he made that “hi” post without voting after five people had already voted that you find be towny? If he was the first person to post in the game, and if he had posted that same “hi” post without voting, would you still have found his lack of an RVS vote to be towny?
2) His whole... essay on self-meta, where he basically came to the conclusion that if he were another player in this game, he would "have a slight scumread on DT but really have DT as a nullread". The whole thing just looked like a roundabout way for him to try and make himself look towny, by giving the unexpected answer that he wouldn't be townreading himself if he were another player in the game:
In post 186, DoubtingThomas wrote:I am going to be very honest with you, and this will probably seem very egotistical/over-confident and you will probably hate it and maybe use those personal feelings to scum read me but whateverIn post 180, hearthstone1235 wrote:@DoubtingThomas
Assuming you were another player in the game, would you scumread Doubtingthomas?
Would be nice if you addressed this:Also, how about you? What are your thoughts on the game so far? What do you think of Roo and Volxen in particular?
Doubting Thomas is asking very general questions rather than pointed ones, that seems like being active lurking. I mean, there is a difference between asking someone what they think of the gamestate and what they think of a specific slot or a specific post. I feel like we are at the point where the questions should be specific rather than general. The questions just seem too easy.
I am also going to be telling you the 100% truth and giving you this answer pretending I am another player who is completely aware of how DoubtingThomas works (well, because I am DoubtingThomas)
No, I won't for several reasons
Well, first, what brass has pointed out is very true. Asking 'general' question is an easy way for scums to make themselvesLOOKlike they are trying to solve. Brass makes an extremely good point that such questions are often >rand wolf for people, especially newer players.
He mentions also that asking "pin pointed" questions are beter than general questions. This is true. However, what he forgets is that good wolves will do townie things. Bad towns will do scummy things.
I am a pretty good wolf. Compared to my town game, I am a really good wolf. I have a pretty good win record as wolf (6-2? ish) and I have almost never been mislynched as a wolf (although I have been n1 vigged by towns two times by people who know my meta well)
The point brass is making is pretty good, and can generally be considered as kind of a "rule of thumb" especially in a newbie game like this one
But at the same time, if werewolf games were that easy, we won't have any good players right? Towns have done really dumb/anti-town things all the time. To the point where it is better for some of them to just kinda be policy lynched for being so bad.
I think I am going nowhere this pep talk. I have an issue always just rambling and talking abotu random shit that is unnecessary and that's why I don't do well in my job interviews.
Anyways, the point being, what Brass said is true to some extent. But it is not a good tell to one of the more experienced players.
Now let's go back to what I personally think about DT based on what I know.
DT has 9000 posts in a different website called Mafia Universe where he created the account mid-July of 2018. On record, he has about ~55 games played. A lot of them are turbos (which are very short 18min/6min mini games) and loves to play on 12hours/12hours phases or at the most 36/12hours phases. He subbed out of a lot of games on mafia scum when he joined a bunch couple months ago because the week long phases just was too much/boring for DT who likes to post a shitton
Given that, I think DT's overall performance here has been underwhelming for sure. However, I also know that DTLOVESto wolf. He loves to town too, but loves to wolf a lot more. He is also a far better wolf than town. What Brass has commented which is definitely lackluster of DT is never really a wolf tell for him. Rather, personally, I think it makes DT >rand town because he will high post and generate content as both alignment, quite frankly, but he will never be caught as a wolf for not really doing anything or trying to act fakely townie
DT will do what he does as town as a wolf. The questions he asks, the comments he make, the shitposts he writes, and the pushes he commits always come from the fact that he trulyBELIEVESin (as a town) that or KNOWS THAT HE WILL BELIEVE it if he were town (as a wolf)
DT not posting any reads/pushes at the moment is slightly ping-y, but I am a little confused because he would have no problem just pushing people who are scummy or even if they are not scummy to see their reaction. His low content is also negative for town so I think he should start stepping his game up and start posting a lot more to carry town to the win.
Right now, I personally would list DT at "very slight scum lean" for low efforting, but secretly know that that is non alignment indicative for him and is only putting him at scum lean to see his reaction. He is a very omgus-y type of a player so that will generate reaction frmo him which will help you learn his alignment
Tl;dr If I am not DT but I know DT's meta and history, I would put him at very slight scum lean to generate reaction to help myself understand his alignment a little more while keeping in mind he is actually null. I would be slightly annoyed that he is not playing to his usual self because no matter what that is that is negative for town and hope that he will start playing. As of now, he isn't one of my main scum suspects tbh
3) His scum-case on Brass, which was based on one rather short post from Brass, seemed fairly over the top:
In any case, DT is someone I definitely want to look at much more closely. I plan to reread through his entire ISO again, and look through some of his previous completed games to get a better idea of his meta. He has multiple completed towngames on this site (though he has replaced out of several games), and I need to get a better idea of what his town meta looks like because a lot of the things he has said/done in this game are questionable/sketchy from my perspective.In post 207, DoubtingThomas wrote:I think this post is extremely bad in a scummy wayIn post 191, brassherald wrote:Are you talking about yourself in the third person and reading yourself.In post 186, DoubtingThomas wrote:
Tl;dr If I am not DT but I know DT's meta and history, I would put him at very slight scum lean to generate reaction to help myself understand his alignment a little more while keeping in mind he is actually null. I would be slightly annoyed that he is not playing to his usual self because no matter what that is that is negative for town and hope that he will start playing. As of now, he isn't one of my main scum suspects tbh
This is why I also hate walls, if you can say something in fewer words, say it that way, this post in general is too hard to follow and I have no clue what you are trying to say.
First problemHe attacks the post which was merely an ANSWER to another player's question
Second problemI see really no point of making this post at all.
He's asking a very simple question that can be kinda inferred to (that I made this post in a third person way) but also at the same time, the question itself doesn't contribute to ANY scum hunting at all. The answer to whether or not I wrote the post in a third person does not help brass know my alignment at all.
Third problemThen he goes on to attack my post in a way that's NAI and kinda pointless to point out. That "he hates walls" again which is his opinion, and he is free to express it. However, by expressing this opinion along with a pointless question he asked above, he is literally contributing nothing to the thread but still commenting on a post which was not directed towards him at all.
I think him giving out a negative opinion about the post which is not about the content of the post and how that may be townish/scummish of me is usually how scums tend to try toshadeother players.
Overall, this post has 3 things I hate so much
- Belittling a post in a very indirect yet meaningless way
- Using that negative factor of the post to attack my slot/give a negative impression to others about me
- While in actuality if you look into this post, he contributed absolutely nothing. He did not enhance a conversation between me and him nor gave any useful analysis wrt my post
Furthermore, I think his complaint about how "he hates long post" and "if you have a succinct way of say something, say it in a simpler way" is just kinda really bad approach to the game
I can understand disliking long posts and I am sorry if you think that it makes the point I am trying to get across to be lost in the middle of it, but I make long posts because I tend to get on a tangent and write about all the thoughts I have in the process. To partly show a transparent thought process I have. This way, I can show others how/why I felt/thought abotu something in a certain way and discuss about it with them. Which will help me understand the other person's alignment better
You can dislike long posts and hate my post for not getting straight to the point, but I feel pretty strongly about this.
At the same time, I now think it'sREALLY SCUMMYfor you to just attack my post based on the fact that it's a long post and I didn't get my point across with it. rather than talking/expressing about how that makes me townie/scummy nor actually trying to ask me questions about the confusion you have with the post.
Because if you are town, you should be curious about the confusion you have. You express that you did not understand my post completely, but really don't ask a legit question that will help your clarification. Rather, you focus on how that makes my posting bad. Again, I think that comes from a scummy agenda that you want to give others the impression that I am posting badly.
I believe you are scum here, sir.
VOTE: Brass
I feel like compared to that game, the positions he has taken in this game are much more believable. You will notice in that game, he gave an over-the-top and over-explained reason for scumreading brassherald based on one post Brass made, whereas in this game he hasn't done that. His reasons for scumreading Shoshin have been very straightforward.
~Put all quotes in spoilers so the page doesn't get annoying to read later on. If needed, I can change it later so tell me if you're not ok with that
ejj~
ejj~
