Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

[Nimueh]

Votecount 2.5

Flubbernugget(5)

~ Creature(47), Succinct(15), NotMySpamAccount(25), skitter30(110), tris(16)

Xtoxm(2)

~ Chara(66), Nimueh(172)

tris(2)

~ xRECKONERx(25), Elbirn(32)

Chara(1)

~ Flubbernugget(43)

Ankamius(1)

~ Xtoxm(29)


Not Voting (1): Ankamius(219)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-19 23:56:59).

Mod Notes:

skitter30 is V/LA on weekends.
Nimueh is V/LA while sick.

I am going to IC tomorrow

Flubber ICs 9 minutes after he’s at L-2.

[Nimueh]

1. Flying under the radar, and 2. Lack of gamesolving.

You'll never find me active, least of all not now. (Knowing my main'd help know why I'm particularly inactive now.) My gamesolving's in establishing townreads more than establishing scumreads, but I've done both.

I'm aided by people engaging me, but them not doing so's out of my control. If people don't interact with what I post, then I don't have anything to follow through on.

You're making me miss Ank, because she's one of the few who

would

engage me.
Question my reasons for NMSA, question my reasons for Elbirn, question my townreads.

^This post is also a pretty bad look.

What about it's wrong?
The only possible scum mastermind's me, and I

know

that's not right.
Knowing this, scum didn't have one.
Knowing they didn't have one, scum're going to play more as individuals.

The average individual scum player shows high levels of self-preservation, more interested in personal survival than survival of scumteam.
I think given this setup, that trait's amplified.

Voting Flubber risked five players becoming conftown. Flubber had ~7 different voters at different time. They aren't all town. As a result, scum at some point did cast a bus vote, and I think they did it for precisely the reason I outlined above:

an increased sense of self-preservation, leading to a decreased interest of survival of the scumteam.

Never NMSA who I think is town.

NMSA also has good reasons to be town (that i've actually looked at)

Remind me why.

I disagree with the bolded. In this setup, I think that’s reversed. In your typical game, scum can bus and still win. In this setup,

the ENTIRE scumteam must survive or they ALL lose

. Iow,

in THIS setup, self-preservation=ultimately protecting your team

.

No, this is faulty reasoning here, because

self-preservation=survival of the scumteam in THIS setup

.

[skitter30]

hello i'm about ten pages behind or so and my motivation has been like completely sapped with the ank rep-out but i'm going to try to catch up now

[skitter30]

ok but if there's no other tethers besides the fact i defended him then where does that leave you
like seriously.
me and flub both doing the "vote someone oh shit unvote immediately" thing d1?
flub specifically ignoring me because i was pushing his name out as town?

idk man i feel like im not so bad i would play this way if flub was my buddy

uh that's a *pretty* big tether in this setup, and i don't think it ought to just be ignored
i don't think you and flubber both 'voting someone and immediately unvote' means anything really wrt associatives
i don't remember where he specifically ignored you; if you want to pull that out i'll take a look at it

your defense is basically 'i'm too scummy to be scum!' and i'm not sure i trust that here rn

[skitter30]

i think in general my play of "being on the wrong wagon every day and specifically staying off flub" is bad play and im ashamed of it

like are you usually this bad as town?

[skitter30]

Xtoxm is town, Elbirn is hard scum now.

i don't think elbirn's resistance ot the flubber wagon was scummy actually; it felt like he couldn't understand what on earth ank was doing and he didn't want to join something he didn't understand (which is why he resisted *both* xtoxm and flubber), rather than pushing against flubber specifically

he could have just joined xtoxm there tbh if he was scum instead of resisting against both

[Nimueh]

How would you feel knowing the correct theoretical play's to let your scumread live, in spite of a bs claim?

I should also emphasize: how would you feel, as a person who prides themselves on theory, that the correct theoretical play's to let your largest scumread live, in spite of a bs claim?

I knew the correct theoretical play was letting him live.
And I was feeling defeated because of it.

I don’t understand this. Why is it the “correct theoretical play”?

I can understand you pushed a Flubber lynch and feeling “deflated” because no takers but the correct theoretical play, is always pushing your strongest sr, no matter what.

Anyway, one thing is kind of pinging me about the Elbirn scumreads, Tris and myself, are the only ones to actually vote there. Both you and NMSA have Elbirn in your POE but neither of you, are willing to vote him.

[skitter30]

To put it in other terms, Succinct was never

pushing

Flubbernugget, he was only

voting

him.

Again, I had the same doubts as you yesterday, which was why I hesitated temporarily switched back to Elbirn. But upon re-analysis I believe this is the best conclusion.

yeah iirc at the end of day1 they had a fairly strong fairly mysterious scumread on flubber (like, way before it was popular) and like i asked about it but it never got explained and succinct decidedly pushed brigitte over like pushign flubber at any point
tbf that was *fairly* close to eod so there might not have been time to actually push flubber there but i don't remember the two of them interacting like *at all*
i don't even remember the context of succinct's vote on flubber

[skitter30]

Creature > skitter30 > tris = Ankamius > Nimueh > Xtoxm = xRECKONERx = NotMySpamAccount = Elbirn = Chara (need more on all of these) > Flubbernugget = Brigitte

Apologies. I do what I can, but succinctness does not foster activity.

VOTE: Flubbernugget
Still a scumread.
Vaguely lean Xtoxm/Chara town, but those're gut; I have no evidence backing reads up.
Think remaining two're in xRECKONERx/NotMySpamAccount/Elbirn.

yeah this isn't a particularly good vote tbh
and there's like no mention of flubber in their iso before this besides for the like the afore-mentioned scumread which is meh

i guess the one thign i'm wondering is that if succinct is scum here i don't think she could expect to get towncred for this vote really

[skitter30]

not sure i follow?

i think in general my play of "being on the wrong wagon every day and specifically staying off flub" is bad play and im ashamed of it

however, i think the interactions between me n flub arent svs if you really look at them with a deeper critical eye

i do think that if you're scum with Flubber, your interactions with him are pretty ridiculous and would indicate misplays as scum.
but i'm not comfortable ignoring the possibility that scum you made a mistake, because it's easier to see why scum you makes those decisions in error, as scum (distancing mistakes), than why town you does it. (forgetting that you townread him a few times is just so strange to me.)

this basically

[skitter30]

is this early game distancing between Reck and Enter or am i too far gone down the rabbit hole?
there's probably no way to actually tell and i'm jumping at nothing because it might fit with what i think the team is.

that rvs interaction didn't feel svs to me

[skitter30]

I think last scum is skitter30. No longer interested in NMSA or Elbirn.

do tell

[skitter30]

this isn't AtE but i do need to say this for context:
i have an extremely bad drinking problem and uh a lot of those "forgetting" moments happen when i've already been drinking and just blindly barge into thread and try to read and then have a moment of clarity of "wait no"

i don't expect that to change your mind, but i wanted to put it out there. i forget that most of the people who know me IRL and have known me a long time dont really play on the site anymore or have moved on to mish mash so some of those things about me that i think are obvious arent as obvious to the playerbase anymore

this is actually kinda helpful context, i appreciate you saying this

[skitter30]

@mod, if game doesn’t end today, does scum get an NK, in addition to the escape?

Yes. This nightkill is mandatory.

huh

[skitter30]

You apparently missed a few posts pushing Flubber significantly.
Of 29 posts, I pushed him in 9+ of them.
The ones not pushing him, most're establishing/defending/explaining townreads, or pushing NMSA, or pushing Elbirn.
I never let up on Flubber; my push on NMSA's been the same since D2.

you're not really pushing him in any of these tho
you declare him to be scum and then meh vote him and then offhandedly call him scum in one line of a few different wallposts
you never interacted with him
you never really explaiend why he's scum besides lolmeta at any point
you never like *tried* to get him lynched. yeah you voted him but that's not really the same thing as trying to lynch him
like i think you're overstating how hard you're pushign him here

[skitter30]

yeah i can do this
VOTE: succinct

[Elbirn]

Yes, she said the vote counter is broken or something?

Elbirn voted me for dumbass reasons and NMSA immediately jumped onboard. That’s the main reason why Chara’s defensiveness is irritating to me. I’m sure if she had two votes on her, she would not find her posts very reassuring if I made them. Why? Because it is my very strong current belief that scum is trying to set up Reck/me mislynches. Therefore anyone both pushing Reck and not townlocking me, who I can’t townlock for other reasons, can’t help pinging me.

That would be an awesome mechanic. Yeah, let’s swap horrible NMSA and Elbirn and bring back Brigitte and Xtoxm. I’m all for it.

I still think Elbirn is scum and NMSA is only town due to clear anti-partner associatives. Elbirn lied. He claimed to townlocked me, when the closest he ever got to that, is you can be town for now but if I sr you, we be cool crap.

I dunno, I think Chara’s AtE seems genuine, where as Elbirn’s is just posturing. The only thing that gives me possible pause about it, is would scum!Elbirn really be that nasty? Would he really employ character assassination as a method to mislynch me? I’ve witnessed scum do it, so meta reads would be most useful in that regard. Like I know for me, I wouldn’t do that as scum but I’ve seen it happen and been on the receiving end of it.

.....Okay.

1. I've told you that I have zero interest in interacting with you any further. Stop taking cheap swipes at me from the sideline, its openly toxic and miserable.

2. I never lied and you repeatedly stating that I did is horseshit. Stop it. You were town to me, even if I didnt verbally suck your dick about it in thread. I sincerely had you as town because you are capable of decent analysis, except for when anyone disagrees with or scumreads you in which case your ability for intelligent discourse vanishes. The fact that you put me from town to lockscum and your most confident scumread solely in reaction to me scumreading you is fucking absurd. And earlier when I implored you to just be fucking chill: that was a call for fucking

civility

instead of this toxic bullshit you pull. That you want to turn that into a bizarro world reason to push me is fucking insulting.

3. I'd tell you to point me to any character assassination I've done considering I was doing my best to be civil previously, but hey I guess now you can just point everyone to this post so fuck me I guess.

Yeah Frozen Angel, do not sign up for a game I'm in ever again, under any alt, idgaf, every time i play with you is the literal worst experience

Just fucking go away

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Succinct

[Succinct]

that wasn't very succinct

When responding to lots of content, can only trim so much down.
Especially when responses involve extrapolating out existing thoughts. Statements're easily succinct, detailing how thoughts got from A to B aren't.

I disagree with the bolded. In this setup, I think that’s reversed. In your typical game, scum can bus and still win. In this setup,

the ENTIRE scumteam must survive or they ALL lose

. Iow,

in THIS setup, self-preservation=ultimately protecting your team

. No, this is faulty reasoning here, because

self-preservation=survival of the scumteam in THIS setup

.

Then do you think every Flubber voter was town?

I don’t understand this. Why is it the “correct theoretical play”? the correct theoretical play, is always pushing your strongest sr, no matter what.

Sorry, but no.
Correct theoretical play for a D3 IC claim's to let the IC claim live to D3. Chance of conftown > anything else. Correct theoretical play's

always

letting the IC claim live to prove it; that's why the obviously-BS claim was so defeating. I knew I couldn't do anything, because

I myself

knew the correct theory wasn't doing anything.

Both you and NMSA have Elbirn in your POE but neither of you, are willing to vote him.

Where did you get the impression I wasn't willing to vote Elbirn?
My NMSA scumread's stronger.
That doesn't make me unwilling to vote Elbirn, just more confident in NMSA.

yeah iirc at the end of day1 they had a fairly strong fairly mysterious scumread on flubber (like, way before it was popular) and like i asked about it but it never got explained

Pardon? Where'd you ask? I saw nothing of this sort until D2.

tbf that was *fairly* close to eod so there might not have been time to actually push flubber there

Correct. Half my reason for voting Brigitte was Brigitte > tris as a wagon, and both were the lead wagons.

but i don't remember the two of them interacting like *at all*

You'll also not remember me interacting with most players this game, because few have engaged me. Flubber's nothing special in that regard.

and there's like no mention of flubber in their iso before this besides for the like the afore-mentioned scumread which is meh

Has Succinct ever explained his Flubber scumread?

It's in

the very post you quoted

:

Like I remember he was in my scum pool but fucked if I know why anymore

Experience says odds're slot's scum.

Ank was talking about Flubber.
Someone who's in the scum pool yet you don't remember why is usually scum; doubly so when said someone's a player like Flubber.
If anyone had

asked

me about this at the time, I'd happily have said as much.

VOTE: succinct

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Succinct

Tohru:

It should send

massive

red flags to you that the

people you've partnered with me

are the ones voting me.

Your solve's wrong.

Fix it.
VOTE: Elbirn

[Creature]

Nimueh is FA?

[Tohru]

Well, that escalated quickly.

I also see two votes on Succinct from the players I wasn't rallying to! I'm so glad.

Elbirn and skitter locked town, then.

2 votes out of 5. Almost halfway there!

[Tohru]

Scumteam has to be Elbirn/Reck. I think it’s Flubber/Elbirn/Reck and I’ve solved the game. If I’m right, I want bragging rights.

again, ill ask: what part of me/flub interacting makes sense SvS

uh the fact that you badly townread him the whole time he was alive and refused to vote him

there is more subtext to interactions than TOWN MAN DEFEND BAD MAN TOWN MAN BAD MAN

Mister Reck, there is also more subtext to interactions than MAN VOTE BAD MAN MAN TOWN MAN. I truly hope that this could dispel your Succinct townread that may be solely on the basis of his vote on Flubber.

this is actually a really salient point, i think. like i actually sat back and went "....huh"

i guess what im struggling with is the idea that Succinct would risk his buddy dying in that way. you yourself have said scum aren't going to bus in this setup, so why do you think Succinct is the exception to the rule?

The setup changed to White Flag on Day 3, Mister Reck. Scum could "bus" (read: distance. A bus occurs when a teammate actually gets their head rolled under the bus.) before that.

Scum also had special privileged access to the setup information that Town did not have. Which means to say, they

knew

that a player had to escape even if they played a perfect game on Days 1 and 2. In fact, they did not just know, but they

chose

that player to leave.

This is a very important point, because it means that scum could plan their interactions

since the start of the game

. Clearly they've been doing well, since town as a collective whole was unable to lynch any of the three of them on Days 1 and 2 (and, I thought the lynches were pretty towny and a huge waste, but that's just my opinion!).

Which means to say, Mister Reck, that Succinct's uncanny accuracy on Flubber, was a sham. An act of deception, if you will, meant to convince the rest of the town that he is not part of the scum. And it was a planned, calculated approach. Not good enough to deceive the eyes of Tohru, I might say, but I think by its merits it was sufficient to fool quite a reasonable number of town, which is sufficient.

Now, you ask, why take risks? Two things: 1. It was a low risk, high reward. Flubber's IC claim was made knowing the fact that he would be escaping the next day, and this took advantage of the fact that town did not have this knowledge. Meaning to say, that this event was planned for an unknown period of time. Since the start of the game? Halfway through Day 1? Day 2? This is not important to us, actually. 2. People take risks for the silliest reasons all the time. Why did the 16-year-old boy perform incredibly dangerous parkour/skateboard tricks, just to impress the girl, but risking his neck being broken and hospitalized? Not everyone can assess risk clearly and accurately, without actually putting a lot of thought into it.

In other words, the play was actually a lot lower risk than you think it is, Mister Reck. It was sufficient to fool the town, but it isn't perfectly executed: If you read a bit of my reply to Nimeuh (which is also directed at you, too), you'll notice that Succinct's reasons for scumreading Flubber were non-existent, hinting that it might be fake.

Hello Mister Reckoner,

After some thinking during the day, I felt my explanation above was a bit too long. I've thought about it and came up with an explanation that is way more succinct.

Scum on Day 1 and 2 are incentivized to bus.*

*Actually, only distance. In order to be a "bus", a teammate has to be actually thrown under the bus and has his head rolled under for the kill. No such event happened in this game.

[Succinct]

VOTE: succinct

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Succinct

Tohru:

It should send

massive

red flags to you that the

people you've partnered with me

are the ones voting me.

Your solve's wrong.

Fix it.
VOTE: Elbirn

Repeat: The players you called my scumbuddies are the ones

backing you up

.
If I was scum, I'd have a scumbuddy; who'd it be?

[Succinct]

For that matter, no, you don't get to ignore these, either:

Spoiler: Quotewall

NMSA
Succint
Elbirn

You seem to think I'm a double-busser.
I generally avoid bussing altogether.

Sure. Apart from his abysmally low postcount, post quality, and thereby remarkably poor contribution to the game, I also have not been able to find a single reason to townread him in a 150-pager. Looking at his ISO, it's scummily-barren, he isn't trying to gamesolve or have the conviction that town would.

You're scumreading playstyle. Look at my name. It's my approach; deliberately minimalistic. I'm also a late-D1 replacement. I average 1 post/day. My game solving's in all my posts; I mostly only quote pertinent content. (Almost)

Everything

holds relevance.

But, I observed his lack of emotion and/or conviction in those posts [compare to NMSA], hinting that it may be indicative of a distancing attempt on a scumpartner who was already under fire (and therefore also the prime candidate to escape the game).

You apparently missed a few posts pushing Flubber significantly.
Of 29 posts, I pushed him in 9+ of them.
The ones not pushing him, most're establishing/defending/explaining townreads, or pushing NMSA, or pushing Elbirn.
I never let up on Flubber; my push on NMSA's been the same since D2.

1. Flying under the radar, and 2. Lack of gamesolving.

You'll never find me active, least of all not now. (Knowing my main'd help know why I'm particularly inactive now.) My gamesolving's in establishing townreads more than establishing scumreads, but I've done both.

I'm aided by people engaging me, but them not doing so's out of my control. If people don't interact with what I post, then I don't have anything to follow through on.

You're making me miss Ank, because she's one of the few who

would

engage me.
Question my reasons for NMSA, question my reasons for Elbirn, question my townreads.

Enter has only been in the game for a fraction of its duration

Actually, this time you're mistaken.
Enter was in the game for 75 pages.
I've been in the game for 78 pages.
Page-wise, we've been around an equal amount.

Succinct is extraordinarily scummy and therefore we can infer that he is arguably a lot worse at hiding his alignment than Enter.

For those who know my identity:

in a replacement situation you should always aim to read the easier and more transparent slot, not the one which is better at scum.

By that metric, you'd be reading Enter, because

I

am the slot that's better at scum.

As for Elbirn I acknowledged that I am biased against his way of playing.

And yet the thought didn't occur to you you're biased against mine?

Succinct is only ever replying to people

Naturally, because

that's my playstyle

.
Especially as a replacement who didn't read content prior to replacing in.
All I

had

was replying to people to generate content.

Does nobody actually see the problem with being only reactive rather than proactive?

Naturally, because

there is none

.

and never putting forth his own pushes and arguments.

Just because arguments pushed are in walls doesn't mean they aren't there.

Has Succinct ever explained his Flubber scumread?

It's in

the very post you quoted

:

Like I remember he was in my scum pool but fucked if I know why anymore

Experience says odds're slot's scum.

Ank was talking about Flubber.
Someone who's in the scum pool yet you don't remember why is usually scum; doubly so when said someone's a player like Flubber.
If anyone had

asked

me about this at the time, I'd happily have said as much.
Nobody did, but I can't control that, can I?

No explanation was ever given for Flubbernugget and Brigitte scumread.

The Brigitte read was also explained:

Not much time to post, but skitter is a strong townread, and it should be easier for everyone else to see now why Nim and Brig are scum.

Not convinced on Nimueh, but skitter-town/Brigitte-scum, can see.

Context: skitter made this post after I replaced in:

the elbirn wagon was: brigitte, chara, xtoxm, nimueh
my gut says that there's prob scum in the elbirn voters, probably in this order of likeliness: nimueh >

brigitte

= chara > xtoxm

My post was saying, "I think Nimueh's town, and the scum on Elbirn was Brigitte".

Succinct explanations != no explanations.

[Tohru]

VOTE: succinct

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Succinct

Tohru:

It should send

massive

red flags to you that the

people you've partnered with me

are the ones voting me.

Your solve's wrong.

Fix it.
VOTE: Elbirn

Repeat: The players you called my scumbuddies are the ones

backing you up

.
If I was scum, I'd have a scumbuddy; who'd it be?

I actually don't know. Your scumteam actually played a pretty strong game to obscure that last scumbuddy, I'll say. Credit to your partner.

It's too bad that this setup is a White-Flagesque where it's only necessary to catch just one scum.

I was going to write a wholesome reply to reply to all your posts in general, but it seems that you're around to talk? That'll be cool, but bear in mind that I have no interest in trying to convince you of your own Red PM. We can talk about life and mafia theory and stuff, though.

[Succinct]

I actually don't know. Your scumteam actually played a pretty strong game to obscure that last scumbuddy, I'll say. Credit to your partner.

Alternatively, it's because I'm not scum and

actual

scum're taking advantage.