Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

[Enter]

You'll have to forgive me if I snarfed when I read someone saying the game was scum sided.

Ebwop

[skitter30]

I think extradition-esque setups are ridiculously townsided, no matter what the calculated ev is. I'm undecided whether i feel like this setup is harder pr easier than jingle's.

[Enter]

It was fun playing with you skitter, while I was here, while things went down. You were pretty intimidating because you obvtown pretty hard.

[Enter]

I honestly think your play would have worked fine, Ank, if there hadn't been other things going on in the thread at the time.

[Eddie Cane]

Who was screaming about creature town meta again?

Friendly reminder meta is trash

the only thing trash is yours and many others play here

Imagine digging. Normal scumhunting is like having a shovel. It's slow, it's capable of digging but often you wont have enough time to empty that shit. Meta is like getting an excavator. So much quicker, more efficient, and powerful, but if used by untrained people can do far more damage than good.

This was Creature's scum game, through and through. I am very annoyed at this town for not seeing that. I was going to replace in and tunnel it but Nim and Reck and others looked kinda unbearable to play with and I didnt want to deal with that.

I have more thoughts in dead thread. GG. I think this setup is probably townsided FWIW, at least on ms ot might be different.

[Ankamius]

Thanks this post game needed more negativity

[Eddie Cane]

I'll say something postive

I'm glad this game is over and you can all move on and forget it

Good flavour and modding, nsg!

[skitter30]

It was fun playing with you skitter, while I was here, while things went down. You were pretty intimidating because you obvtown pretty hard.

Thanks
I enjoyed playing with you too!

[Elbirn]

Who was screaming about creature town meta again?

Friendly reminder meta is trash

the only thing trash is yours and many others play here

Imagine digging. Normal scumhunting is like having a shovel. It's slow, it's capable of digging but often you wont have enough time to empty that shit. Meta is like getting an excavator. So much quicker, more efficient, and powerful, but if used by untrained people can do far more damage than good.

This was Creature's scum game, through and through. I am very annoyed at this town for not seeing that. I was going to replace in and tunnel it but Nim and Reck and others looked kinda unbearable to play with and I didnt want to deal with that.

I have more thoughts in dead thread. GG. I think this setup is probably townsided FWIW, at least on ms ot might be different.

You weren't even in this game

SHE DOESN'T EVEN GO HERE

[Creature]

There are many ways water can be harmful to your health, doesn't mean you gotta entirely stop using it.

[northsidegal]

scum don't have to have a perfect game in order to win. that'd be the original extradition mafia. the intent of this setup was to allow a little leeway there.

i'll say again what i said in the dead thread and what schadd said to me in the setup thread – normal games with no scum lynches day one or day two lead to town wins only 15% of the time. that's

normal games

, which people love to complain about having townsided setups so much. in this game, when that happens we reward scum. the only benefit to town when that happens in this setup is the information of a scum flip – that's certainly not useless, but i don't think it makes the setup townsided.

i think that this game, like a lot of games that i run (and perhaps moreso than most normal setups) tends to reward pro-active scumplay and punish the "sit back and let town explode" type of scumplay.

yes, associatives were something scum had to keep in mind. they had an entire game's worth of preparation to do so.


what's more, it seems to me that some people are implying that town would have lost had it not been for the townsided setup. to that i would say that, looking at the larger picture town did fairly well this game. i consider it pretty much a fluke that flubbernugget wasn't lynched when he was. i don't think almost anyone was townreading succinct – all it took was tohru pointing that out and calling for votes there to make the wagon happen.

[northsidegal]

that being said, i wouldn't say that i have much personal connection to this setup. i like to think that i'm fully willing to accept that i created a whateversided setup.

i guess i just don't really agree with the arguments.

[RadiantCowbells]

This setup was homie sided

The RCs had no real path to victory

[RadiantCowbells]

Keep in mind scum could have just lolguiltied D2

[Ankamius]

scum should've won because town essentially imploded without their help :V

most of the fighting until the endgame was TvT violence

[northsidegal]

-shrug-

yeah, there was a lot of tvt fighting. i think it's true that for most games most fights will be tvt, and that's just numbers, although maybe it also involves a propensity for most scum players to try to avoid conflict.

not trying to attack anyone's play here, but i don't think scum did a good enough job of getting townread or fighting the succinct wagon as they needed to. enter was pretty much the only secret agent who actively got townread – succinct didn't really make enough of an impact as was necessary. (although creature was generally townread)

i dunno. like, once the succinct wagon started it never really went away. most of succinct's responses only served to increase the scumreads, and the only real counterwagon attempts that went anywhere came from town.


it seems to me like succinct was still getting lynched there regardless of whether it ended the game or not. it seems to me like the only reason flubbernugget

wasn't

lynched was the setup. i guess i just don't see it.


do scum deserve to win a game where they're not really all that townread just because there's a lot of town infighting? i don't know.

[Enter]

Did we deserve that win? I doubt it.

[Enter]

secret agent

I see you trying to squeeze that last little bit of flavor in

[Creature]

do scum deserve to win a game where they're not really all that townread just because there's a lot of town infighting? i don't know.

Well, apparently that's what happened in Boonskiies' game and scumteam there got nominated.

[northsidegal]

secret agent

I see you trying to squeeze that last little bit of flavor in

it sounds a bit better than using "mafia" or "scum" singularly, i think

[xRECKONERx]

Who was screaming about creature town meta again?

Friendly reminder meta is trash

the only thing trash is yours and many others play here

Imagine digging. Normal scumhunting is like having a shovel. It's slow, it's capable of digging but often you wont have enough time to empty that shit. Meta is like getting an excavator. So much quicker, more efficient, and powerful, but if used by untrained people can do far more damage than good.

This was Creature's scum game, through and through. I am very annoyed at this town for not seeing that. I was going to replace in and tunnel it but Nim and Reck and others looked kinda unbearable to play with and I didnt want to deal with that.

I have more thoughts in dead thread. GG. I think this setup is probably townsided FWIW, at least on ms ot might be different.

Well you popping into a game you weren't even involved in to be toxic is pretty trash tbh

[Enter]

scum don't have to have a perfect game in order to win. that'd be the original extradition mafia. the intent of this setup was to allow a little leeway there.

i'll say again what i said in the dead thread and what schadd said to me in the setup thread – normal games with no scum lynches day one or day two lead to town wins only 15% of the time. that's

normal games

, which people love to complain about having townsided setups so much. in this game, when that happens we reward scum. the only benefit to town when that happens in this setup is the information of a scum flip – that's certainly not useless, but i don't think it makes the setup townsided.

i think that this game, like a lot of games that i run (and perhaps moreso than most normal setups) tends to reward pro-active scumplay and punish the "sit back and let town explode" type of scumplay.

yes, associatives were something scum had to keep in mind. they had an entire game's worth of preparation to do so.


what's more, it seems to me that some people are implying that town would have lost had it not been for the townsided setup. to that i would say that, looking at the larger picture town did fairly well this game. i consider it pretty much a fluke that flubbernugget wasn't lynched when he was. i don't think almost anyone was townreading succinct – all it took was tohru pointing that out and calling for votes there to make the wagon happen.

I agree with most of what you're saying here, FTR. I don't know much about the numbers, I haven't looked at any of them myself, but I trust you if you say it's pretty even both ways. I'll say that it was super intimidating to look at this setup as a player who has only survived more than one day as scum as a fluke and who mostly plays VT and leave it at that. The game was fun, I liked the setup, and with an ever so slightly different player list, I'd play it again.

I do really like that we were encouraged to actively play, though.

[xRECKONERx]

i think the setup was probably

balanced

it was just

swingy

an early scum lynch fucks the scumteam irrevocably

it was almost like white flag kinda in terms of swing/balance

(though i do think if it errs in either direction, it errs on the side of being townsided)

[Enter]

do scum deserve to win a game where they're not really all that townread just because there's a lot of town infighting? i don't know.

Well, apparently that's what happened in Boonskiies' game and scumteam there got nominated.

Really? Ew. Link me.

secret agent

I see you trying to squeeze that last little bit of flavor in

it sounds a bit better than using "mafia" or "scum" singularly, i think

TBF both of those words sound weird/bad singular

[Creature]

Really? Ew. Link me.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78060