Newbie 1926: Baseball (Game Over)

[DENMON]

Uhh, I never quoted brassherald. No idea how that go there

[brassherald]

Votecount 1.09

godmid (2) ~

the worst, u r a person 2

Marcus325[ (2) ~

Lavender, PvtUrist

u r a person 2 (1) ~

DENMON

Lavender (1) ~

Shoshin

Not Voting (3) ~

Ryno56, Marcus325, Godmid

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Mod Notes

The day will end in (expired on 2019-04-22 05:45:00)
Shoshin has been prodded.
Searching for a Marcus replacement, remember, if you replace PM, do not post in thread.

[u r a person 2]

oh when did we get down to under 3 days?

I guess today's the day I push godmid to a lynch

[u r a person 2]

Lavander, Shoshin, and Urist

I'll be focusing on getting you three to vote godmid so I hope you will engage with me

[Shoshin]

Talk to me about this, U2.

[u r a person 2]

I'm going to but I'm still waking up

Watch this space

[u r a person 2]

before we start, shoshin

can you tell me if you are town reading all of {Lav, TW, Shoshin, ME}?

That's my town bloc and if we disagree there we should work on that first

[u r a person 2]

Spoiler:

Hello everyone.

I wasn't expecting to find myself in a game so suddenly and I'm going to bed soon

, so I'm not going to be able to post much tonight.

However, I do want to check in at the very least.

Before I get off, I'll comment on Shoshin since she seems to be the main focus currently. Shoshin's self-vote at the beginning of the game wasn't something that I thought anything of. If someone wants to make an argument as to why this is indeed suspicious, go for it, but I don't see any connection between a self-vote and being mafia. Now, having said that, the defense she gives seems more significant...

Why is self-voting a town tell for you?

I wouldn't self-vote as scum because I wouldn't want newbies to get the idea that self-voting is scummy or harmful. I self-voted specifically to show them that it's NAI & harmless. I've been making a big deal about this lately in other games & the mafia discussion forums.

If Shoshin is telling the truth here about strongly believing that self-voting is NAI and she is trying to push for this opinion, it makes a lot of sense that she would be less willing to do it as scum in a newb game since it would likely influence the opinions of newer players against her own position. As such, if this is the case, the two possibilities are that either Shoshin is town and that she is attempting to use her personal meta as a way of clearing herself, or she is mafia and she is willing to influence the opinion of newer players in a way that she believes to be detrimental to good play.

Both of these possibilities seem quite dirty (using personal meta to clear self vs encouraging a belief that she sees as harmful).

@Shoshin, do you think that this is a fair assessment? If not, why?

Anyways, I'm getting off now.

I'll give myself an avatar tomorrow so I'm easier to tell apart.

Night.

I think the bold portions of this post are scummy.

-The greeting tell is scum-indicative in new players. That's a fact.
-The rest of that first couple lines screams awkward!scum, and so does the "Anyways, I'm getting off now"
-The analysis of Shosin is "I don't see any reason why this is scummy, and it must come from either town or scum. It's

dirty

though, so you should make sure to unconsciously discount your opinion of Shoshin."

[u r a person 2]

To follow up on this...

I think it's okay to consider the possibility that I'm scum as long as you keep your focus on what's probable over what's possible. I don't think using personal meta is "dirty" & I encourage everyone to use it. Why do you think it's "dirty"? What's your experience with mafia?

Of course I'm considering the possibility that you're scum. Having said that, the reason why I wanted to comment on your defense for your self vote was because it did seem like a fairly compelling argument as to why you are more likely to be town. I wanted to dig at it a little further and get a response from you to get a better feel as to whether you were being genuine, more then feeling any actual displeasure towards the use of personal meta, which is the section you chose to focus on.

While I am going to stick by my assessment that doing that type of gambit as mafia in a newb game is a bit underhanded, I am leaning town on you currently more then anyone else.

"I'm going to keep my options open so I can vote you later, but I'm town reading you right now so please don't scum read me."

[u r a person 2]

To be clear, the fact that you are new to forum mafia and are therefore going to be less certain in your reads is something that I am very much taking into account. However, the issue I have isn't so much that you aren't being active enough in scum-hunting, since you are answering questions when asked. It's that when you have been answering those questions and giving opinions, your opinions seem to have a "not suspicious" bias towards them.

This is the same hedging as with shoshin. Rest of the post is nai

[u r a person 2]

@Shoshin: As the other SE in the game who has played with urap2 and The Worst, do you find the behaviour they've shown this game to be consistent with their normal play? Particularly on The Worst's unwilligness to peg anyone as a scum lean besides writing every other player down as a town lean and urap2's willigness to not really impact the game due to first post reads?

@The Worst: You seem to be trying to push myself and Denmon as the most likely scum team. However, as far as I can see, you haven't given a reason for finding me scummy besides leaning town on most of the other players. Are you going to make an argument against me specifically, or are you just basing it off of process of elimination?

@Ryno: Same general topic as before. You opened up the game by criticising the use of tells, then soon after tried to build a case against Lavendar using tells. Were your opening criticisms your genuine feelings?

I don't think any of these questions are in good faith.

If you're going to make a meta case, why not go do the meta? Also, it's clearly a tilted phrasing

The question to TW implicitly shades PoE as a reasonable strategy and tries to lock TW into that framing

And with ryno he is continuing a push onto lynch bait

[u r a person 2]

due to my inexperience with the site, I am still forced to consider the possibility that we are all town I am presenting myself as scummier then I should and that your reads are more accurate then mine.

I am painfully aware of the possibility that both you and urap2 are town and that the entire basis for my read is incorrect. This type of D1 reading is something that I haven't done much for a very long time and, regardless of how this game goes, I am going to be treating it as a learning experience.

I haven't committed to focusing on you on urap2. This is because due to my lack of on site experience, even if my beliefs do hold weight, I'm not entirely sure how to approach differentiating you,

I don't think this is every instance, but please for the love of god guys understand that he's new to this site and that's why it's okay that he's holding reads that you might find scummy

[u r a person 2]

Ryno - I'll try to make a fuller case as to why I lean town on him later, but the general idea is that I found the way he oppened to be very bold and not at all what I would expect from someone new to FMs if they rolled mafia.

This read does not mesh with the line of questioning from Godmid to Ryno.

[u r a person 2]

Generally,

there is a ton of over explaining going on.
And, continuing with my computational bent, his post lengths are long and his sentence structure is generally short, and both of these were relatively strong indicators in that big paper and data set in MD a while back


Someone tell me why my scum read is wrong

[brassherald]

Teacher replaces Marcus325

[u r a person 2]

Yaassssssssssss

[u r a person 2]

Teacher you have perfect timing mate

[Ryno56]

I think I've asked this a few times, can someone point out the benefit of lynching someone today when we could wait for more information?

[teacher]

Hello. Got to read a bunch and I’m mostly a night player.

[teacher]

VOTE: shoshin
quack quack

<3 been hoping to play w you again for a while.

[teacher]

I live and breathe the Yankees

I was at the 96 series and actually believe I started the “throw him out” chant about the Braves manager. But \_o_/

[u r a person 2]

I think I've asked this a few times, can someone point out the benefit of lynching someone today when we could wait for more information?

I'm going to let someone else go through the details because I'm sure they will do it better than I would, but rest assured that lynching d1 - even mislynching d1 - is +ev for town

[u r a person 2]

I live and breathe the Yankees

I was at the 96 series and actually believe I started the “throw him out” chant about the Braves manager. But \_o_/

super jealous =P

[teacher]

I think I've asked this a few times, can someone point out the benefit of lynching someone today when we could wait for more information?

I'm going to let someone else go through the details because I'm sure they will do it better than I would, but rest assured that lynching d1 - even mislynching d1 - is +ev for town

I’m assuming he meant real life day rather than game day? But yea, no lynch in a 7-2 is terrible play.

[teacher]

@onob what pinged you about Marcus?

pick any of his posts, they're all bad!

Subject: Newbie Game Queue (Players and Mods)

/in for newbie

this comes from town 7/9 of the time tbh
we can reconvene on this