Gameshow Mafia (Reroll): Game Over

[BNL]

Vote Count 2.1.3

Dance (4): RadiantCowbells, themilkcartonkid, chennisden, OkaPoka
Coalition (3): NanceFloor, 0verki11, Taly
1of4 (1): Time Devil
Call a friend (1): Ankamius

Not Voting (7): mbaki, Creature, JohnnyEnglish, Clemency, Chemist1422, BrightEyedFish, Titus

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 to select a power.

The deadline for choosing a power is 8 May 11:15pm UTC-4, or in (expired on 2019-05-08 23:15:00)

Mod Notes:

@mod, are NKs stopped irrespective whether or not the selected player is vanilla or not?

Protect will stop the night kill on a player

only if they are vanilla.

[RadiantCowbells]

vengeful is overpowered in lylo situations. we're not blowing it now for an incremental advantage over dance.

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm also fairly sure town you isn't stupid enough to realize how much equity it gives us to leave vengeful in the pool for endgame situations

[RadiantCowbells]

trying to push vengeful here should be seen as a scumclaim for the record.

[Titus]

Can we do Veto instead?

[Titus]

It's like Dance but town picks the 4 slots.

[RadiantCowbells]

no, because it is immensely better later in the game when we're trying to clean up the coalition pools.

it's not a question of what power puts us in the best position at the end of its current usage

it's a question of what order performing all the powers gives town the highest chance of winning the game.

[Titus]

no, because it is immensely better later in the game when we're trying to clean up the coalition pools.

it's not a question of what power puts us in the best position at the end of its current usage

it's a question of what order performing all the powers gives town the highest chance of winning the game.

Absolutely disagree with your theory and its application.

If all these powers are better after coalitions, then we should do coalition sooner rather than later.

Veto is also more optimal than Dance in every way as VCA has not been tested enough in GiF games to get a viable sample.

[RadiantCowbells]

all these powers are NOT better after coalitions
dance is better before coalition and also probably better than lynch and it improves our coalition

everything else is better after coalition. 2 of 4 could be argued, the high risk high reward play is to use it not but i sincerely doubt that if we have scum in the townblock it'll be exactly the 1 person that we remove by 2 of 4ing early

whereas 2 of 4ing later wins us a lot of games.

[mbaki]

We are not doing Veto. Dance is always better than Veto here.

i'm not playing for a potential 3p lylo where vengeful is good. if we get there, arena accomplishes almost as much (kill 2 people), only change being scum pick the two. a marginal advantage in a lylo that we don't even want to get to in the first place is not better than a large advantage here

[RadiantCowbells]

2/3 instead of 1/3 chance of losing the game isn't a marginal advantage. or 3/5 instead of 2/5. dance versus vengeful is a marginal advantage.

just ignore mbaki he's scum.

[mbaki]

this setup never gets to 3p lylo if you play it well, quiz / reveal / 1 of 4 late game all carry. there's also arena for your 2/3 chance.

just ignore rc he's scum.

[mbaki]

now i'm going to go to bed and hopefully look back at this game in 2 or 3 days and be power mislynched and not have to deal with this.

[RadiantCowbells]

for the record this is the correct usage order

Dance -> 14
Coalition
Coalition
2 of 4 in the harder pool -> 12
Arena -> 9
Lynches until solo scum or day before lylo
1 of 4 at solo scum or day before lylo
vengeful at lylo

[RadiantCowbells]

can any of the townies who have any mathematical ability back me up that mbaki is scumclaiming by advocating for blowing vengeful early?

[RadiantCowbells]

arena gets used early for the double lynch, quiz doesn't get used at all unless it's mechanical autoloss for scum to submit themselves

[OkaPoka]

u cant vengekill in lylo u boo boo

[Taly]

Mmm, I do see the benefit in

1of4

being saved.

I do agree with

mbaki

,

Vengeful

gives town control of the narrative while

Dance

gives it to scum.

However, if its been those two,

Vengeful

would be more in town's favor later in the game than

Dance

.

The only way we ever hit scum with

Veto

is if we peg the rest of the scumteam assuming we're looking at a 4p group. Not great odds, but it could be great in confirming potential scum when the scumpool is smaller and townbloc is larger.

It feels like a stronger utility later.

Titus

, what are benefits you see in using this now?

trying to push vengeful here should be seen as a scumclaim for the record.

Talk to me about your townread on

Chemist

than the same scumread you've had for 50 pages.

p-edit

can any of the townies who have any mathematical ability back me up that mbaki is scumclaiming by advocating for blowing vengeful early?

What are you accomplishing here? Because I don't see any good results.

[OkaPoka]

we gotta save vengekill for mylo

[chennisden]

we dance today.

[RadiantCowbells]

what mbaki is pushing for us to do is use our abilities super fucking suboptimally under the logic that we're going to steamroll the game then we're going to be absolutely fucked in late game
it is actually playing against wincon to use vengeful outside of lylo. instead of being an arguable tiny advantage in terms of all the safe -2 player no nightkill abilities that maybe adds like 1-2% town equity at best in late game it increases towns chances of winning by 20% or 33% in 3-5 way lylos. that's something no player of mbaki's caliber would be stupid enough to pass up under the rationale that "oh we're going to stomp this game early so we won't need lylo" and something that no player of his caliber would advocate me as scum for suggesting given I could easily be that scum in that lylo situation.

[RadiantCowbells]

Choose by majority vote a player to eliminate from the game. That player can choose another player to eliminate from the game. Mafia cannot kill after this power.

where does it say we can't use this in lylo?

[OkaPoka]

mafia wincondition is control 50% of the votes

so in the instantaneous moment between vengekill and lynch i assume that maf would have "50%" of the vote and thus win

which is why in faq

[OkaPoka]

Vengeful:
If a majority is not achieved by deadline, the power is forfeited, and the Mafia may kill that Night.
If a town player is eliminated and the Mafia control 50% of the votes, the Mafia immediately win and the eliminated townie does not get a vengekill.

[RadiantCowbells]

that is really really aids.