Open 756: Hope Plus One (Day 5)

[Shoshin]

A GiF kill makes sense if the town are lurkers.

You're the most active player besides myself. If you're town, wouldn't that disprove your theory?

Why would scum kill the worst instead of you?

[Titus]

A GiF kill makes sense if the town are lurkers.

You're the most active player besides myself. If you're town, wouldn't that disprove your theory?

Why would scum kill the worst instead of you?

I said kill or discredit. GiF was universally townread. You're just spamming nonsense demotivating town.

[Shoshin]

GIF wasn't universally townread. He was one of Fumuki's top scumreads.

[mcqueen]

popsofctown replaces brassherald.

Votecount 3.1

Shoshin (2)

- Titus, Emperor flippyNips

Egix96 (2)

- Shoshin, Eyes without a face

Creature (1)

- Egix96

Not Voting (4) - Creature, Clemency, Iconeum, popsofctown

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

The deadline is on Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 1:00 pm EST, which is in (expired on 2019-05-25 12:00:00).

[Titus]

GIF wasn't universally townread. He was one of Fumuki's top scumreads.

Fumuki is no longer in the game. Second, I think Icon is town but you just assume he is here.

[popsofctown]

I followed this game a lot before replacing in. I found a lot of the first few pages pretty fascinating. I kinda had to stop reading when I saw so many big names replacing out of the game and saw the game encountering a fortnight night. Kinda demoralizing. I figured I could still help out and replace in but it's a little less exciting when the game has so little of its integrity left.
I read page 1-70~ and then 90-100. So I guess that's most of the game.

[Shoshin]

What're your reads?

[Egix96]

Icon, Eyes, & Creature are town. I'm very confident on this.

I will never lynch Icon or Eyes.

Icon, because the amount of effort Fumuki put into the game isn't something that comes from scum Fumuki.

Eyes, because GIF's death. GIF was probably killed because scum thought he was cop, and GIF's posts strongly suggest that he had an innocent result on Eyes if read them from this perspective.

Icon, it's not as simple as based on "activity" so much as the degree of effort Fumuki went to to understand the meta of different players in this game, along with the fact that Fumuki is very unlikely to do this as scum based on what I know about Fumuki. I gave a lot more detail about my Fumuki read yesterday.

As for Eyes, let me clarify the reasoning:

1. If Eyes is scum, scum knew that GIF wasn't the cop because GIF's strongest townread -- a rare "locktown" from GIF -- was Eyes.

2. Scum are unlikely to kill someone who they believe 100% isn't the cop just for the sake of "WIFOM." After all, it means a real cop continues to get results.

3. Scum killed GIF.

4. Therefore, it's unlikely that Eyes is scum.

Okay, so what about Creature? Why is he town?

[Shoshin]

I'm not as confident on town Creature as I am on Icon/Eyes but this:

Creature's town because the way he played around Baezu on D1 strongly suggests he's town (calling him scum after the point where scum would have known Baezu was doctor), & Creature's self-vote almost never comes from scum him in this context whereas I've seen him do it as town before. Also, he's defending me at a time when he had no reason to, especially since he had been calling me "underwhelming" earlier in the game and easily could have jumped on my wagon. Lack of opportunism is strongly town indicative for Creature.

Egix, why vote Creature over Titus?

[popsofctown]

Eyes without a face

- eyes has been playing pretty humbly. The post where he sorts himself as least proficient and asks to be copped felt a lot like a townslip to me. It was just a pretty towny thought process. I don't actually have to award him points through the WIFOM of whether he expected to actually get copped, it's not necessary.
He's so humble that I can't rule out him just wanting to bunt a sacrifice play he views as helping a scumteam in someway or other, but he's far from the top of the list of people I want to lynch. Shoshin's point about how the GiF NK interacts with the slot makes sense too and can still be true even if she pasted it from the scum PT.

Creature

- Creature's grandpa used to be playing this game! Creature seems to have largely sidelined himself and failed to dig in a game full of replacements, lurkers, and "1v1 me in mid lane bro" episodes. The timing and pattern of his disengagement pretty reasonably match when I'd expect a townie to tune in more or tune out more. The disengagement makes him a bit hard to read, and the disengagement itself can't be strongly read, !scum Creature should be pretty capable of recognizing the drags. I'm pretty null on this slot. Independent of alignment, props to Creature for honoring his commitment to this game.

Egix96

- Right after this post I'm gonna iso this player. Somehow I forget all their posts immediately. I remember nine time in D1 reading "Egix needs to get copped tonight" and thinking "What's an Egix? I should probably iso Egix to have some awareness to be a responsible player. Wait I'm not playing. I don't have to do that. I can just keep reading woo"
Now that responsibility has kicked in and hes a high ranking lynch candidate today so definitely will look.

Clemency

northsidegal

CultOfAthena

- nsg seems like she would try to break the setup as either alignment, and also seems like she would get frustrated by people not breaking the setup as either alignment. She was right, and lynching wizard was wrong.
She did little enough afterwards that I'd rather just try to read this Clemency dude instead. I hear he is really good at playing Lyncher so if he can visualize his life as a lyncher with Shoshin as a target I'd dig that.

Emperor flippyNips

I'm fuzzy on this slot but not quite as fuzzy as Egix. He tends to make nonfluff posts yet doesn't actually make that much progress as I recall. I remember neither resonance nor scummy thought processes which makes me kind of want to VCA this player if I can't read him.

Titus

Celica

Miss Kobayashi Maru

- The previous slots were pretty scummy. Virtually all of the actual Titus I've read is page 90-100. And it reads bad town or scum. I actually also want Shoshin lynched, that comes later because I didn't bother to rearrange a logical order to this post. But lynching a player you think has lots of town equity just because if they are town, they're solving inaccurately, is really bad mafia. Most everyone solves inaccurately most of the time, mafia is hard. Bad TvT play happens all the time, but with the poor predecessor play I'm pretty willing to take some more conspiratorial interpretations of this (they look different with different Shoshin flips).

Iconeum

Fumuki

Buki

Skellen

-
Buki's activity level AND effort level AND townsided resonance were all massive snowballs. This player contributed to the game being fun for me to read and suggestions that <pronoun> is going to quit mafia makes me a very very sad panda.
Iconeum, it's not just the activity level. There's lots of town resonance in the posts. The activity level is just like a multiplier on how many times you got to encounter that because that how many resonant posts there ended up being.
I won't lynch Iconeum's slot just no matter what. Iconeum played pretty well in a recent game I played with him, so I'm pretty willing to sheep his slot too.

Shoshin

- Shoshin is the scummiest slot in the game by a bunch for me. Buki had it right D1, and the reasons for talking oneself out of it are fundamentally flawed. I won't restate Buki's original push.
- She started doing stuff!
Well yes, but half the time she continued to post "I'm doing stuff", "Imagine how you would read me if I was doing stuff", "And X could be scum, or X could also be town, I'm doing stuff". There was nothing like a groundfloor wagon with original thought or mounting a defense for a wagoned player. It is not the kind of stuff that makes it seem like our sample size was too small before, it is the kind of thing that makes it look like a scientist was made aware her research results were being deemed unsatisfactory
- She started engaging and enjoying the game!
This is like, backwards, this game is opposite day in lots of ways and this one is actually problematic. Having a considerably better time in the thread when you're not under pressure can easily lean scum, not town, because for scum that pressure is more stressful. And it is paradoxical and troubling to me for Shoshin to be so unengaged early on in the game, when this game didn't suck, and to start kicking it into gear later on, when this game was actually much more sucky. The potential explanations for her having a jollier time are not town-scented ones. Less pressure, cool we got a mislynch, hey the mod let me PM some friends starting with N1. It's the opposite of town slots that have gotten bogged down as this objectively vietnamified game has progressed.
And finally and probably most importantly, Dr. Worm said he investigated Shoeshine and she is scum. We should honor his memory. It's the least we could do after not giving him an opportunity to fakeclaim cop as VT.
VOTE: Shoshin
(this might change to Egix after iso but I'm guessing not)

[Eyes without a face]

@Shoshin: Can we lynch Titus? Please? Pretty please?

I mean, I know the Cop "should" have checked that slot already, which is why I keep thinking they might be town after all, but I can't help feeling Titus is being manipulative and really sucks at it.

@Titus: Read the game already. I should be conf!town regardless because I was supposed to be the N1 Cop check anyhoo. No guilty = clear.

@Pops: Who did you replace again? Celica?? If so, you're town. Please don't vote Shoshin. She is the only one talking sense in this game so far. RC was adamant about lynching her and I still SR RC (Titus) the most.. independently.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin is the scummiest slot in the game by a bunch for me. Buki had it right D1, and the reasons for talking oneself out of it are fundamentally flawed. I won't restate Buki's original push.

Buki's reasons for scumreading me on D1 were based on faulty meta. Buki later realized his reasons were wrong when he took a deeper dive into my meta. Why do you agree with Buki's incomplete meta? Have you read all my games like him?

- She started doing stuff!
Well yes, but half the time she continued to post "I'm doing stuff", "Imagine how you would read me if I was doing stuff", "And X could be scum, or X could also be town, I'm doing stuff". There was nothing like a groundfloor wagon with original thought or mounting a defense for a wagoned player. It is not the kind of stuff that makes it seem like our sample size was too small before, it is the kind of thing that makes it look like a scientist was made aware her research results were being deemed unsatisfactory

I don't understand what you're saying here. Can you clarify?

- She started engaging and enjoying the game!
This is like, backwards, this game is opposite day in lots of ways and this one is actually problematic. Having a considerably better time in the thread when you're not under pressure can easily lean scum, not town, because for scum that pressure is more stressful. And it is paradoxical and troubling to me for Shoshin to be so unengaged early on in the game, when this game didn't suck, and to start kicking it into gear later on, when this game was actually much more sucky. The potential explanations for her having a jollier time are not town-scented ones. Less pressure, cool we got a mislynch, hey the mod let me PM some friends starting with N1. It's the opposite of town slots that have gotten bogged down as this objectively vietnamified game has progressed.

1. I'm not enjoying this game. I hate this game a lot.

2. I was put at L-1 on D2 & nearly lynched so I don't understand what you mean by "not under pressure." I've been pressured the entire game.

3. I was unengaged in all my games during the period of D1 where I was unengaged. I specifically linked a game where I was town during the same period in this game's D1 where I was less active than here & mislynched.

4. D1 sucked at all stages of the game.

5. Where do you see "explanations" for "a jollier time"? Please quote specific posts. What isn't "town" about these explanations?

And finally and probably most importantly, Dr. Worm said he investigated Shoeshine and she is scum. We should honor his memory. It's the least we could do after not giving him an opportunity to fakeclaim cop as VT.

Worm thinking I'm scum doesn't make me scum. Why should we "honor his memory"? What kind of logic is that? If we honored the memory of Wizard, who was lynched on D1, we'd be lynching your slot.

[Shoshin]

@Shoshin: Can we lynch Titus? Please? Pretty please?

I mean, I know the Cop "should" have checked that slot already, which is why I keep thinking they might be town after all, but I can't help feeling Titus is being manipulative and really sucks at it.

I'm going to insist on lynching Egix today. There's a small chance Titus is bad town whereas there's no world where Egix is town.

[Shoshin]

Scum Egix strongly points to Titus as scum but I still rather lynch Egix today.

[Shoshin]

Eyes, the Titus slot is Celica & Pops is the RC slot.

[Shoshin]

Well yes, but half the time she continued to post "I'm doing stuff", "Imagine how you would read me if I was doing stuff", "And X could be scum, or X could also be town, I'm doing stuff".

I think it's unfair to characterize my play this way.

[Eyes without a face]

OH! Then Titus is the bad townie and Pops is the scum between the two? Or.. maybe the cop did check RC and Pops is town, but id Celica so good as scum? Because I hard TR'd her.

[Shoshin]

According to RC, Celica is a very strong scum player.

[Eyes without a face]

OK.. so maybe she was scum and fooled me. The thing is Titus is pinging my scumdar to the mac here, but I am still voting Egix necause I trust you.

[Titus]

I never read on subbing in eyes. Also, it's hard to persuade scum to self vote.

I also don't buy any sort of group think on cop clears. Only if it's dead or living crumb I see do I factor it into account.

[Titus]

OK.. so maybe she was scum and fooled me. The thing is Titus is pinging my scumdar to the mac here, but I am still voting Egix necause I trust you.

You do realize every day has been taken off the rails and Shosin is the one consistent thing right?

[Creature]

Yawn, is this game even worth it?

[Creature]

Damn you, scum, you killed possibly the only person on this site who recognises the existence of my country.

VOTE: Creature

because it was probably his idea.

My experience with GiF says he's a suboptimal kill even if Pretentious was obvtown.

[Shoshin]

Creature, please vote Egix. Please.

[Creature]

Oh, yeah.. I don't mind lynching in Nippy/Creature/Icon, but I think I really wanted to lynch Dr Worm.

VOTE: Dr Worm

That's a shitty derp.