Gameshow Mafia (Reroll): Game Over

[chennisden]

succint im town and thats all that matters

[NanceFloor]

Again after sleeping on it and rethinking both Tohru’s and Maria’s posts, I really think vetoing PB would be a mistake but I first want to know what power he thinks repicker should pick. That could lock it in for me. Creature being extremely opposed to coalition further pings me and wanting a vengeful, which I see as pretty random and useless definitely isn’t helping improve my read on him. And when you think about the fact that Tohru didn’t even base her veto picks on the coalition but on individual reads, I feel even more strongly about this. Why I think TD over Chenn is based on Fucosco trying to get him lynched plus he is very easy mislynchbait in general. Similar with Overkill11. Plus TD’s RC push was gross.

[Creature]

For the record, Tohru was townreading me that Topaz game and only got me after the game ended through white flag, so wouldn't rely there.

[NanceFloor]

Fun fact, in Topaz, Tohru, me, Ank were all town and Succinct and Creature were scum, so her being confitown repicker, right after Tohru, is kind of funny.

[Skygazer]

I want to interact with mafia in a more positive way but I feel like that's a two way street

genuine question: what could i do better?

[NanceFloor]

For the record, Tohru was townreading me that Topaz game and only got me after the game ended through white flag, so wouldn't rely there.

But she made those reads independent of who was in coalition. That’s the main thing that sticks out at me. I was also tr you in that game. I had you as never lynching and my #1 tr, remember? Tohru seemed pretty damn confident on you being scum here.

A quick skim indeed.


Creature is mafia!

[NanceFloor]

She also didn’t have any experience with scum!Succinct and she nailed her immediately. You can’t forget about that either.

[Creature]

She also didn’t have any experience with scum!Succinct and she nailed her immediately.

Can happen. As much as she being unable to tell how obvscum Ank or even RC was in that Fire Mountain game.

[NanceFloor]

I want to interact with mafia in a more positive way but I feel like that's a two way street

genuine question: what could i do better?

I think you’re already way more obvtown than you were in Newsroom if that helps. I didn’t obviously want to say anything att but you’re saying something along the lines of you hadn’t been scum in a long time in Undertale scum chat did help consolidate my tr on you in that game but when you brought Shoshin/Ank reads into it, it locked it in for me. In contrast, here both you and Taly - to channel LotV FL: are so bleeding obvtown, it’s like a horror show or crime scene.

[RadiantCowbells]

I've had more bad experiences with Tohru than not

[Skygazer]

i mean being townread as town is important i guess but i feel like taly's posts did more than mine towards that front

i meant it more as in how do i not be a woat/burden/etc

[NanceFloor]

She also didn’t have any experience with scum!Succinct and she nailed her immediately.

Can happen. As much as she being unable to tell how obvscum Ank or even RC was in that Fire Mountain game.

Here’s the thing, she didn’t put either one of them into her veto. So why you and not either of them?

[NanceFloor]

I've had more bad experiences with Tohru than not

Yeah, I kind of got the impression she wasn’t exactly a fan and had a bit of personal bias towards you wrt Ank replace out.

[Creature]

She also didn’t have any experience with scum!Succinct and she nailed her immediately.

Can happen. As much as she being unable to tell how obvscum Ank or even RC was in that Fire Mountain game.

Here’s the thing, she didn’t put either one of them into her veto. So why you and not either of them?

Idk what you're saying here.

You just shouldn't overestimate her read on me.

[NanceFloor]

i mean being townread as town is important i guess but i feel like taly's posts did more than mine towards that front

i meant it more as in how do i not be a woat/burden/etc

I don’t think you are here? You’re trying very hard to be solvey, make good reads and figure out the game. You’re tone is way more earnest and sincere than I can recall in any game I’ve ever played with you and considering the fact that you were in failed coalition, you shouldn’t discount any of that. Leaving Taly out of it, I probably wouldn’t exclude Newsroom you from veto, here, so you must be doing something right. Without Taly, you are still transparently obvtown here but of course so was he.

[NanceFloor]

She also didn’t have any experience with scum!Succinct and she nailed her immediately.

Can happen. As much as she being unable to tell how obvscum Ank or even RC was in that Fire Mountain game.

Here’s the thing, she didn’t put either one of them into her veto. So why you and not either of them?

Idk what you're saying here.

You just shouldn't overestimate her read on me.

Your argument is that she obvtown read you in Topaz but also obvtown read RC/Ank in FotM, is this correct? So, considering the fact that she wrongly tr all 3 of you in those games, my point is, why isn’t she sr either RC or Ank in THIS game but she is you?

There is either something both of them are/aren’t doing here that that were/weren’t in that game that she thinks doesn’t apply to you in Topaz.

[NanceFloor]

IOW, why aren’t all 3 of you in veto? She obviously gleaned enough from her brief skim, to tr both RC/Ank and sr you.

The point for me is, these reads were all independent of who was in coalition but that’s obviously not the case for me. Not being able to confidently exclude you from failed coalition, is the main reason I’m voting you.

[NanceFloor]

IOW, why aren’t all 3 of you in HER veto? She obviously gleaned enough from her brief skim, to tr both RC/Ank and sr you.

The point for me is, these reads were all independent of who was in coalition but that’s obviously not the case for me. Not being able to confidently exclude you from failed coalition, is the main reason I’m voting you.

[Creature]

She also didn’t have any experience with scum!Succinct and she nailed her immediately.

Can happen. As much as she being unable to tell how obvscum Ank or even RC was in that Fire Mountain game.

Here’s the thing, she didn’t put either one of them into her veto. So why you and not either of them?

Idk what you're saying here.

You just shouldn't overestimate her read on me.

Your argument is that she obvtown read you in Topaz but also obvtown read RC/Ank in FotM, is this correct? So, considering the fact that she wrongly tr all 3 of you in those games, my point is, why isn’t she sr either RC or Ank in THIS game but she is you?

There is either something both of them are/aren’t doing here that that were/weren’t in that game that she thinks doesn’t apply to you in Topaz.

It has nothing to do with her reads on Ank and RC. She can easily be right on them and wrong on me like any other player.

[NanceFloor]

You’re the one who brought up FotM. Sure she could obviously be wrong. I think odds are probably only one scum on coalition than two, so she is very likely wrong on at least one - probably two of the coalition slots in her veto.

As I keep stating, failed coalition is the main reason I’m voting you. Things you said post-coalition have pinged both Titus and me. It’s the unfortunate reality that we need at least 3 slots in failed coalition to be useful. I rethought my original wanting only two slots and realized that wouldn’t be all that helpful because the two hypothetical consensus sr can’t be confirmed but we know for a fact there’s at least one scum in coalition and you’re the only non lhf slot in it that I can’t exclude.

[RadiantCowbells]

why shouldn't tohru scumread me though

if i'm town, i'm likely to defend myself and at the very least force reveal over a lynch. the opportunity cost of revealing me over someone else is not all that salient from where they're standing relative to the opportunity cost of

not

using their obvtown status to try to force some sort of clear on me though. particularly when they have recent losses to me on their mind. and they wrongly scumread me in our game on myanimelist for no reason at all so i don't think they're trying particularly hard to read me. i don't think they're particularly worried about it being held against them in future games given that they've already been wrong on me every time so it's not exactly going to be hurting their already nonexistent credibility reading me.

and if i'm scum, it's win win. either they somehow manage to kill me and they get to brag about it over several sites for the next several years or they still get to wear a 'hey i correctly scumread rc' medal.

understanding reads on me in the same context that you understand the way that people read other people is incorrect because most people don't even try to read me. they just generate the read on me that suits their purposes outside of game. the people that want to have a friendly relationship with me just call me town. the people seeking glory and prestige call me scum. the people who are pragmatic about the latter treat me as confirmed scum after x point in the game.

as soon as my slot comes into play the game essentially stops being mafia and starts being something else.
except in newbies, but then the SEs bring their baggage in anyway and it goes down the same direction.

[RadiantCowbells]

it's funny because the real reinforcer for mafia to me, the thing that makes me play it, is getting townread
so like most people who effort and try to gamesolve have that gamesolving effort reinforced with townreads and that encourages them to tryhard
so when everyone refuses to townread me in situations where i clearly should be, i lose the motivation to actually put in that gamesolving effort

and that's how we got to the point where I just refused to give reasons for my reads for years

i think that my presence has ended up a massive - to everyone's enjoyment of the game but... for really no reason at all.

[RadiantCowbells]

btw when the only way for me to stay alive is to be aggressive in a way that discourages people from pushing on me, that's the behaviour I adopt as general play
so every time we get into situations like this where i was invested and solvey and tryharded on d1 and got fuck all from it
whereas playing in a way that discourages even scum from pushing on me in a gamestate sense

what am i going to end up doing? besides quitting mafia because this hasn't been much fun for me

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm not even saying this for just this game. this is a bigger problem than this game
really... what's the point of playing with me if you're just going to call me scum based off of arbitrary shit that you know has nothing to do with my alignment
what are you even working towards? if i roll scum someday and you win because of it, does it say something meaningful about your abilities?

[Skygazer]

i dont TR you just to remain on good terms w you for the record

i made an effort to read you correctly in newsroom, was wrong in pyp because i couldn't get over my ank read (and was rlly uncertain anyways), and have seen some towntells here and there in this game and generally trust the reads of the ppl calling you town rn over the reads of the people that have been calling you scum since i repped in

i wouldn't say ur presence has made this game or any game less enjoyable than any other situation in which i've gotten stressed out over mafia,,, i just tend to get pretty stressed out over mafia and i dont necessarily think that its anyone's fault

also im more apathetic than anything rn because this set-up removes a lot of agency in a way which i didnt really anticipate ig