Mini Normal 2081 — My First Game! [Game Over]

[Menalque]

I'm too neurotic to lurk as scum :c

Do you mean stressed? How would that make you lurk less as scum?

P sure she means neurotic as a general state, where she’d be worrying too much about how lurking would be perceived and the likelihood of being scumread for it to

actually

do it if she were scum

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Also Cinnamon is a townlean for me rn because e seems exactly the same as last game

Luv I take your point about ViciousLamb (and agree about band name) but if you wanna help get the game going why don’t you get on the sky wagon

Also did you choose your name cause you knew everyone would call you luv?

Don’t scum read her currently.

Completely unintentional actually

[Menalque]

Do you not think there’s value in voting to apply pressure to people/for later vca?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Do you not think there’s value in voting to apply pressure to people/for later vca?

Eh I’ve never put much faith into VCA. It can be a useful tool, but it is not the be-all-end-all and context is extremely important if you are going to use it. Even if you expect to see patterns over the course of the game, context is still important. I think a lot of people who use VCA luck themselves into conclusions that happen to be correct or are correct more often than not or just ignore the times it doesn’t work while remembering the times it does.

[Menalque]

And for the sake of pressure?

[Menalque]

Also, q for the board: is greeting the thread only considered a scumtell in newbie games?

[Cinnamon]

From what I've heard it's only valid on new players, so for players with a bit more experience like skitter and Exilon it means much less

[Exilon]

My good man, we have very different mafia philosophies, i think that's all i'm going to say in response

I understand this response.

wow nice!

Because it seems so stretchy to me (okay, I haven’t read skitter’s other games so maybe she has caught scum from the same) that to actually be right seems like she has information that only scum could reasonably have at this point

I have
Give me a sec and i'll pull up an example on me calling out scum for a similar type of rvs post (and getting flak for it!)

Anyways ur prob town
Kinda conflicted on luv's soft defense of me

I think his jump on you for what is very obviously as strong as a day 1 read can possibly be is the only thing being stretchy to me
I don't like it, it's pinging me the wrong way

Like, why announce "if you're right I wanna lynch you for it"
that's not the type of thing you announce in this type of timing, especially if you're trying to gauge out scum?

I see this as kinda scummy. To me, this read does not seem organic but more like 'I used this read previously when I was town, so I can use it here to look town'. This is mainly due to a difference in circumstance. From my experience with Menalque (Newbie 1934), he's very vocal about his thought processes and says what comes to mind, which got him townread by the whole game. I don't see how your read makes much sense on a newer player who likely is just trying to get their thoughts out there.

If I had the same knowledge you do I would have probably townread him too but I don't; yet you use it to support calling my post scummy. That doesn't hold water.

Why is it more likely that my thought process was 'I used this read previously when I was town, so I can use it here to look town' as opposed to 'I saw this behaviour previously and it was scummy, maybe it's scum here too'?

Also, I didn't miss that people preferred to criticize how I pointed out a fact and disregarded the fact itself. Fact being Menalque made an anti-town move in exposing his read on skitter's behaviour before it was developed enough to produce an actual good read.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

And for the sake of pressure?

Admitting her wagon is a pressure wagon defeats the purpose of having it in my opinion.

[Exilon]

Oh, I forgot

VOTE: Cinammon

[Exilon]

oh I thought I was voting Menalque there
apologies

[Exilon]

I don’t know how to or I would have 10 years ago.

I seriously try to but when I see people using terrible logic, logic that has Ben disproven, I get upset

Do you think she may be doing it on purpose as part of a strategy to gauge out reactions and reads?

[Cinnamon]

My good man, we have very different mafia philosophies, i think that's all i'm going to say in response

I understand this response.

wow nice!

Because it seems so stretchy to me (okay, I haven’t read skitter’s other games so maybe she has caught scum from the same) that to actually be right seems like she has information that only scum could reasonably have at this point

I have
Give me a sec and i'll pull up an example on me calling out scum for a similar type of rvs post (and getting flak for it!)

Anyways ur prob town
Kinda conflicted on luv's soft defense of me

I think his jump on you for what is very obviously as strong as a day 1 read can possibly be is the only thing being stretchy to me
I don't like it, it's pinging me the wrong way

Like, why announce "if you're right I wanna lynch you for it"
that's not the type of thing you announce in this type of timing, especially if you're trying to gauge out scum?

I see this as kinda scummy. To me, this read does not seem organic but more like 'I used this read previously when I was town, so I can use it here to look town'. This is mainly due to a difference in circumstance. From my experience with Menalque (Newbie 1934), he's very vocal about his thought processes and says what comes to mind, which got him townread by the whole game. I don't see how your read makes much sense on a newer player who likely is just trying to get their thoughts out there.

If I had the same knowledge you do I would have probably townread him too but I don't; yet you use it to support calling my post scummy. That doesn't hold water.

Why is it more likely that my thought process was 'I used this read previously when I was town, so I can use it here to look town' as opposed to 'I saw this behaviour previously and it was scummy, maybe it's scum here too'?

Also, I didn't miss that people preferred to criticize how I pointed out a fact and disregarded the fact itself. Fact being Menalque made an anti-town move in exposing his read on skitter's behaviour before it was developed enough to produce an actual good read.

To clarify, I don't think that the read you produced on Menalque would be a valid read on the average new player, not just Menalque which is why I think it does not make sense. I added a bit of context on Menalque specifically to also add that even though it was an anti-town action I did not see it as a scummy one from Menalque.

[Exilon]

I don't / didn't know that he's an average new player.

[Exilon]

Basically we disagree on the read, that's absolutely fine. I've seen it and I think the interpretation is valid regardless of how likely it is; we can leave it at that.

Could you answer this

Why is it more likely that my thought process was 'I used this read previously when I was town, so I can use it here to look town' as opposed to 'I saw this behaviour previously and it was scummy, maybe it's scum here too'?

[Cinnamon]

It's not that they are an average new player (IMO he's a bit better than average, at least as town), but that if you didn't look at their history I assume that's what you would see them as.

[Cinnamon]

I thought that I previously answered this; I just don't see the logic in using this read on a newer player so from what I see it looks like a read out of context.

[Menalque]

Yo cinn, if you’re still there can you answer me this one: do you think it was legit an anti-town action to explain my thoughts there, and if so for the same reasons as exil or others?

[Menalque]

And for the sake of pressure?

Admitting her wagon is a pressure wagon defeats the purpose of having it in my opinion.

Yeah that’s fair, it’s why I wanted you to just get on it

[Exilon]

Once again I didn't and still don't know if he's a newer player. But let me put that aside and say that from my POV, it is valid for players with any experience. So we can simplify what I'm going to say next.

This:

I thought that I previously answered this; I just don't see the logic in using this read on a newer player so from what I see

it looks like a read out of context

.

makes this thought process:

'I used this read previously when I was town, so I can use it here to look town'

more likely than this?

'I saw this behaviour previously and it was scummy, maybe it's scum here too'

[Cinnamon]

Yo cinn, if you’re still there can you answer me this one: do you think it was legit an anti-town action to explain my thoughts there, and if so for the same reasons as exil or others?

At first, I didn't see it that way but when Exilon pointed it out it made sense. It does bring up the association before necessary, so you prevent them from making more 'mistakes' if they are actually the scum team. However, I really don't think it's that anti-town (especially since you probably didn't even think it was anti-town at the time, regardless of your alignment) and I think that pushing on somebody for it is a big stretch.

[Cinnamon]

Once again I didn't and still don't know if he's a newer player. But let me put that aside and say that from my POV, it is valid for players with any experience. So we can simplify what I'm going to say next.

This:

I thought that I previously answered this; I just don't see the logic in using this read on a newer player so from what I see

it looks like a read out of context

.

makes this thought process:

'I used this read previously when I was town, so I can use it here to look town'

more likely than this?

'I saw this behaviour previously and it was scummy, maybe it's scum here too'

I'm not sure how much more value we're going to get arguing about this. To me, your read didn't make much sense so it looks to be taken out of context, while you believe in your read so its scumhunting. That's really what we're discussing here and I doubt either of us are going to relent atm.

[Exilon]

Oh no, there's actually a lot of value for town here. If you think I care about my read being right or wrong regarding Menalque, you're very mistaken.
In fact, that's exactly what I said in 164.

The thing is you have holes in your thinking as presented, because what you point to as being reasons for me being scummy don't really add up, and I wanna find out if it's you fabricating or just miscommunicating.
So please go over the quote again and actually try to answer it as opposed to evading the question.

[Cinnamon]

I'm sorry, I don't believe you understood what I was trying to say so I'll put it simply. I think your read is fundamentally bad. You're using a bad read so I think it's more likely to come from scum than town. I also have no idea where this 'trying to dodge the question' is coming from because I think I answered you quite clearly.

[Cinnamon]

By 'out of context' I mean out of applicable context; it's not inherently scummy that you've used this read previously but I find it scummy because I do not see it as applicable in this situation