Gameshow Mafia (Reroll): Game Over

[RadiantCowbells]

technically that applies regardless of which of you is scum, given that i've protected both of your slots at several points during the game (but i can't be scum with either of you)
but i tried to lead on Chennis/Titus on D2 (to which Titus absolutely flipped out), made sure Chennis wasn't in the coalition, tried to lead on him when it was autowin to lynch him, etc.

i dunno. either you played better than i was expecting you to as scum or 0verkill fell into my usual blind spot for lurkers.

i'm not really trying all that hard to sort you guys right now because a significant portion of the time rank outs the final scum for me, and if i end up the clear in lylo i'll deal with it then.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm relatively confident in my theory but I'm not confident enough to risk obvious town. It's strategically suboptimal anyway. We can have this day pass while we discuss reads and then do veto tomorrow.

So do you suspect Nancy might be scum?

-b

I’m not really feeling befnoka, willing to vote there again to prevent a NL but for now
VOTE: titus/chenn

-b

btw i feel like i should point this out

regardless of which of the 3 non-titus players is scum

all of us tried to lynch the chennis/titus hydra at some point during d2

[RadiantCowbells]

Vote Count 1.2.17

Fuscosco (7): mbaki, RadiantCowbells, NanceFloor, OkaPoka, BrightEyedFish, themilkcartonkid, JohnnyEnglish

(L-2)

BrightEyedFish (4): chennisden, 0verki11, Time Devil, Fuscosco
mbaki (1): Titus
themilkcartonkid (1): Chemist1422
0verki11 (1): Clemency
Taly (1): Ankamius

Not Voting (2):

Creature

, Taly

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to eliminate a player.

The deadline for elimination is 27 April 12:00pm UTC-4, or in

(expired on 2019-04-27 12:00:00)

Mod Notes:
Less than 1 day remaining!

@Mod, what resolves first, the 1-shot repicker or the scum night kill?

The actions do not interfere with each other.

oh wow

both overkill and TD were on the BEF wagon at EoD.

[Baezu]

Ya I think I had Titus as scum pretty much until she got reveled as town

[RadiantCowbells]

actually that makes a lot of sense in retrospect. scum as a group either bus or push a counterwagon
the fact that there's no scum on the lynch wagon does point to scum having been pushing a counterwagon as a group
by the way, I'm pretty organized with regards to how I have my scumteams interact with wagons on us.
If I were going to bus, why would I have my partners all sit on the counterwagon and look bad for it
if I wanted to lynch Fuscosco, why wouldn't my partners be on the Fuscosco wagon with me so that town look bad and we look good?

also as a reminder that everyone on D1 had a theory that BEF was the 8-ball and with 3 scum on that wagon that seems pretty damn likely

[Time Devil]

Ya I think I had Titus as scum pretty much until she got reveled as town

[RadiantCowbells]

i never thought titus was scum. i was reasonably sure she was town most of the game i just didn't want to call her town b/c when i call her town she refuses to townread me and uses the dichotomy that I should trust her but she shouldn't trust me as a way to try to strongarm me into sheeping her or following her stupid strategies

[Time Devil]

So scum team is Fusco, creature, Chen and overkill?

Doesn’t seem like we’d be in Lylo if that was the case...

You posit that if you had had your way and other town didn’t interfere to obfuscate we could have won this game a long time ago, and yet here we are, anyway

[RadiantCowbells]

i considered just treating her as town and using reveal on maria but i wasn't at all ok with the prospect of losing to her as scum, and we still ended up in 4 way with a clear still alive so i think things worked out?

So scum team is Fusco, creature, Chen and overkill?

Doesn’t seem like we’d be in Lylo if that was the case...

You posit that if you had had your way and other town didn’t interfere to obfuscate we could have won this game a long time ago, and yet here we are, anyway

what does this mean exactly

[Time Devil]

I’m just frustrated...I hate being in lylo. In a large.

Oh much pressure for town to not fuck up...

At least TL is with me

[Time Devil]

Can I please be the no tonight? Please?!

[Time Devil]

Nk

[Time Devil]

No offense to anyone but that seems like a weak scum team to me

I mean it wouldn’t be much stronger if you replaced overkill with me tbh

[Time Devil]

I think I’ve only been in Lylo once, don’t remember if I won or lost for town...ima go look

[RadiantCowbells]

i dunno. you wouldn't expect aristophanes to solo win as scum in a lobby with Ellibereth and all the top town players on MS but that happened
i mean you can independently verify everything I'm saying: I did try to lead on chennis at a point where it was autowin for town if chennis got flipped.
I did make sure that Chennis was not put in the coalition pool, and even though I didn't hard object to Creature he wasn't like a first pick for me
I was the main reason Fusco got lynched D1, mbaki may have placed the first vote and my scumread on him may have been based off of incorrect associatives but it's a thing that happened
I wanted coalition and didn't get it. i had moongrass/mbaki going out of their way to make the game unplayable for me. la dee da

No offense to anyone but that seems like a weak scum team to me

I mean it wouldn’t be much stronger if you replaced overkill with me tbh

if i were scum we wouldn't still be playing this game though. like, if "weak scum team can't make it this far" is a rule, then "strong RC should have already won" is a rule as well.
and you can be damn sure if I were scum I would have played to win off the vengeful. I can't be targeted, titus is cleared, so maria has a 2/3 chance of losing the game there

all i had to do was use her hard townread on me and play off of her paranoia of you, that she repeatedly expressed, to win the game.
i instead discouraged her from targeting you and pushed her towards targeting Chennis.

i'm not timid about pursuing my win conditions. there's literally no reason for scum me to allow the game to continue past yesterday.
i can quote a billion times over one of my rules as scum which is avoid 1v1s at all cost, but because of my play we're going to end in a lylo with a clear.


imagine if I had just let mbaki blow vengeful and rank and all the good powers earlier in the game and we had nothing left here. we would have just lost.
we didn't, because of me. the scumteam may have been weak but the town was just as bad.

[RadiantCowbells]

and that argument holds whichever of you or overkill is scum :shrug:

[RadiantCowbells]

like... i'm objectively the town mvp. when i'm scum, i'm objectively not the town mvp. i just play so towny as scum that no one considers me as scum anyway, despite me making tons of decisions that push scum closer to winning. in this game everything that i've pushed for has put town closer to winning but i'm not getting townread in spite of it because i don't enjoy forcing towntells in the same way as scum that I do as town. if i were scum I'd just do the same thing I did in 14 of the other 15 scum games I played against titus where I play into her ego and pocket her and make her lose the game for me. on principle I don't pander to her when we're on the same team and if you don't like my interactions with her here you can at least recognize that they're the same interactions as in every other game where i've been town and done with her shit.

[RadiantCowbells]

this is just one game for you/0k but i've played this scenario out dozens of times and it always ends with titus lynching whoever doesn't pander to her enough.
i'm fed up with it. she can learn to play the game or she can lose games.

[Time Devil]

It was in this game btw

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=30839

I lost the game for town. You have no idea how fuckin shitty I felt. I hate letting the majority down

[Time Devil]

i dunno. you wouldn't expect aristophanes to solo win as scum in a lobby with Ellibereth and all the top town players on MS but that happened
i mean you can independently verify everything I'm saying: I did try to lead on chennis at a point where it was autowin for town if chennis got flipped.
I did make sure that Chennis was not put in the coalition pool, and even though I didn't hard object to Creature he wasn't like a first pick for me
I was the main reason Fusco got lynched D1, mbaki may have placed the first vote and my scumread on him may have been based off of incorrect associatives but it's a thing that happened
I wanted coalition and didn't get it. i had moongrass/mbaki going out of their way to make the game unplayable for me. la dee da

No offense to anyone but that seems like a weak scum team to me

I mean it wouldn’t be much stronger if you replaced overkill with me tbh

if i were scum we wouldn't still be playing this game though. like, if "weak scum team can't make it this far" is a rule, then "strong RC should have already won" is a rule as well.
and you can be damn sure if I were scum I would have played to win off the vengeful. I can't be targeted, titus is cleared, so maria has a 2/3 chance of losing the game there

all i had to do was use her hard townread on me and play off of her paranoia of you, that she repeatedly expressed, to win the game.
i instead discouraged her from targeting you and pushed her towards targeting Chennis

i'm not timid about pursuing my win conditions. there's literally no reason for scum me to allow the game to continue past yesterday.
i can quote a billion times over one of my rules as scum which is avoid 1v1s at all cost, but because of my play we're going to end in a lylo with a clear.


imagine if I had just let mbaki blow vengeful and rank and all the good powers earlier in the game and we had nothing left here. we would have just lost.
we didn't, because of me. the scumteam may have been weak but the town was just as bad.

This is true. When you’re right, you’re right

So why isn’t overkill dead yet? Let’s finish this

[Time Devil]

like... i'm objectively the town mvp. when i'm scum, i'm objectively not the town mvp. i

just play so towny as scum that no one considers me as scum anyway,

despite me making tons of decisions that push scum closer to winning. in this game everything that i've pushed for has put town closer to winning but i'm not getting townread in spite of it because i don't enjoy forcing towntells in the same way as scum that I do as town. if i were scum I'd just do the same thing I did in 14 of the other 15 scum games I played against titus where I play into her ego and pocket her and make her lose the game for me. on principle I don't pander to her when we're on the same team and if you don't like my interactions with her here you can at least recognize that they're the same interactions as in every other game where i've been town and done with her shit.

Right. This works hugely in your favor when you’re scum, but it is also why people like Titus are paranoid when you’re town

[RadiantCowbells]

because i don't actually know for sure that it's not you. i don't think it's you. but don't think it's you isn't good enough for me.

i saved rank for a reason.

[Time Devil]

this is just one game for you/0k but i've played this scenario out dozens of times and it always ends with titus lynching whoever doesn't pander to her enough.
i'm fed up with it. she can learn to play the game or she can lose games.

You shouldn’t let your frustration with Titus to let you play against your win condition. If Titus loses then the whole town loses. That’s not fair to nancefloor and all the other townies this game.

Town you should care about more than just one town player

[RadiantCowbells]

this is just one game for you/0k but i've played this scenario out dozens of times and it always ends with titus lynching whoever doesn't pander to her enough.
i'm fed up with it. she can learn to play the game or she can lose games.

You shouldn’t let your frustration with Titus to let you play against your win condition. If Titus loses then the whole town loses. That’s not fair to nancefloor and all the other townies this game.

Town you should care about more than just one town player

i mean, i tried to play to my win condition and continue to push for rank since it's objectively the best strategy in spite of Titus insisting that i'm pushing it as a scum strategy to get rid of her
i just won't kiss up to her and treat her like god's gift to mafia to prevent her from scumreading me.

[Time Devil]

because i don't actually know for sure that it's not you. i don't think it's you. but don't think it's you isn't good enough for me.

i saved rank for a reason.

So if we put you and I in the pool and I end up on top (which I’m sure you’d be happy with ), will that seal the deal for you that I’m scum?

Because if you and I are both town, I’m sure overkill would put me on top