Mini Normal 2081 — My First Game! [Game Over]

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE: I know we only have 24 hours but I wanna get this right

Huh
Why have my recent posts been townie?

1745 specifically read as genuine to me

I also think your reaction to Chenn makes sense from your pov and the fact that you admit some things don't make sense about Chenn!scum is a contradiction that I think you'd be too careful to make as scum.

[Dannflor]

LUV is at

L-2

if I counted correctly

[pisskop]

yea lets rope him

[skitter30]

I want to see a vc first but i can vote there

[Exilon]

@exi the posts in this page from dann are townie

I dont want to lynch him today

UNVOTE:
My initial reaction to his post where he unvoted was "omg I can't vote this guy, look at this"

Then I got paranoid thinking that he could actually be scum that got a bit caught in his own narrative, and was faking a genuine moment of "you're right this doesn't make sense to me". But if he did, then he's really good at it cause absolutely nothing there looked out of place for a townie reaction and process.

So no yeah I also can't vote there

[Exilon]

...Dann's case I really like, though.

I wanna hear LUV's response on it and also some more thoughts from Metta.
But I'm like 70% sold on it

[Lil Uzi Vert]

also, putting this out there: I feel like the difficulty I've had in getting this wagon to go anywhere on luv indicates that he's scum too

as his scumbuddy hasn't wanted to get on and has been trying to create an alt wagon elsewhere - not sure exactly where but probs on me/cinn

which is why I still like chenn or exi for partner

According to that same logic, wouldn’t that make you scum? This feels like another reason you’re reaching for the stars with to scum read me.

Wagons stalling are NAI. All they tell you is that scum are already on the wagon, and said person who is being wagoned is town, or that scum are on the wagon and are willing to bus said person who is on the wagon, or the person is not willing to fight back because he or she believes the wagon will lose traction.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

the team should be in:

luv
exil
mel
dann

somewhat towny to be scum reading me at this point

especially for a player that came in under pressure like pisskop it would be much easier to play safer and stick to the more consensus reads

I wouldn’t call Sky an actual consensus scum read at the time he replaced in. And I wouldn’t call the votes on her at the time to be real pressure either due to the reasons Mena wanted to wagon her. I also recall Cinnamon didn’t have a read on Sky during that time either.

He’s listing you at the bottom there and in the post before that one he meekly states that he felt less about you. Meaning what exactly? To me that feels like a read thrown in rather then one that has some backing.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Would you still scum read me Mena if I claimed cop?

This whole convo was just weird.

Agreed

I think I'm voting in [Luv/Menalque] today, not sure which yet though

I asked PK this earlier and received the dial tone. Now I’m calling you, what was weird about it?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I want to buy this and I think I do but we now have the same problem I have with PK and that’s going to bug me to no end. There was no reason to claim here and I think you have a good understanding of why you shouldn’t have unless it was absolutely needed.

town are fucking stupid with their claims

I actually think premature claims are more likely town than scum because town usually don't know how to play PRs and they get nervous about dying/fucking up their role

This hasn’t been my experience and while I don’t doubt that it’s yours, I just don’t think the basic premise of most PRs are hard, especially in the Normal queue. I also think not claiming until absolutely necessary is something most players learn when playing mafia? Definitely here due to the Newbie queue.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Since I have intent anyway, I’m claiming town doctor enabler

This is why (1) I beloved the doctor claim (because my role means there has to be a doctor in the game and why (2) I was asking about whether it would be likely that there were 2 gates, because if not then I don’t believe chenn which I don’t think I do because 2 gates does solemn weird

Ah. Now see this makes a lot of sense actually in hindsight and is enough for me to overlook your case on me for the time being. I don’t think I can really fault you for not considering it being a red herring either.

UNVOTE:

I don’t know who I want to vote now.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

there totally could be a macho role and an enabler for the doctor

It just might be that the macho is a scum role

Huh? Macho doesn’t make sense for scum, especially with only 9 players. I can’t think of anything that would be given to scum here strong enough to warrant the modifier.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Now is the time to mention I dont quite have a super tr on exil?

anyone wanna share?

Still waiting on that reasoning bud.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Okay.

We lynch LUV today.

I've been overthinking, and LUV's ISO is a scum ISO. I already outlined an initial case against his early game when I entered the game myself in 205. Several others also mentioned how little he'd actually done. His questions were empty and he's not really sorting or looking to sort despite what was a stagnant game at the time.

I ask him for reads and he states a safe town read on Exilon before hedging or null reading everyone else he mentions in 206.

I've also expressed my gut dislike of his post giving intent. It's worse when you consider that he was about to hammer pisskop, but instead straight up OMGUSes Menalque in 435

I mention Hitei because I and the rest of town damn sure want to hear from here before anyone’s hammered.

Statements like this combined with his 355 seem very LAMIST and unnatural. He's too self conscious. All in all, there's a lot of posts that just tonally read all wrong here. Not just in OMGUSing Menalque but in the way he responded to Menalque's case in 452 and his question to me in 438 when I had already cased LUV a few times before. The latter feels like a disingenuous attempt to sort me.

Now, I did state I thought 1333 was a good post and townie. And to be honest, it's really the only post LUV has made that town pings me. Cinnamon, Exilon, Robb!slot, and even Skitter have town pinged me more than him. And reading into it, it's not a hard post to make as scum. It's just an analysis of why he doubts the pisskop claim that I honestly disagree with in a lot of ways. It feels like LUV is stretching to find reasons to justify his doubt of the claim. He devotes so much time and energy into explaining this and yet decides to keep pushing Menalque instead for seemingly OMGUS reasons.

i want gamma to play

We all do. We desperately need a pair of fresh eyes.

More LAMIST stuff I think.

The stuff that really makes me think LUV is forcing his scum read on Pisskop is that his specific doubt of the claim continues even AFTER Chenn claims macho, and I feel town!LUV would reconsider more. It's also strange to me that LUV doesn't try casing Pisskop's play more, and instead focuses on the claim so much in his casing. 1592 is a rehash of his last wall with no reconsideration after Chenn claims macho. I feel like with the new information you have to consider the claim could be valid, but instead LUV shades Chenn's claim by taking issue with the timing of it. HINT: Town rarely claims optimally.

Now I could ignore all of the above but when you not only start but insist on pushing on me for things that are very idiotic like fluff posting and stating intent on someone you were scum reading, I struggle with letting go.

LUV also repeatedly shades and discredits scum reads on him by calling them empty or idiotic. I can understand being frustrated if you don't understand exactly why you're being pushed like Cinnamon, but there's not really an attempt to understand here, it's just misrepping the reasons for pushing him and making them out to be stupid.

I think this is scum. It was my first scum read in the game and I think I was right.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Can we CFD this? At the very least it is a better lynch than any of chenn/Menalque/pisskop

And I think it flips red

You’re still overthinking Dan. Let’s talk about that initial case again.

In 205, you state you don’t like that I don’t have any scum reads but in the same breath, state it’s only page 8. You then follow it up with saying you only can accept that from one player. This is bad and it’s why I react to the cases and reads on me the way I do. It’s bad because while you acknowledged that it’s early, you’re clearly forcing a read here by mentioning Something Smart. Withholding a vote isn’t something that’s a unique to one or two specific players. Plenty of players do this and I find it hard to believe you have not seen players as town not want to vote until they feel confident or strongly about someone being scum

I think it is. I came up in an era where RVS lasted anywhere from 5 to 15 pages. This always gave me more than enough ways to make this phase useful and not just eliminate it. Here we weren’t able to make RVS useful because the reason we got out of it didn’t force enough interaction. I know this because the game was dead until you replaced in.

Can you show where in my ISO that I was hedging up until 205? In 63 and 69 I’m asking Mena why he thinks Skitter could be bussing and explaining why it would be unlikely. In 70 I tell Skitter I wasn’t defending her. In 105, I’m simply stating what’s on my mind and trying to see if another pair of eyes can guide me. I don’t have any scum reads up this until point and I’m not going to try to create any knowing their not something I believe and not real. I follow up the rest of the way through because that’s how Mena started suggesting I jump on a wagon. I’m not hedging here, I’m stating why I’m not going to wagon someone I don’t have a read on.

I can see why you think my read is safe on Exilon but I don’t see why aren’t trying to see why I town read him there. I don’t see why there’s an issue with my Rob read. He plays like that as either alignment so I find it a lot easier to just not engage him and reevaluate later for the overall atmosphere and health of the game state.

I’ll give you Skitter and all I can say again is that I wasn’t trying to read her in my last two completed games with her because I rolled scum. She does a really good job of emulating her town game as scum. She clearly takes pride in her scum game. Just look at how she’s been repeating that she wouldn’t do bussing and distancing the way people have accused her of here. You have acknowledged that she’s a good player, so why is it scummy to be cautious about reading her at that point?

—

Now on to your current case. Dan I’m considered to be decent to good as scum on this site for whatever reason. If I was too self-conscious, wouldn’t I have played a lot differently in the early game? If I’m as self-conscious as you claim, there wouldn’t be as much fluff posting, there wouldn’t be any hesitation on voting Skygazer, there wouldn’t be an issue with the reads in 206, and we probably wouldn’t be talking about me placing intent on PK.

How the hell is me laughing lamist? I had asked you why were you in scum reading me in 438 because I had addressed your concerns from the first time and I clearly didn’t see a reason to be scum read for stating intent.

What even is this point? I’m pushing Mena because he was a scum read at the time and the rest of the town didn’t want to lynch PK because of HIS CLAIM. Why would I not spend time convincing town why they shouldn’t let him live because of HIS CLAIM?

It’s not OMGUS. I pointed out that Mena was willing to lynch play over role by asking how he would react if I claimed a PR. I then pointed out that he had a scum read on PK and was clearly reading him on play in 487 but suddenly was not willing to lynch him after the claim. This is why I trashed his case because he’s scum reading me for fluff posting and not willing to apply pressure that he eroded himself and I pointed out how he did that in 462, and stating intent on PK. He was still going to maintain his scum read me if I had claimed a PR there for play that’s NAI over PK play who he had found more scummy prior to me stating intent. Do you understand that?

I mean all Chen’s modifier confirms is that there is most likely some sort of role that either blocks or protects most likely exist. This made me consider the possibility of PK being a scum jailkeeper as opposed to a roleblocker like Chen.

Uh like I just said, town are willing to overlook his PK’s play based on HIS CLAIM. Why would I not focus on HIS CLAIM? It’s the only thing that has saved him from the noose so why would I not spend time explaining why it could be unlikely.

I wouldn’t really say I shaded Chen but I’ll give you that one. Town not claiming optimally hasn’t been my overall experience on this site so.

And where am I misrepresenting Mena or PK in that post? I state why Mena didn’t want to lynch PK. He didn’t want to lynch him because of HIS CLAIM. There’s those words again. In that very same post, I’m explaining why the claim is probably unlikely or comes from scum. Where’s the misrepresentation here?

Yeah I called his cased idiotic because it was just that. I can see if I discredited it blindly without explaining why it is but I did explain why in 462, 659. As well as the conversation you found weird.

[Dannflor]

I'll respond to this when I get home tonight

Also don't want to clog the thread and let other people have a chance to check in first

[pisskop]

HIS CLAIM

yea but look at me im so town too :\

[pisskop]

I hope you all see that scum are using the stagnation to push and blend in with walls. Or spam.

[pisskop]

Intuition is why i sr exil. my massive body of games onsite gives me this intuition, and that same intuition is telling me that I cant go toetotoe with a wall poster who is polite and concise. because Id have to play the long endurance game and I dont do that. As town or scum I dont have that patience or even time. But I can iso it and look. and I can wait. I think we're in the right place.

[Dannflor]

Although LUV, one thing I would like you to answer before I respond is where would you like to lynch today? We have ~20 hours until deadline

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I hope you all see that scum are using the stagnation to push and blend in with walls. Or spam.

The entire game isn’t wall posting and how are posting walls blending in? A big block of text is naturally going to draw more attention than a short and concise post that has more potential to be missed when reading.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Although LUV, one thing I would like you to answer before I respond is where would you like to lynch today? We have ~20 hours until deadline

That I don’t know. I think Chen said it best, everyone is starting to look town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Except PK but y’all don’t want to lynch him.

[pisskop]

nah. scum has chats.

[pisskop]

Look for thechathacks

[Dannflor]

I don't know how you can imagine pisskop!scum in a world where Menalque is town and there is no doc counter claim.

I think you're hanging on to this scum read because there isn't actually anywhere else you can push convincingly, not because you actually believe in it.