Role Call I (Game Over)

[popsofctown]

I'm getting at that a difficult to read player seems like the best fit for the IC role.

That would be RC (The SSS hydra) then. They're hard to lynch without a hard guilty, yet everybody wants to lynch them from the word go anyway.

If the RC hydra is scum, theyll probably try for a flawless victory anyway, which means day5 is too late of a sorting for the slot.

Bad allocation there id say.

This is a terrible post. Why are you trying to appeal to fear like this? People talk up RC's reputation a lot but suggesting he can protect all of his partners with 100% reliability is flat absurd.

[Oversoul]

Oops. Your name isn’t Alchemist. That explains the confusion.

Vecna, are you saying that RC would tru as scum and not try as town? He does seem to be avoiding going this game options to post in a recently finished game.

[Sothis Stefon Styx]

I think Vecnas referring to Civilization Mafia.

When I replaced into a scum slot the first and third wagon were on scum.

Scum never got wagoned again from the moment I replaced in.

[popsofctown]

From what I know of RC he gives a similar high level of effort as both alignments making effort=town less indicative for him than it is in a vacuum. You have to read him with different methods.

[popsofctown]

Can my proposal assign an avatar to RC hydra

[Sothis Stefon Styx]

This is a low effort game from me because it's a hydra game and also because I'm fairly sure I die night one no matter what happens. I dunno.

[popsofctown]

Why are you positive you'll be NKed?

[Almost50]

Iconeum replaced into a game about a week before its wedding so we can policy lynch Iconeum here if you feel strongly about this

I'm not the king of PL's. Her's your man *Points @ Nero*

[Almost50]

OK... here's and unofficial proposition for you all..

Inactive = Hidden Happiness (Shadoweh/MariaR hydra)
Vanilla = Iconeum
Inventor = popsofctown
Timid = Oversoul
Miller = apthet
Neighbour = Nero Cain
1-shot Gladiator = momo
Day 3 King = Vecna
Night 1 Universal Backup = CheekyTeeky
Neighbour = Almost50
Odd-Night Motion Detector = Gamma Emerald
Macho = Lil Uzi Vert
Compulsive Quitter = Saudade
Day 5 Innocent Child = Sothis Stefon Styx (RadiantCowbells/Baezu hydra)

Explanation:

momo's my top TR. I initially wanted to give him the D3 King, but he requested the Gladiator so I decided to grant him his wish.

Vecna is my 2nd top Trm so he gets the D3 King

3rd is popsofctown. He probably has good reads so I would trust him with giving away the inventions (can switch with Vecna if they both feel like it)

Cheeky & SSS come next, but -as I said- I am paranoid about RC. I don't want to have that paranoia working against me for the whole game, so I decided to stick with my choice of giving that slot the IC and give Cheeky the Universal Backup.

Note: If RC is Town and Cheeky is somehow scum RV cannot be killed on N1 because Cheeky doesn't want to be guiltied on D5. If RC is scum and Cheely is town the NK should not be on a strong PR because RC doesn't want that to still be in town hands.
If they're both scum we've set one up for the lynch D5 and the other is easier to sort (Cheeky)

I don't have a read on Nero and I think we both can sort each other in a neighborhood (where we are likely to share a little bit more than we do in the main thread).

On the other end I obviously don't trust Saudade, and Maria doesn't want to be bothered with the "mechanics" anyway.

I was left with the Motion Detector to give to someone and then 4 roles that won't matter much, so I decided Gamma can have the MD and distributed the other 4 "however may be"

Disclaimer: You'd notice I have not submitted this as an official proposal, so nothing's carved in stone. This is but a draft to outline what I'm thinking and get the discussions going. Feel free to support/oppose any of the proposed assignments, provided you give more reasoning than "I don't like this" or "I don't want that"

[popsofctown]

Your win condition isn't to make momo happy it's to kill all the mafia.

If he's truly your top townread you should want him king.
I don't particularly want the gladiator ability to be on someone who's eager to use it. Gladiator days generate less information. It's only a half step away from governor where technically if you fire it very accurately it furthers the town wincon but overall you're subverting the protown mechanics of the game and it's negative utility really.

[Almost50]

@pops: I'll concede those are good points. Do you object to Vecna having King though?

[popsofctown]

Yeah I think 166 might be at least half as scummy as it is dumb so I'm not crazy about him becoming king.

I'd rather you be king

[momo]

I think our main priority should be figuring out who we town and scum read. Proposals can be made by multiple people and we should take advantage of that. This creates better debate than just one person making the proposal (whoever seems towny on D1). I can't remember of the top of my head who proposed that, but it seems like a really bad idea.

Long posts aren't really my style, but I feel like there's too much of a spammy feel going and not enough substansive content, so I feel pressured into making one.

That said these are my reads.

Town Tier (in no particular order)

Almost50 - It's been a while since I have played mafia but when I did, I think I played quite a bit with a50. As far as I remember, a50 plays town and scum fairly similar, with solid scumhunting being a priority, even if it means a little busing. However, the difference tends to be the tone. While some players use fake anger as scum, a50's scum game is played much more on building relationships and being supportive. He uses the strategy of pocketing well. Town a50, on the other hand, is more prone to using saracasm as seen in this post. It is very possible that his playstyle has evolved and I will need to do a deeper meta dive if we both make it to the later stages of the game, but for now, he is a townread.

Vecna - By far the towniest player in the game, imo. I may not agree with all his reads (for example a50) but I like the approach. Honestly, I don't have hardcore meta or logic reasons for this one. It's just the way I feel.

CheekyTeeky - I get the sense that CT is building her meta so that she can be spammy and hide as both town and scum. She's clearly beeen working on it but I don't think it's indistinguishable yet. I've only had time to really look at one of her scum games (this one) but it feels like she tries a little bit more when she is scum. I think that ingrained notion that you have to appear town gets to her. Given that this is a recent game, I'm assuming much hasn't changed since then. The vibes I'm getting from that game and this one are different, and therefore she is town.

Lil Uzi Vert - He only has five posts, so this may be very premature but I think he's town. Scum wouldn't want two of the towniest players being neighbors. That means that they can't silence them both without leaving the King alive for day 3. It would allow those players to live because there would be more pressing kills. Then, when one of them is killed, the other still has access to their thoughts and can use their name to convince people. That move would be too anti-scum for scum to propose.

popsofctown - I have never played with pops but they are showing a great ability to go against what is being accepted. Going against my the reasons for me saying people requesting a role was scum, but still thinking they are scum. Calling out a50 for the Independence Day thing, calling out Vecna, and exposing what would be ideal scum strats. This is town.

Iconeum - This is a weak read and he has said some scummy things. That said, just skimming through a couple of his past games, the tone feels town. This post would probably not come from scum with daytalk. He's treating this gamestate as time for a regular, early game RVS wagon. I don't think having two teammates with daychat would result in someone playing like this. Also, when he backs up his stance with this post, it makes him feel even more town.

The people that have substantial posts, but I'm not sure about

Hidden Happiness - The tone of these posts as happy seems like a real gimmick, created on purpose to make them hard to read. I don't think I have played with either one of the heads and have honestly no idea what to expect. This is the reason I don't like hydras. When you have a grasp on the individual heads, they're fine, but it's situations like these that make meta diving (as opposed to playing with them) weak and honestly annoying. I can't read these guys. If anyone has played with them, feel free to give your thoughts. That said, I would be most comfortable giving them an inconsequential role today.

No content

Apthet - Literally one post just saying he has to go away.

Nero Cain - He has seven posts but they aren't actually substantive. Just usual early game conversation. If this continues, it may be scummy, but for now, it's nothing.

Gamma Emerald - 4 posts. For me right now, the key to getting an early game read on him is clear. His fourth post, the one saying that he will probs have a lot of mechanical questions. I have played with him but it has been a while. For people that have played with Gamma more recently, is a normally mechanic intensive or not.

The Scum Team

As the subheading suggests, this is my scumteam. Given his lack of appearance in the earlier sections, RC is in this scum team (which I'll get to later). Coupled with that and daytalk, it is clear that the scum team has a strategy going into day one. The key, imo is to look for associations and more importantly common themes. I believe that a theme of disdain/disinterest can be found in the scumteam, at least until they get certain powers. Here is my logic.

RC/Baezu hydra - At the time of me starting to write this post, I don't think Baezu has posted yet. I believe that this is because of direction from RC. RC said that at least his head will be relatively inactive. This is the first piece of deception. Knowing RC, I highly doubt that he would allow two heads in a hydra to have completely different approaches. Furthermore, he expressed disappointment in the setup. RC is known for keeping arrogance throughout his meta, both as town and scum. I think he pushed this onto his scumbuddies as well. He knows that normally, his meta required him to be a leader. The perfect WIFOM manipulation would be sitting out the beginning. That said, RC is still active he is directing the other members of the scumteam.

Sadude - This bring us to Sadude. Sadude's own meta (in I think Micro 874 and 877) indicates that as scum he puts slightly less effort as town. He tries to appear more casual. RC in scum chat directs Sadude to appear disinterested in this game. For scum, it is key to manipulate the PRs and get at least one, if not two people into good position. The hardest part is surviving the early game. The easiest way for Sadude to do this is to be active but appear low effort. The disclaimer in the beginning is very telling.

Oversoul - Finally oversoul. He opens by saying "these roles are lame." He also requested roles. On top of this, Oversoul had light buses on both RC and Sadude. Nothing substantial and nothing he needs to commit to, but they are there. This one for Sadude and this one for RC. He is right, RC is active, and he is directing this scum game.

Baezu is also normally an active player. His lack of activity shows clearly that RC is calling shots - private and at a degree of extremity he wouldn't use as town. As of right now, I think this is the scum team.

[Gamma Emerald]

@all: which player are you least confident in your ability to read?

Anyone I don't know and Saudade

??
since when have you read me right lol

Reread the question dingo

[momo]

Your win condition isn't to make momo happy it's to kill all the mafia.

If he's truly your top townread you should want him king.
I don't particularly want the gladiator ability to be on someone who's eager to use it. Gladiator days generate less information. It's only a half step away from governor where technically if you fire it very accurately it furthers the town wincon but overall you're subverting the protown mechanics of the game and it's negative utility really.

This post, is town. Especially considering that you say this even though you clarify that you think a50 is town in your next post.

Yeah I think 166 might be at least half as scummy as it is dumb so I'm not crazy about him becoming king.

I'd rather you be king

However, idk about 166 being scummy. RC may not be going for a flawless victory, but regardless of alignment he will be going for a victory. By day 5, it probs will be too late to sort him.

a50, i scumread RC. I also don't think we can afford to wait till day 5 for him to be our IC. We have to figure it out earlier.

[Almost50]

I'd rather you be king

No, thanks. I mean, I'm much obliged, but that's a BIG responsibility that I'd rather give to someone who has both good reads and a strong personality. (My reads can vary from game to game, but a town leader I know I am not)

P-edit: It took me some time to read that post, but it confirms my read on momo (and why I wanted him to be King initially). Thanks for being a townie, momo

[Almost50]

@momo:

1- Why do you SR RC?
2- My point was "you can SR RC all you want, but getting him lynched w/o an explicit guilty is a pain in the arse", and I see no other investigative roles on the list top use on the slot.

[Gamma Emerald]

I was in the shower right now and realized the first thought I had when entering this game is how and which PRs I want to distribute in the town rather than which PR I want to take for myself therefore I scumread anyone asking for a specific role for himself and townread everyone who suggested a PR onto someone else

Even though I like this post, scum will also be thinking along the lines of who they want to assign what role to, to optimize their odds of high impact lynches and nks.

I agree with this as scum could maneuver a powerful PR onto their planned NK and take care of 2 problems.

[Gamma Emerald]

Riruka-san was telling me that people were reading my first post as scummy. Well, I think the way I want to go about this at least for myself is give me a role that I find fun with and then give the stronger powers to lynchbait/people on the weaker side. I think giving townreads not as strong powers at least early would make nightkills extremely telling if someone killed say a macho/inactive towny over someone with the inventor etc. I think it's a good way to force information out.
For example, I know for a fact we'll probably not get King as I want, but we should probably give it to once again, a lynchbait player and see if we can agree on someone for them to king the day before or after and see if mafia let them live or not.

Okay can I never talk about mech again thanks. I'll get super bored fast. In terms of reads...
VOTE: Vecna
10 points if anyone else sees what I see.
~Orihime

Nope

[popsofctown]

Ew, preflip associatives. Why do people do those? Especially day 1?

No one seems to see Vecna the same way as me huh. I wonder if I would read him differently with a different avatar. I hate that tv show.

[momo]

@momo:

1- Why do you SR RC?
2- My point was "you can SR RC all you want, but getting him lynched w/o an explicit guilty is a pain in the arse", and I see no other investigative roles on the list top use on the slot.

Baezu's silence, the connections in between my other scum reads and him. Especially paired with his normal activity, both in games and around sites. It would be a really smart move for scum RC to declare that he's going to lurk day one.

Of my 3 SRs, I would probs lynch RC last. However, if any one of those two flip scum, the ties to RC become much stronger.

Either way, RC is very hard to read. The best use of the

inactive

role, imo, would be for someone like RC. If he is town, then great. He can help us scum hunt and the incentives to lynch a player like RC would be much lower if we make him inactive. That way town RC stays alive and helps us.

If he is scum, then he can't use any abilities.

Giving RC inactive is probably the easiest decision we have to make today.

This also works out perfectly because the HH hydra is hard to read. Day 5, we get a confirmed read. Just swapping those two would make your proposal better.

[momo]

Ew, preflip associatives. Why do people do those? Especially day 1?

No one seems to see Vecna the same way as me huh. I wonder if I would read him differently with a different avatar. I hate that tv show.

I agree that pre-flip associatives are normally not that strong of a play. If you're wrong, it really messes with your reads for the game.

That said, Baezu's silence is really telling to me. RC def told him to stay quite and then post in this thread saying that he would be quite but acting as if he didn't know about Baezu. If the RC/baezu hydra is scum, which I think it is, associatives are a strong bet.

The best part is, both Oversoul (for his requesting roles) and Sadude (his meta with Micro 874 and 877) are independently scummy. If you have 3 independently scummy people, and you see associations in between them, it makes sense to think that they are scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

my prediction for this game when I saw the d1 roles was that scum would try to push IC on their most lynchable member.

Actually is how that works detailed?

[popsofctown]

All players are multiacting and both the NK and the rolestop are factional. Deactivating RC does very little. If Day2 has a watcher it maybe helps scum!RC's partner not misplay, lol. Oh, actually we have motion detector today there's that.

An inactive RC is weakened as last scum standing but I thought your stance was that you agree with Vecna about presuming a game with a lategame scum!RC is lost (which I still think is toxick and defeatist)

[Gamma Emerald]

Theres only 1 king in this table Vecna

Ok Xander