Newbie 1943: Crosswords (Game Over)

[Baezu]

Sera Masumi replaces connorcompton. Please welcome them.

Still looking for replacement for Phone0Ix

[Spangled]

Hello, Sera Masumi. If you catch-up, please react by and large to the whole of this thread.
And not catching up is fairly scum indicative, so keep that in mind.

[cyrus62]

maybe we will start to get reads now

[Spangled]

That would be nice - and maybe by people's reactions to the reactions I hope our replacement will display we will find further reason to town/scum-read people.

[Sera Masumi]

Hi, I'm your replace-in person for connor. Since it was asked at the beginning of the game, I have roughly ~10-15 games at another site. If you want to take a look I'm happy to give you the info, but it's played pretty differently over there (much faster days for one thing) so I'm uncertain it will necessarily give you that much valuable intel.

Now before anything else I want to comment on something I'm deeply uncomfortable with.

well good hopefully we can get some convors going and make some reads don't get me wrong i like you all but maybe the reason we haven't had no leads is because the scum replaced out. what do you think? @everyone .

I think that could be true. Like we have some SRs/SLs flying round between Temporal, Red, and Robb, but I think they're all

probably

town.
You mean connor/Phone (by people who have replaced out) right?

This is a Bad Take, OPs. If you have townreads on everybody except the paths of absolute least resistance, that indicates to me that you probably have too many townreads, not that scum happen to be the easiest targets in the game and just happily going along with that. Like, I have no idea how to read phone here, and there are questions I'd like to ask but phone replaced out, so I'll never be able to ask them. Hopefully the replacement slot will give more information. Connor is pretty clearly somebody that just started to play the game and then replaced out after deciding forum mafia was not for him or something; he made one post and then never returns. Both these slots are null as hell in my opinion, and this method of shutting down thought and just going for the easiest route possible feels like an easy way to setup a couple mislynches that give the town very little info.

The way that cyrus is continually tilting shade at this slot and arguing for a lynch even after the replacement request is sent in (See #360) is really worrying me. I honestly have no idea why cyrus-town argues for this. Wagoning somebody who made a grand total of 1 post before being forcibly replaced that you don't seem to find particularly suspicious before a replacement can even show up is a completely terrible exercise; there's very little to analyze from the roleflip in terms of the lynchee's content, there's very little association because there isn't much for people to comment on or engage with, and you don't give the role the ability to claim and therefore potentially ram a lynch on a power role through. I can definitely see why scum would engage in this sort of exercise, but I'm bewildered as to why the idea would even enter town's head. I'm also not very comfortable with the fact that cyrus floats this possibility out there and doesn't, you know, vote my or phone's slot. Just kinda tosses it out into the aether for consideration without putting any real feeling behind it. (I kind of feel the same about Spangled, but at least Spangled is being much more tentative about this.) It's not like cyrus is doing anything with his vote right now anyway, last I saw he was still on his RVS vote which he had just dispatched. I'm not even sure how it fits into Cyrus worrying about Red earlier or right before that saying that we have no leads over 370 posts into the game.

Like, I'm really skeptical of two decently-experienced townies suddenly seeing this as a good idea totally organically, so one of Spangled and Cyrus is quite plausibly scum. And Spangled at least still seems to be doing things like looking at Adorable and crosschecking after making that declaration, indicating a degree of paranoia that I'm looking for, and just in general in comparison to 388, I think 389 and 390 just read a bit better from a townie mindset. That said, I could totally see Spangled-scum egging on a really bad impulse from town-cyrus here, and I really don't want to rule that out. But in general Cyrus making this play feels a lot more "yikes" to me.

I'm decently confident that one of Spangled or cyrus is scum, and certain that they aren't scum together; that last conversation between them absolutely would have occurred in a private topic if they were. Pretty sure neither of them are scum with phone either if they are going to try and play things this way. I think Cyrus looks worse in this bit (I also recall some of Cyrus' posts reading as kind of forced in my first readthrough, but I wasn't sure if that was because they were forced or just how cyrus' posts would generally read), but it could still probably go either way.

I have no idea what Temporal is doing with his reads this game, they feel all over the place to me and honestly he's probably my best candidate outside cyrus. I'm really not getting the Town v. Town Robb-Temp reads here and would like somebody to explain it to me like I'm 5.

Robb and Redflag both feel pretty town, as does Adorable to a slightly lesser extent. Gun to my head? I say Spangled probably has a Town role, though I'm not betting the horse on it. Phone I have no idea how to read but the fact that I can really only imagine Redflavor as a partner (maaaybe Cyan and Rob? Maaaybe?) is making me think his slot is probably town just through POE. I'll see how the replacement handles it. Cyan I'm super "meh" on at the moment.

I'm going to go through the game again and do some proper notes and a couple questions for players after I get a little sleep (I'm #YOLOing sleep deprived atm) before I vote, but my immediate reads are

TOWN: Robb, Redflavor, Sera (Confirmed town in my role PM guys she's legit)
LEAN-TOWN: Adorable, phone (tentative, if Flavor is scum phone is decently likely to be, otherwise meh)
NULL: Cyan, Spangled (alternating between this and in the lean-town bracket; I'm hoping a reread will force me to pick a side there)
LEAN SCUM: Cyrus, Temporal

I'm not inclined to lynch anything above null right now, and would much prefer Cyrus or Temp over Cyan and Spangled (given how Cyrus has engaged with the Cyan slot, and vice-versa). I could see myself joining that Temp wagon, but atm I honestly feel a little better about a Cyrus lynch.

Will be on a plane tomorrow, so catch-up post might not be until Tuesday if I end up sleeping all night, which I probably will.

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11086531]
And not catching up is fairly scum indicative, so keep that in mind.[/quote]

I'm curious

1. Why you feel this way
2. Why would tell me this before I post, since it seems like a useful tell to have in your pocket.

[cyrus62]

Hi, I'm your replace-in person for connor. Since it was asked at the beginning of the game, I have roughly ~10-15 games at another site. If you want to take a look I'm happy to give you the info, but it's played pretty differently over there (much faster days for one thing) so I'm uncertain it will necessarily give you that much valuable intel.

Now before anything else I want to comment on something I'm deeply uncomfortable with.

well good hopefully we can get some convors going and make some reads don't get me wrong i like you all but maybe the reason we haven't had no leads is because the scum replaced out. what do you think? @everyone .

I think that could be true. Like we have some SRs/SLs flying round between Temporal, Red, and Robb, but I think they're all

probably

town.
You mean connor/Phone (by people who have replaced out) right?

This is a Bad Take, OPs. If you have townreads on everybody except the paths of absolute least resistance, that indicates to me that you probably have too many townreads, not that scum happen to be the easiest targets in the game and just happily going along with that. Like, I have no idea how to read phone here, and there are questions I'd like to ask but phone replaced out, so I'll never be able to ask them. Hopefully the replacement slot will give more information. Connor is pretty clearly somebody that just started to play the game and then replaced out after deciding forum mafia was not for him or something; he made one post and then never returns. Both these slots are null as hell in my opinion, and this method of shutting down thought and just going for the easiest route possible feels like an easy way to setup a couple mislynches that give the town very little info.

The way that cyrus is continually tilting shade at this slot and arguing for a lynch even after the replacement request is sent in (See #360) is really worrying me. I honestly have no idea why cyrus-town argues for this. Wagoning somebody who made a grand total of 1 post before being forcibly replaced that you don't seem to find particularly suspicious before a replacement can even show up is a completely terrible exercise; there's very little to analyze from the roleflip in terms of the lynchee's content, there's very little association because there isn't much for people to comment on or engage with, and you don't give the role the ability to claim and therefore potentially ram a lynch on a power role through. I can definitely see why scum would engage in this sort of exercise, but I'm bewildered as to why the idea would even enter town's head. I'm also not very comfortable with the fact that cyrus floats this possibility out there and doesn't, you know, vote my or phone's slot. Just kinda tosses it out into the aether for consideration without putting any real feeling behind it. (I kind of feel the same about Spangled, but at least Spangled is being much more tentative about this.) It's not like cyrus is doing anything with his vote right now anyway, last I saw he was still on his RVS vote which he had just dispatched. I'm not even sure how it fits into Cyrus worrying about Red earlier or right before that saying that we have no leads over 370 posts into the game.

Like, I'm really skeptical of two decently-experienced townies suddenly seeing this as a good idea totally organically, so one of Spangled and Cyrus is quite plausibly scum. And Spangled at least still seems to be doing things like looking at Adorable and crosschecking after making that declaration, indicating a degree of paranoia that I'm looking for, and just in general in comparison to 388, I think 389 and 390 just read a bit better from a townie mindset. That said, I could totally see Spangled-scum egging on a really bad impulse from town-cyrus here, and I really don't want to rule that out. But in general Cyrus making this play feels a lot more "yikes" to me.

I'm decently confident that one of Spangled or cyrus is scum, and certain that they aren't scum together; that last conversation between them absolutely would have occurred in a private topic if they were. Pretty sure neither of them are scum with phone either if they are going to try and play things this way. I think Cyrus looks worse in this bit (I also recall some of Cyrus' posts reading as kind of forced in my first readthrough, but I wasn't sure if that was because they were forced or just how cyrus' posts would generally read), but it could still probably go either way.

I have no idea what Temporal is doing with his reads this game, they feel all over the place to me and honestly he's probably my best candidate outside cyrus. I'm really not getting the Town v. Town Robb-Temp reads here and would like somebody to explain it to me like I'm 5.

Robb and Redflag both feel pretty town, as does Adorable to a slightly lesser extent. Gun to my head? I say Spangled probably has a Town role, though I'm not betting the horse on it. Phone I have no idea how to read but the fact that I can really only imagine Redflavor as a partner (maaaybe Cyan and Rob? Maaaybe?) is making me think his slot is probably town just through POE. I'll see how the replacement handles it. Cyan I'm super "meh" on at the moment.

I'm going to go through the game again and do some proper notes and a couple questions for players after I get a little sleep (I'm #YOLOing sleep deprived atm) before I vote, but my immediate reads are

TOWN: Robb, Redflavor, Sera (Confirmed town in my role PM guys she's legit)
LEAN-TOWN: Adorable, phone (tentative, if Flavor is scum phone is decently likely to be, otherwise meh)
NULL: Cyan, Spangled (alternating between this and in the lean-town bracket; I'm hoping a reread will force me to pick a side there)
LEAN SCUM: Cyrus, Temporal

I'm not inclined to lynch anything above null right now, and would much prefer Cyrus or Temp over Cyan and Spangled (given how Cyrus has engaged with the Cyan slot, and vice-versa). I could see myself joining that Temp wagon, but atm I honestly feel a little better about a Cyrus lynch.

Will be on a plane tomorrow, so catch-up post might not be until Tuesday if I end up sleeping all night, which I probably will.

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11086531]
And not catching up is fairly scum indicative, so keep that in mind.

I'm curious

1. Why you feel this way
2. Why would tell me this before I post, since it seems like a useful tell to have in your pocket.[/quote yes yes its easyer to find reads when you only have 2 post ofc this isnt your doing and it has been said that when noobs role scum on thire 1st game they replace out. so yes connar hasnt posted since the 4th what am i to think of that . then you have phone who also replaced out and voted on him self in rvs so yes we see that as scummy . i been trying to read every one here and the ones with the most post are me and spangled so yes after sorting him and knowing my self thire just wasnt enogh by any one else to from reads . as of now your still null to me

[TemporalLich]

I'm tentatively assuming Sera is town... but I strongly disagree cyrus could be scum.

cyrus only said red thinks phone is town and that I think red is scum, nothing about cyrus having any proper reads.

Don't see anything that would contraindicate a cyrus/spangled scumteam besides those two being high TRs. It's still outlandish, but it's not like a red flip from one makes the other confirmed town.

The interaction with me and Robb is said to be TvT because it went to a point where we were pretty much hard bussing each other.

but yeah I'm inclined to hard TR cyrus

[Sera Masumi]

yes yes its easyer to find reads when you only have 2 post ofc this isnt your doing and it has been said that when noobs role scum on thire 1st game they replace out. so yes connar hasnt posted since the 4th what am i to think of that .

I don't expect you to think anything? What is the difference between somebody who posts once and then doesn't post anymore because they're scum, and somebody who posts once and then doesn't post anymore because they didn't like the game? How do I tell one from the other?

i been trying to read every one here and the ones with the most post are me and spangled so yes after sorting him and knowing my self thire just wasnt enogh by any one else to from reads .

Tell me more about your read on Spangled, actually, you haven't really said a lot about them today.

cyrus only said red thinks phone is town and that I think red is scum, nothing about cyrus having any proper reads.
Don't see anything that would contraindicate a cyrus/spangled scumteam besides those two being high TRs. It's still outlandish, but it's not like a red flip from one makes the other confirmed town.

1. You think scum would really write that 388-400 exchange together? Because I don't.
2. I believe I linked the post where Cyrus indicates that he doesn't have reads because the game isn't giving him that much information? (#374, he also says we have "no leads" in the post I quoted).

[Spangled]

This is a Bad Take, OPs. If you have townreads on everybody except the paths of absolute least resistance, that indicates to me that you probably have too many townreads, not that scum happen to be the easiest targets in the game and just happily going along with that.

I will freely admit that I have too many basic townreads, but it's silly for you to assume I don't have cases that I'm building in my head, and that I'm waiting for people that I'm currently saying I'm townreading to slip up. This might be a bad position if I took it very far, but I am not taking it all that far.

Wagoning somebody who made a grand total of 1 post

cyrus was not wagoning anyone in 360; he was just thinking about it. To wagon someone is to truly push and get everyone involved; cyrus was not doing anything of the sort. He was suggesting a thought.
And, let's face it, connor's slot does have scum equity; that vote on Robb was hella suspicious.

and you don't give the role the ability to claim and therefore potentially ram a lynch on a power role through

I hope you're not soft-claiming PR here.

I'm also not very comfortable with the fact that cyrus floats this possibility out there and doesn't, you know, vote my or phone's slot.

So you don't like that he pushed a random thought out and then didn't act on it when you've previously said he was making a wagon (indicating action)...? You can't have it both ways.

Spangled-scum

I don't mean to sound condescending (although it make come off like that), but a cool thing we do on this forum is say scum!Spangled rather than Spangled-scum. To me it has a better ring to it (as it were).

1. Why you feel this way
2. Why would tell me this before I post, since it seems like a useful tell to have in your pocket

1. Not catching up indicates a lack of a willingness to engage - the action and attitude, I believe, of scum. 'Nuff said. (If you disagree, feel free to give me reasons).
2. Because on the whole I want you to engage with the thread; I'd rather be able to push a lynch of you based on sketchy things you said in a catch-up than just SR you on a lack of helpful contributions. (Or, of course, townread you based on your catchup). I'm also acknowledging you as a thinking person, potentially of the town; you too can provide helpful contributions.

[Spangled]

but I strongly disagree cyrus could be scum.

Echoing this thought right here.

[Spangled]

This is a Bad Take, OPs. If you have townreads on everybody except the paths of absolute least resistance, that indicates to me that you probably have too many townreads, not that scum happen to be the easiest targets in the game and just happily going along with that.

I will freely admit that I have too many basic townreads, but it's silly for you to assume I don't have cases that I'm building in my head, and that I'm waiting for people that I'm currently saying I'm townreading to slip up. This might be a bad position if I took it very far, but I am not taking it all that far.

And it was a little bit wishful thinking.

[Spangled]

The interaction with me and Robb is said to be TvT because it went to a point where we were pretty much hard bussing each other.

Aye I don't think you too were SvSing, certainly.

[Spangled]

Robb, can you give us your perspectives on... everything, basically.
You too, RF.

[cyrus62]

Robb, can you give us your perspectives on... everything, basically.
You too, RF.

rob went vla

[cyrus62]

yes yes its easyer to find reads when you only have 2 post ofc this isnt your doing and it has been said that when noobs role scum on thire 1st game they replace out. so yes connar hasnt posted since the 4th what am i to think of that .

I don't expect you to think anything? What is the difference between somebody who posts once and then doesn't post anymore because they're scum, and somebody who posts once and then doesn't post anymore because they didn't like the game? How do I tell one from the other?

i been trying to read every one here and the ones with the most post are me and spangled so yes after sorting him and knowing my self thire just wasnt enogh by any one else to from reads .

Tell me more about your read on Spangled, actually, you haven't really said a lot about them today.

cyrus only said red thinks phone is town and that I think red is scum, nothing about cyrus having any proper reads.
Don't see anything that would contraindicate a cyrus/spangled scumteam besides those two being high TRs. It's still outlandish, but it's not like a red flip from one makes the other confirmed town.

1. You think scum would really write that 388-400 exchange together? Because I don't.
2. I believe I linked the post where Cyrus indicates that he doesn't have reads because the game isn't giving him that much information? (#374, he also says we have "no leads" in the post I quoted).

seeing it as it is yes it can be either of the two . however i did not like the fact that the thread got held by these two. i already sorted every one i could and came back to phone and connar

[cyrus62]

i dont see how spangled could be anything but town hes looking for scum and doing reads

[Sera Masumi]

seeing it as it is yes it can be either of the two . however i did not like the fact that the thread got held by these two. i already sorted every one i could and came back to phone and connar

But connor was getting replaced after making one post all game? The game was holding up because he quit the game and they needed to find someone else. Turns out Phone was basically the same way. Why is that suspicious to the point that you'd shade somebody getting replaced with one post that you didn't seem to find particularly suspicious instead of poking at other players?

Actually can we cut to the chase and have you explain why you thought arguing to lynch somebody being replaced before their replacement entered was a good idea?

i dont see how spangled could be anything but town hes looking for scum and doing reads

Scum can pretend to do those things though? Phone gave reads. I gave reads. Everyone in the game has given reads at one point or another. What about Spangled's hunting feels genuine to you?

[Spangled]

Like, I'm really skeptical of two decently-experienced townies

Please keep in mind, I'm not decently experienced as a member of the town. This is my first town game (I'm playing another at the moment but this one I got started in before that; I'm not breaking site rules by implying anything).

[Spangled]

Scum can pretend to do those things though? Phone gave reads. I gave reads. Everyone in the game has given reads at one point or another. What about Spangled's hunting feels genuine to you?

Pretty sure you're not scumclaiming or outing your partner here, but the wording is ambiguous.

[cyrus62]

seeing it as it is yes it can be either of the two . however i did not like the fact that the thread got held by these two. i already sorted every one i could and came back to phone and connar

But connor was getting replaced after making one post all game? The game was holding up because he quit the game and they needed to find someone else. Turns out Phone was basically the same way. Why is that suspicious to the point that you'd shade somebody getting replaced with one post that you didn't seem to find particularly suspicious instead of poking at other players?

and i know this how you cant just jump and and think or this person said that since the person i am replaceing could be scum becuse of only one post and un able to make reads becuse of it must be scum

Actually can we cut to the chase and have you explain why you thought arguing to lynch somebody being replaced before their replacement entered was a good idea?

what it was a thought since no one was posting and i had already sorted every one else

i dont see how spangled could be anything but town hes looking for scum and doing reads

Scum can pretend to do those things though? Phone gave reads. I gave reads. Everyone in the game has given reads at one point or another. What about Spangled's hunting feels genuine to you?

[Spangled]

Personally I think Sera maybe town, but I'm not counting the opposite possibility out yet.
They are staying in the null pile.

Pedit:
cyrus that post has somehow messed up in formatting.

[Spangled]

@Sera
I'd take a TL lynch as a compromise, but not a cyrus one. No way. To me he is towning it all the way up this game, and displays good reasoning and town-thinking in so many places.

[Spangled]

Looking back, I like posts like 157 and 136 and 137 and 127 a fair bit.
I do feel a little less confident in my cyrus read, having reread his ISO, but he's till fairly town for me.

[Sera Masumi]

Scum can pretend to do those things though? Phone gave reads. I gave reads. Everyone in the game has given reads at one point or another. What about Spangled's hunting feels genuine to you?

Pretty sure you're not scumclaiming or outing your partner here, but the wording is ambiguous.

Unless you think I'm claiming that everyone in this game is my scumpartner (since that is an additional subset of "X can do these things too"), I was just using "scum" as a broad categorization and listing two people that cyrus has been voicing suspicion of lately, including myself, as examples. Be a pretty dumb scumslip tbh, but then I suppose they aren't many "smart" scumslips.

Like, I'm really skeptical of two decently-experienced townies

Please keep in mind, I'm not decently experienced as a member of the town. This is my first town game (I'm playing another at the moment but this one I got started in before that; I'm not breaking site rules by implying anything).

Fair enough.

and i know this how you cant just jump and and think or this person said that since the person i am replaceing could be scum becuse of only one post and un able to make reads becuse of it must be scum

I'm... not sure what you're saying here. Rephrase?

what it was a thought since no one was posting and i had already sorted every one else

Why didn't you want to wait until connor had somebody replace in that could give you more information for a read, and also be available to claim, and improve your reads on other players, and instead engage with other posters in order to more effectively sort them, etc etc? Like, let's look at it this way. You lynch connor's slot in the next couple days before somebody replaces in. Connor flips town. What does that tell you? How do you use that to get information to hit scum on D2? Hell, what does him flipping scum really tell you and how do you use that information? And how is this preferable to just waiting for a replacement?

PRE-EDIT: @Spangled- 127 and 136 do a little for me, I admit, but I'm still pretty "eeeeh" about the slot. I think I'm probably done with feelers at this point and if I can't sleep I'll go do my reread and firm things up; I'm fine with a Temporal wagon overall if people don't buy a cyrus one.

[Sera Masumi]

Okay let's go wheee. I ended up adding in links roughly halfway through so a few of these are you going to need to find yourself but it's 4:30 AM and I just don't have the energy after writing up this wall to go add more links lol.

Spoiler: Notes

#19- I don't like the way cyrus completely caves on his stance in 18 like 20 minutes later.
I actually really like rob's poking of Temp in #29 and #31.
Robb and teacher in 33-41 is absolutely not Scum v. Scum. Got it. I don't really get Temp's vote there.
#51- I like how aggro Rob is being without even bothering to try and getting any pro-town players on-side. I haven't seen his scum game but this feels really genuine.
#62 and #64 read pretty awk to me; I'm still not sure if it's cyrus I'm reading or This Game's Cyrus, though. Rob's poking him in #65 is still good.
Adorable's Post #69 is kinda vaguely contributive, which is good, but kinda nothing too.
Robb's Post #79 is also genuine as fuck.
I don't agree with Adorable's #85 but I like the thought process behind it.
Cyrus' #86 gets a wince from me, even if I'm not quite sure why.
Robb's #96 is also really genuine and good, but I'm saying that about a lot of his posts.

I like Redflavor's #105 because that's more or less what I'd be asking in that position.

Temp's #112 and #114 is weird. He puts Phone as leaning-scum but is unwilling to vote him over Rob, and he's voting Rob for reasons that he never quite explained. When Rob pokes him about it, he admits that Robb has been looking more townie, but that phone is a "bad vote" for claiming scum even though that was enough to put him on the scum-side of his scumlist (??????) He then says 34 is scummy again without saying why.

120 is admittedly not great.

126 is pretty solid analysis, I like it. I like cyrus' shaming Adorable for his town read on rob in 127 a lot less.

131 is also pretty good analysis and I completely agree with it, so townie points there. I agree with the reads in 138 and think that overall the analysis reads as genuine and things that I could have written.

I don't mind #143 overall, but I find it a bit odd that Adorable would cast stones on the Robb voters without naming or shaming any of the people they have in mind. His elaboration in #147 isn't terrible in building on that, though.

I'm noting 151 for later.

Meanwhile in Post 159 land, instead of voting that self-voter that Temp seemed to find suspicious or Robb who he was talking about finding suspicious, he's voting compton who he had as null based off that one post, and as Robb then points out, is backtracking away from his read on Robb seemingly because people called him town despite doubling-down on it in 119. It's also worth noting that he's voting compton right after Adorable calls him suspicious.

161 is just terrible. After Robb then calls him out on it, instead of actually expaining himself and what made him think Robb was town now, he just swings back to his Robb vote. His really awkward spin in 163 that Robb saying that he should "claim scum" is a request for him to claim is a massive reach too.

In 175 he says that it's because people argued that Robb was town. I don't find this all that convincing because it's not like he actually notes those arguments or why he finds them compelling in either here or his unvote, or why Robb's post suddenly makes those arguments moot. It's basically literally saying "people are no longer finding you scummy anymore so I'm going to try and find someone else to potentially mislynch".

I don't really like the way Cyan seems to kind of flip-flop on the Robb-Temp exchange in 177 and 178 and never really lands on a particular side. It feels icky and opportunistic. 180 is slightly closer but I wish Cyan had taken a stronger stance here.

185 is really bad. "You negated my townread on you by finding something you found scummy and calling me scum for it!" (??????????)

Adorable's 201 vote is quite good and sound.

I don't like 204that much, it feels like someone trying to have their cake and eat it too.

I do really like 206 though.

Temp's 208 is pretty bad too. This comes like 100 posts too late and is just a bland echo of Cyrus' 89, more or less. And I really dislike how Temp commented two posts later and said absolutely nothing about it at the time.

I'm not a fan of how Cyris goes from "people are organic and while past games are often an indicator, people change their play and so one needs to be careful about single game metas" in 159 to "I'm playing exactly how I was in my last town game!" in 215.

I want anybody to tell me how the evolution from 241's "there's no way Robb is ever town" to 245's ("Robb and Temp is TvT") literally an hour apart. Also he shifts his vote to Cyan, the main other wagon at the moment, and says he suspects Red, who other people are getting suspicious of.

If Temp is scum, one of Spangled, Cyrus (#252), Adorable (#257) and Cyan's #271 is almost certainly Temp's partner backing them. Also Temp's #260 really feels stilted to me.

I'm actually willing to accept 269 and be willing to give Cyan another day or so and see how that works out, since I think I have bigger scumreads.

I'd actually like some elaboration on 277. I agree with his 279 and 280 posts regarding teacher and phone, though.

Spangled's 308 case against Temp is decent.

I really don't like Temporal trying to spin a playstyle difference with Red into a scumtell in 319 and 340. Contrast with Robb's 316 and 317.

I find the idea in 343 that Red is currently Temp's only scumread rather strange when he's currently voting Cyan and had that weird posturing post toward phone in 337. And am deeply uncomfortable with this "A PL on Red is fine" nonsense.

I'm also deeply uncomfortable with more posturing at phone after more people start finding him suspicious in 403 after the context provided in 359. Temp's suspicions and votes consistently seem to be timed with consensus opinion and echoing others and that makes me deeply uncomfortable. I like Red calling this out in 407.

I kind of like Red not biting on the easy Connor lynch in 365.

So, I'm a little tired and not going to do a full read of everybody like I said I was going to, my notes are there if you want to take a look. I'll try and do a summary later. But I will say that this strongly strengthened my townread on Spangled, slightly strengthened my read on Adorable, and weakened my townread on Red slightly. It also gave me... a slight boost on Cyrus? Not much of one though. That said, Temp is honestly reading worse to me right now. Let's add a vote there and see how it goes. I don't see much of a problem of putting him at L-2 at this point, since I don't see going anywhere else today unless something happens and L-2 isn't insta-death.

TOWN: Spangled, Robb, Adorable
LEAN TOWN: Redflavor, Phone
NULL: Cyan
LEAN SCUM: Cyrus, Temporal

VOTE: TemporalLich

Also Temp why do you think I'm town now?