Newbie 1943: Crosswords (Game Over)

[cyrus62]

please dont respond by attacking me for voiceing my doughts and useing a over worded reponce if cyans memory suits him are 1st game had a replacement and they had shorted every one made every one think he was town used big post and turnd out to be scum the whole time not saying you are but that thought has cross my mind. btw dose not the sight rules say you cant replace in with out playing your 1st game here 1st just wondering . im all about the rules when playing games/

[cyrus62]

Spoiler:

Honestly I'll try to tone it down on the WOT now; that first post was not supposed to be that long but when I started I couldn't stop and can be a wordy person, RIP.

In regards to your case, your arguments on Temporal seem really convincing, and it does make me doubt the TvT thing I mentioned earlier somewhat (although to say I'm sure here would be wrong). I'd like to hear Temporal give counterpoint or whatnot before deciding if the lynch should go through.

I don't think the lynch should go through until we get a phone replacement and they start saying stuff unless I really don't like what Temp sells me, personally. Honestly, I think I'm going to unvote just to make sure nobody pulls any shenanigans, but the intent is absolutely there and unless Temp has a really strong defense he should probably just claim now and we can move forward from there. (Though he should be defending himself anyway.)

UNVOTE:

I somewhat disagree with your read on Cyrus, mainly because he tends to play about as messily as he is doing here and his behavior doesn't really align with traditional Mafia meta (please look at the town game he posted for an idea of how he works).

I'm admittedly open to this; I'm slightly skeptical of looking at meta because I don't have the experience doing it to know that I"m looking at it properly. but I did skim the game and at least on surface-level it's looking rather similar, though given that cyrus himself posted I would expect cyrus-scum to try and replicate his play there; the question is how capable he is of doing it.

if you npte cyan him self said i was pinging him becuse i was being diffent then that game sp how would i be doing the same thing if i was makeing him wonder with my game play here i am trying to improve and look closer. this game should be down to 2 days and iits not becuse of phone and connor which is why i suggested the lynch becuse we were at a stand still . yes it helps us find scum however it also makes the game less fun. like i said i used to playing rl mafia in rl you wouldnt get a stand still till every one was found so yes it makes the game dull . i like games to be hard and if the game stays like this it isnt helping us we havent sorted phone and before you put temp to l1 you should have waited on phones replacement if you note i haven't cast but 1 vote simply because we havent been able to look at every one . i mean what if rob is scum and spangled is deflecting for him or some one else is.

[Sera Masumi]

let me start by saying i realu dislike big post overly worded as they are could have hidden meaning as i said i wasnt able to read no one fully yet and yes at a risk of takeing flank may i ask why your puting temp to l1 with out asking red to tell thire reads or build a case waiting for rob to respond and even hearing them out fully .

I've repeatedly noted to Temp that he can argue against my arguments and try to get the wagon off him, so I'm not sure in what sense I'm not "hearing him out fully" or shutting down other people's ability to give opinions and reads, since I'm explicitly not calling for a hammer right now, and actively disencentivizing anybody from hammering by noting that they're next if they do it. I didn't even

want to put him at L-1

, I explicitly refused to do so but then Temp decided to stonewall me because technically speaking he wasn't at L-1. If Temp is willing to accept that my vote is functionally on him without it being there, I will happily unvote.

Also
SHOT- "I'm going to unofficially put Temp at L-1 but remove the vote because I don't want any lolhammers" "YOU TECHNICALLY HAVEN'T PUT ME AT L-1"
CHASER- "Okay, if you're going to only accept being at L-1 if I put you there, because that's where I feel you should be, I'll put my vote there." "It sure is suspicious that you put Temp at L-1!"

Is everyone seeing this?

all i have seen from temp this game was he scum read some one got yelled at by the person thenevery one said it was tvt

Um, including... you?

Cyan, Adorable, cyrus, FL, connor, can you give us your perspective on this Robb vs. Temporal battle?

i agree with you sounds like tvt but i disagree with the sifting votes 3 times in a day .

and no one looked closer at rob . or red for saying phone is town cuse i playd with him .

Wait, since when did you suspect Robb? This is new. Also I don't get that second sentence, can you rephrase it?

i need these people to be looked at closer before i even think of voteing my town reads and now you put your self in a spot saying temp and me or spangled or me so dose that mean that if temp comes back town your still assume me but now suspect spanglled and then hang oonne of us.

Who is stopping you from... looking at them closer right now? Nothing about Temp being at L-1 is stopping you from continuing to explore your reads independently of Temp. If Temp flips town I will re-evaluate my reads, as is appropriate when a suspect flips town. That said, I will continue to think you are suspicious and likely to be scum, because my arguments against you are in no way wholly reliant on Temp flipping red. I'm liking Spangled a lot more after my proper reread so I'm not sure I really want him lynched at all at this point, at least any time soon.

I'm about to head to the airport after my initial flight got cancelled so I can't do it now, but later (at least when I get off the Red Eye, if not sooner while I'm waiting for the flight) I will give you a regular numbered list of the reasons I find Temp suspicious for your perusal in as plain language as possible.

[Sera Masumi]

if you npte cyan him self said i was pinging him becuse i was being diffent then that game sp how would i be doing the same thing if i was makeing him wonder with my game play here i am trying to improve and look closer.

"trying to do something" is not the same as "completely being able to do it" though.

But as much as I don't like the one before it, the rest of this post more or less does feel like it's coming from a sincere place. Hm. I'll have to think about this.

[Sera Masumi]

And I'm trying to cut it down a bit, but I can get a bit wally because I'm a verbose person, and this language is just how I write. I'm sorry, I'll try my best to be as clear as possible?

[cyrus62]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Robbnva

The selfvote was RvS btw if that wasnt clear, I earlier said I had a redcheck on myself and wanted to know how to vote remember?

But Robb's reaction to RvS is a big overreact

Oh sorry

VOTE: unvote

Phone is town.
Discuss.

what no case and hes town cuse red said so

[cyrus62]

if you npte cyan him self said i was pinging him becuse i was being diffent then that game sp how would i be doing the same thing if i was makeing him wonder with my game play here i am trying to improve and look closer.

"trying to do something" is not the same as "completely being able to do it" though.

But as much as I don't like the one before it, the rest of this post more or less does feel like it's coming from a sincere place. Hm. I'll have to think about this.

this is just my 2nd game how much better could i get.

[TemporalLich]

I'm wholly convinced Sera wants to have me at L-1 and not have me at L-1 at the same time. That's not how mafia works.

I am not claiming until L-1 with intent to hammer.

[cyrus62]

I'm wholly convinced Sera wants to have me at L-1 and not have me at L-1 at the same time. That's not how mafia works.

I am not claiming until L-1 with intent to hammer.

you realize if you say pr your get hammerd becuse the other wont say nothing so theres not a nk so either or they will still hammer you and say its towny and when you flip town like i think you will they will go for another myslych .

[TemporalLich]

I'm wholly convinced Sera wants to have me at L-1 and not have me at L-1 at the same time. That's not how mafia works.

I am not claiming until L-1 with intent to hammer.

you realize if you say pr your get hammerd becuse the other wont say nothing so theres not a nk so either or they will still hammer you and say its towny and when you flip town like i think you will they will go for another myslych .

If I'm in the tent there's nothing that's gonna save me, so claiming will at least buy me the rest of D1.

[cyrus62]

I'm wholly convinced Sera wants to have me at L-1 and not have me at L-1 at the same time. That's not how mafia works.

I am not claiming until L-1 with intent to hammer.

you realize if you say pr your get hammerd becuse the other wont say nothing so theres not a nk so either or they will still hammer you and say its towny and when you flip town like i think you will they will go for another myslych .

If I'm in the tent there's nothing that's gonna save me, so claiming will at least buy me the rest of D1.

i rather you not becuse if you are pr like your softing right then i would rather another wagon then make you say what you are becuse even if you dont die scum will kill you.

[Adorable]

So Temp is getting scum read for unvoting Robb and then voting him again? In past games I have seen town do this and I don't think scum are capable of this kind of play. I have already said I think Robb vs Temp is town vs town and the only player I could think of who could be Temp's scum buddy would be Cyrus if you guys think Temp really is scum.

About #483, why would Temp get hammered if he was to claim a pr? Pr are important and lynching a pr is actually what scum would do or who ever does hammer him could be seen as a counter claim if Temp claims the same pr as someone else.

I have a theory if Red is scum, Sera would be his scum buddy and I also find it interesting Red said Phone is town and it looked like to me Red would be scum if Phone does flip town since he was feeling confident Phone is town.

I still don't see anything towny on Phone's vote on Robb and I did not like the vote reason. Phone voted Robb for overreacting to an rvs which is a really bad reason to vote someone and it looked scummy.

[Spangled]

Just saw I got to L-1 and then instead of being put in the tent I'm taken off L-1. I'm not claiming yet.

I mean, I unvoted solely to make sure no lolhammer shenanigans went on and gave you time to respond to the in-thread arguments or claim. Choosing to do neither isn't really the best look...

To be fair, anyone who lolhammers is dead, straight away (at least in the newbie queue). One scum for one town (if Temporal is town) is a great trade.

linking things is honestly quite a bit of effort

A cool trick I learnt only yesterday. To link a post, you do

Code: Select all

[post]Post#[/post]

and it will autolink.

I'm wholly convinced Sera wants to have me at L-1 and not have me at L-1 at the same time. That's not how mafia works.

I am not claiming until L-1 with intent to hammer.

Spoiler:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4MqPOzoS4Y[/youtube]

But to be fair, you

are

at L-1 now. Please claim or similar, and make an actual case for your defense.

So Temp is getting scum read for unvoting Robb and then voting him again? In past games I have seen town do this and I don't think scum are capable of this kind of play. I have already said I think Robb vs Temp is town vs town and the only player I could think of who could be Temp's scum buddy would be Cyrus if you guys think Temp really is scum.

About #483, why would Temp get hammered if he was to claim a pr? Pr are important and lynching a pr is actually what scum would do or who ever does hammer him could be seen as a counter claim if Temp claims the same pr as someone else.

I have a theory if Red is scum, Sera would be his scum buddy and I also find it interesting Red said Phone is town and it looked like to me Red would be scum if Phone does flip town since he was feeling confident Phone is town.

I still don't see anything towny on Phone's vote on Robb and I did not like the vote reason. Phone voted Robb for overreacting to an rvs which is a really bad reason to vote someone and it looked scummy.

Adorable, have you read the rest of Sera's scum!Temporal case? It does not just consist of 'unvoting then voting Robb again'; it consists of Temporal flip-flopping all the way through this game, and being super opportunistic at many a point, never really displaying good reasoning or thinking like town should. Please read the case in its' entirety; I feel that it makes lots of good points about Temporal and his ISO.

[Spangled]

Or maybe for youtube links work like

[TemporalLich]

I've made a Sera countercase in 466.

I flop-flipped on Robb because I showed doubt then got attacked for it in a scummy way.

Red seemed like scum for refusing to effort and honestly not having a good ISO, I said if it was a PL I didn't have any better vote (and a PL is better than No Lynch on D1).

Sera is scum, you can read my countercase for why I SR sera and the vote on me is wolfy because Sera wants me to be on L-1 and not be on L-1 at the same time which is not natural at all.

I'm not claiming without intent.

[Sera Masumi]

I'm wholly convinced Sera wants to have me at L-1 and not have me at L-1 at the same time. That's not how mafia works.

Which is why I outright voted you and put you at L-1. The math checks out.

Are you going to actually respond to my explanation for why your responses are flawed at best or...?

Also @cyrus- You didn't care about it being L-1 when Phoenix voted Robb back in early Day 1, you were happy to contemplate running my slot into the ground based off a post that you didn't even think was scummy because it was dragging out the day, why is Temp being at L-1 such a big deal for you?

Also I expect you to actually dig into these Red and Robb and Phone suspicions now.

[Sera Masumi]

So Temp is getting scum read for unvoting Robb and then voting him again? In past games I have seen town do this and I don't think scum are capable of this kind of play. I have already said I think Robb vs Temp is town vs town and the only player I could think of who could be Temp's scum buddy would be Cyrus if you guys think Temp really is scum.

No, that is not a fair interpretation of why Temp is getting scumread and it is not what I said. Here are the reasons why Temp is being scumread- not all these are created equal, of course, but here they are in clear language, I'll tag them for space reasons:

Spoiler: Reasons Rob Is Scum

1. He flips his reads within hours with little explanation- saying that he is going to "go ahead and say that Robb is scum" in one post and then say "his posts lately have been more townie" in the next with one Robb post in-between. It isn't consistent and it isn't organic. The same is true for when he says that there is no way Robb flips town, and then saying within 40 minutes that the fight is TvT. He also suddenly starts saying phone is scum when people start suspecting them after indicating otherwise earlier.

2. When he unvotes Robb he doesn't actually make a case for Cyrus, or try fish out reads on other players by engaging with them or do... anything other than hop on somebody else another player says was suspicious earlier.

3. When Robb just.... challenges him on why he changed his mind and unvoted, instead of just... saying why he unvoted or engaging him at all, he just swings his vote his way for basically no reason, the only one he gives is that "Rob is finding me suspicious for doing something he finds scummy" (See #85). I see no way in which this logically follows from a townie mindset or why it gets rid of his townread on Robb. It makes no sense to me at all. If anybody can explain to me how this works from a town perspective, I'm happy to hear. Also his talk about how Robb is asking him to "role claim" by saying he has "claim[ed] scum" is forced as all hell.

4. His shade on Red for not believing in cases feels like an opportunistic way to throw shade on somebody scumreading him, and advocates for a PL on him on those grounds instead of voting on a scumread, which also feels sketchy and opportunistic.

5. His reads continually feel like they abide by consensus. He votes connor after someone else calls him scummy, he votes Redd after Redd starts to get pressure on him, and backs off when people start calling Redd town. He starts suspecting phone and Red after people start to find them suspicious, etc. etc.

6. He will continually do things for apparent little reason and often only justify them after-the-fact by sheeping other users- his reasons for backing off Robb are stolen from Spangled (as I recall), his reasons for thinking Phone are town earlier that day are stolen from Cyrus over 200 posts ago, only justify why phone is a bad vote in a conversation with me hundreds of posts later, etc. In general getting reasons for why he believes things is like pulling teeth.

7. His engagement with me post-suspicion has been shady as hell.

[Sera Masumi]

Also ftr I could easily see a Cyan/Temp team; I could also see an Adorable/Temp team or even a phone/Temp team, though that one is a lot more tentative. It is definitely not just Cyrus.

[TemporalLich]

yeah robb acting like I claimed scum is so forced it hurts

[cyrus62]

I'm wholly convinced Sera wants to have me at L-1 and not have me at L-1 at the same time. That's not how mafia works.

Which is why I outright voted you and put you at L-1. The math checks out.

Are you going to actually respond to my explanation for why your responses are flawed at best or...?

Also @cyrus- You didn't care about it being L-1 when Phoenix voted Robb back in early Day 1, you were happy to contemplate running my slot into the ground based off a post that you didn't even think was scummy because it was dragging out the day, why is Temp being at L-1 such a big deal for you?

Also I expect you to actually dig into these Red and Robb and Phone suspicions now.

i stated that rob was at l1 and he unvoted so i didnt have to do anything and i didnt vote him now did i

[cyrus62]

So Temp is getting scum read for unvoting Robb and then voting him again? In past games I have seen town do this and I don't think scum are capable of this kind of play. I have already said I think Robb vs Temp is town vs town and the only player I could think of who could be Temp's scum buddy would be Cyrus if you guys think Temp really is scum.

About #483, why would Temp get hammered if he was to claim a pr? Pr are important and lynching a pr is actually what scum would do or who ever does hammer him could be seen as a counter claim if Temp claims the same pr as someone else.

I have a theory if Red is scum, Sera would be his scum buddy and I also find it interesting Red said Phone is town and it looked like to me Red would be scum if Phone does flip town since he was feeling confident Phone is town.

I still don't see anything towny on Phone's vote on Robb and I did not like the vote reason. Phone voted Robb for overreacting to an rvs which is a really bad reason to vote someone and it looked scummy.

any one can say i am pr and then be lieing in so i can see them being hammerd as day 1 you cant prove your pr either way

[TemporalLich]

The fact there's no resistance on my wagon means I might be done for.

[Spangled]

So Temp is getting scum read for unvoting Robb and then voting him again? In past games I have seen town do this and I don't think scum are capable of this kind of play. I have already said I think Robb vs Temp is town vs town and the only player I could think of who could be Temp's scum buddy would be Cyrus if you guys think Temp really is scum.

About #483, why would Temp get hammered if he was to claim a pr? Pr are important and lynching a pr is actually what scum would do or who ever does hammer him could be seen as a counter claim if Temp claims the same pr as someone else.

I have a theory if Red is scum, Sera would be his scum buddy and I also find it interesting Red said Phone is town and it looked like to me Red would be scum if Phone does flip town since he was feeling confident Phone is town.

I still don't see anything towny on Phone's vote on Robb and I did not like the vote reason. Phone voted Robb for overreacting to an rvs which is a really bad reason to vote someone and it looked scummy.

any one can say i am pr and then be lieing in so i can see them being hammerd as day 1 you cant prove your pr either way

Yes, but it gives us a further reason to lynch them - or to not.
A claim is just more info, which always helps town.

[Spangled]

The fact there's no resistance on my wagon means I might be done for.

So claim.

[cyrus62]

I'm wholly convinced Sera wants to have me at L-1 and not have me at L-1 at the same time. That's not how mafia works.

Which is why I outright voted you and put you at L-1. The math checks out.

Are you going to actually respond to my explanation for why your responses are flawed at best or...?

Also @cyrus- You didn't care about it being L-1 when Phoenix voted Robb back in early Day 1, you were happy to contemplate running my slot into the ground based off a post that you didn't even think was scummy because it was dragging out the day, why is Temp being at L-1 such a big deal for you?

Also I expect you to actually dig into these Red and Robb and Phone suspicions now.

if you think my defence in temp is a ai then by all means lynch them im willing to bet my life they are town but are you? are you so sure they flip scum to the point your be d2 lynch? the only way you would keep up is if theres a cc in which case your role fishing on d1 which isnt towny becuse if they out them self we our giveing up are pr before they can help. i say stop at the soft at soft and dont push . pushing for a pr so early dose not help town.