unwnd - popsofctown PT

[FakeGod]

Starry Night

unwnd - popsofctown

[unwnd]

I'll dump my readslist and thoughts on players/pairings soon

[popsofctown]

You should be the adult between the two of us on figuring out Shiro. Cephrir is right that it's not really fair to let her get away with goofing off instead of making herself readable but I do know she's done stuff like this as town.

I'd really like to be able to first lynch a pair where both halves seem really scummy, getting to read a flip and seeing the one you had as favorite to red flip then seeing the other half red flip instead seems like it'd be hella gratifying (I haven't played this setup before dunno if that's been mentioned in thread)

[unwnd]

About to go for a run but I'll leave a footnote about Shiro/FB then come back with everything else:

I thought Shiro's initial response to FB was pretty townie, and I was basing my decision to try and pair with her on this alone. I felt FB trying to lock her into a state of suicide and her saying she didn't like this fact was a townie progression, but what really trips me up about it is that she eventually rescinded her own thoughts and reclutantly accepted FB. I don't know why you would accept FB (or anyone) if you weren't townreading the slot, because I was under the impression it's best to well, match with players you townread. There are little things I don't like about her outisde of that which is her self-conscious yet joking nature, such as two individual responses to people who called her out as possibly being scum.

[popsofctown]

I've only played with Shiro-town. Shiro-town didn't really care about pressure. But she produced a bit more reads and content that game.

I have this big paranoia that Firebringer rolled scum this game and came to the thread with the schtick of "I'm gonna play this game with a no-leaving-partners-rule" because he cares more about winning than he did whenever he played that game he suicided but has created a meta where if he hasn't committed suicide before LyLo people should be suspicious of him. It is a little hard to buy that he really wants to play in LyLo since he's not an archetypal the-game-of-mafia-is-beautiful enthusiast or anything. I'm hesitant to put tinfoil hat angles in the main thread though just cause when they're wrong they're really wrong I guess.
Shiro-FB seems to have some equity on either side.
There's this nonzero part of me that wants to see more cute pink posts and wants Shiro to survive to intermission for that reason though, can't help it. Lack of charisma is the ultimate scumtell etc

[unwnd]

I mean, this is now two instances were people come back with some kind of righteous fury after being suspected. Bitmap did close to the same thing and now Firebringer is calling the pushes on him to be scum-driven. I think if Firebringer/Shiro is town here I'd probably consider Deas/Ceph but right now I'm operating that Shiro's decision to accept FB and other tidbits is too strange to write off as coincidence.

[unwnd]

Gonna take a nap then just write a ton of stupid bullshit for u to deliberate, said I was gonna do that after my run but stayed up to type stupid bullshit into the thread instead

[popsofctown]

lol

[unwnd]

Alright individual tells:

Shiro - Talked about this slot a bit in conjunction of Firebringer. To reiterate my points I just don't know if I believe in her reasoning for pairing with FB at this juncture despite the claims made from the other end. I find her pop-ins to be worse for her because they feel like an elicited reaction. If her credibility is in her ability to be townread I dunno why she feels the need to defend herself by a few passerbys stating dislike for her slot. Null lean scum

Firebringer - Didn't like him initially but feeling indifferent about this fact now that everything has transpired. Think his Bitmap push at the least is good because I scumread Bitmap. Not much that I'm paying attention with this slot other than their pushes, and the way Shiro/FB paired together. Was FB's response to everyone suspecting them townie? I'm a type of player who leads on tone in the sense that I will base my impression of someone based on their tone and how it matches their actions. I just think for me personally Shiro looks worse based on the way she handled FB therefore I'm banking on Shiro being scum. Nullish town

Maria - Talked in thread about this read a bit. Think Maria's pushes lack initiative, like there is a certain process required that I'm not seeing. This isn't an individual tell rather more ubiquitous, and I think that her play suggests that she will be applying pressure more effectively but doesn't do anything with it? I think when town are trying to apply pressure they may exaggerate their stances and then eventually reveal what they got out of this exchange, but I'm not really close to understanding this from Maria. It's like with Dunn she seemed really pissed about..whatever, but nothing came out of it. There was another instance where she was hard on Ceph calling him scum but ???? where did that go lol. In terms of Maria themselves, I think that pressure and see what happens fits her mold, but right now I think she's just trying to play too close to what is effective as a townie without the results. That's why you see cookie-cutter exchanges or her coming to conclusions before anything actually happens. Lean scum

Ank - Was back and forth on this slot for a very long while. The one huge blurb she made defending herself like..still sets in the back of my head. The decisions she makes and the constant wavering really makes me tilt my head but I think just based on the fact I'm not really feeling Maria it's likely that she's just town trying to consider too many things at once. Her vote on me for example doesn't seem all opportunistic, especially when you consider the fact the IC wants us to survive. Lean town (FOR NOW)

Bitmap - Really dislike this slot. Bag of inconsistencies. Tried to confront them about these and he just had what I call self-tells. It's when you pressure someone and they self-tell about something so it's invalid, and I find when town are trying to self-tell they usually are doing it to reprimand someone for a bad read, but Bitmap's self-tells are only used to redirect. I don't understand how someone can go from raw aggression and saying my scumread is shit to saying they distrust their own townplay and saying themselves are shit. Like...if you're an unsure player you do not lead most of your arguments as black and white, because I've never seen him consider that perhaps he could be wrong? Just doesn't feel like he's thinking about what he's saying and what it means to him personally rather just entertaining the thread. Scum

Creature - God. Fuck this slot for now. My tell on Creature is that yeah, sure, when he's town he'll towntell but when he's scum he'll try to insinuate behavior that instills doubt. I remember clearly playing a game where Creature as scum was spreading a good amount of FUD inbetween his usual behavior and I've pretty much always scumread him for it with close to 60-80% accuracy. Creature isn't the type of player who is multi-faceted, he's one-dimensional which is why he's so easily townread as town. I guess where I stand with Creature is that I'll wait and see what he does, and my usual tell for calling him out isn't as uh, present in this game yet. He's had a few posts where I start thinking 'the fuck is he doin' but he's probably right about the fact scum latched on early to people. Null

Cephrir - Uhhhh..no clue. I don't have much to talk about slot and my attempts to understand them ended up with failure but!! I will say that Ali felt that perhaps Ceph would be playing much harder as scum so I guess that's something based on Ali fipping town? Not going down with that read. Null

Dunn - I basically treat Dunn in relation to what Maria does because I have run into so many games where they're either both town or both scum. Do I think they're both scum this game? Not really, I kinda feel this is the game where one of them is scum and the other is town. It's hard to get into dunn's head because he hardly leads on but so I basically have to read him on his votes. It's funny how Maria/Dunn tend to clash because I think their playstyles as town are similar. I think that I really wanna flip Bitmap and cut my losses with Dunn and go from there. Null-ish

Gaiden - Lol another slot I don't really like at all. Don't have detailed reasons for this but feel like he latched onto the easiest choice of pairing with the IC. He's not gonna let me get a read on him and I think he will especially do this if he's scumm. It's basically up to the IC at this rate. Scum-but-prob-not-getting-lynched

Oka - Talked about this slot as well. Oka seems to threadcamp a lot and plays proactive but he does in a way that is kinda like..follow the leader? Does that make sense? I'm not saying that he's parroting opinions I just feel like when the thread is jammin' he's there to add into the white noise. That's all he's really been is white noise, and I feel people are giving him passes because all he has to do is pretend to be interested but none of the progressions he's made make any fucking sense. If you wanna know more I can give you more about this slot but ya definitely want this gone too and seems the most feasible. Scum

Gamma - Ali thought this slot was scum and I've been weirded out on the whole 'nothing' they post but unless all the scum members have the same tactic of feeling really offended and pissed off I'm probably just being shortsighted. Why Gamma accepted Oka kinda blows and they won't explain it to me but yeah leaning more Oka here in terms of the pairing so I guess..townie by association of not being Oka? Lol

DeasVeil - Absolute no clue again. Ceph/Deas are definitely gonna be a pair I'm gonna have an annoying time to figure out. Null

[unwnd]

tl;dr

Kagami
Pops
--
Ank
Firebringer
--
Gamma
Creature
Ceph
DeasVeil
--
Gaiden
Shiro
Maria
Bitmap
Oka

Obviously I'm wrong somewhere but I'm not the type of player who is scared of being wrong.

[unwnd]

Oh I forgot Rob. I dunno he's fine I guess. I think Rob/Creature could be dandy if they're both town. /shrug

[unwnd]

Percentage of each pair on being TvT

DeasVail - Cephrir 50%
Kagami - SXTLHGaiden 50%
Ankamius - MariaR 40%
Firebringer - Shiro 50%
OkaPoka - Gamma Emerald 30%
Dunnstral - Bitmap 30%
unwnd - popsofctown 80%
Golden Robster - Creature 60%

[unwnd]

Maybe percentages are convoluted and stupid but I digress. Lmk if it makes sense or your thoughts

[popsofctown]

Yeah, I generally avoid percentages because it's hard to accurately generate a percentage based on how something "feels" and for it to be tethered to reality. For example... unless you know something I don't about where the scum PT is, the odds of the unwnd-pops pairing having scum is 80% -mathematically-, so if you townread me at all (which you said you do) it should be higher. Then like, whether it should feel like 85% or 95% seems like a convoluted thing.

I'd be at like:

unwnd
Ank
Creatureslot
---------
Firebringer
Dunnstral
DeasVail
---------
Null line
-------
MariaR
GR
Gamma Emerald
-------
Shiro
-------
OkaPoka
--------
Gaiden

Lots of gaps on the bottom now that I think about it.

[unwnd]

Damn you really don't like Gaiden either

Sick

[popsofctown]

I forgot Bitty
His stock's fallen to null.
I kinda don't want to lynch there it might be confirmation bias but I got a really good feel off of the slot. I think the point about deprecating own townplay is pretty average but I have to average that out against my gut read.

[unwnd]

If you could elaborate on those reads even if they're not paragraphs like mine that'd be cool. I just think with Bit though him deprecating like that didn't rly match but for some reason he's on Ceph/Deas right now which is ???

[popsofctown]

*is pretty valid too much the word average

[popsofctown]

Ank is definitely trying to do so stuff. I don't think she's doing nearly as much as she thinks she's doing. But trying to do stuff means an awful lot. The whole thing about pairing with MariaR because they both could be paranoia lynches is wifomy as fudge but I buy that it was actually popping to her mind so I count that as NAI. She just hasn't scumtold and keeps trying to do stuff

idk if you care why I townread you. I still think it is bad in this setup to propose early but it's NAI especially since I'm the kinda player who would say no and you could have gotten a yes. Now that I type that out maybe even town indicative. I townleaned a lot of your later posting you seemed to be willing to bring up topics that weren't in the 24/7 news cycle which is really different from a player that seems to mostly repeat the 24/7 news cycle of what topics are going on in thread, and just shut up a little more when a partner is up for discussion. I'm also pretty easily pocketed. I think deservedly so, actually? Usually being able to read me correctly is a towntell because I do a lot of crap that is considered scummy according to traditional values and I just do it anyway and only the people who read past that to my tone can tell I'm town. It's like a dogwhistle thing. Scum usually just view me as a better mislynch than pocketing ally because they see those traditional scummy things every game and can't hear the dogwhistle saying they'll actually have to NK me (or fool me without pocketing that happens to me plenty).

Firebringer is doing stuff and I think it seems like he's trying to form reads. I actually like that he attacked my slot and then asked a followup. Reading my own words I wrote the paragraph above though maybe I should be more concerned that he misread my slot and it could be even worse. Picking on the posters... actually I don't have a name for this group but most of them have animal avatars lol... picking on the animal posters would be easier. Ankamius doesn't pick on the animal posters extra she picks on everyone. Some percentage of Firebringer being high is cause Shiro is really scummy and that's his dance partner. But I forgot when I wrote the list those are the 2 that would dance together as scum.

Deasvail kinda has to be town cause of Cephrir being scum. Cephrir was actually the first one to insist they pair together based on history and not based on reads and he didn't even try to accomplish anything all game before making that happen. Also all of Cephrir's reads seem so bad I think they're not real reads. Also Cephrir should be able to read me right now. It's unclear how mislynchable when people are asking about my alignment he's saying "unclear" and I don't think that's because the 131st post I give him is what's going to do it, I think the 3rd vote on my wagon is what's gonna do it.

[popsofctown]

Dunnstral I don't remember all that much but mostly seemed candid. MariaR has the fewest total posts but has a bulky mafia reputation so I put her slightly down. It's maybe wrong to BoP people that they should deliver you entire lynches but I haven't gotten any thoughts from her that are like "oh that's insightful". GR's replace-in post was very IIoA but it's a lot less scum indicative once he explains that he took notes during the game as if they were to read himself, then pasted them into the thread, that has a different implication from composing the post purely to benefit the readers (because the idea of the IIoA tell is you fulfilling an obligation with counterfeit money, this would be like donating or overpaying extra money really). The slot is originally Oversoul who didn't do much and had 9 scumreads? So even with the catchup thing dampened still a wtf slot (he's kind of a wtf poster too so it's a feng shui fit so far I guess)

GE is like too emotional to be readable to me in a way, I kinda to a large extent would expect Ali to be an expert on emotion driven mafia and want to deadsheep Ali's read. I want GE lynched to an even greater extent than I think he's scum because I think it will be hard to read him any better based on future posts but could read other players better based on future posts. Since Gamma is dating Oka it ends up working really nicely where I don't have to feel guilty about that in a normal game it's yucky to feel like a player is only a little scummy but also a class of player you'll never hard scumread and lynch them for that reason.

[popsofctown]

Shiro is the Siren leading Firebringer to hell. She was like this somewhat in SC mafia but I remember her having reads. I think you really make a great point about their being a mismatch between the way she's playing the game and the way she claims she's best at adding value to the town. It's kinda like the opposite of Ankamius where Ankamius has said she doesn't think she'll survive to endgame and her play has fit with that claim cause she's doing stuff right away and she's trying to develop a theory that would solve the game in its entirety. It seems doubtful that Shiro actually believes she will townspew later with the way she's playing.
Oka's really bad I've been talking about it in thread. If he's skimming the game he should still find interesting things to talk about. And wow, recurring theme, people saying something is their role and not doing it: if he needs the PT to be effective in this game, why was he one of the latest proposers? In the game state before lupin replaced in why wasn't flirting with Gamma Emerald his MO, purportedly that's the only player in the whole game he could solve with. I think he was avoiding focusing on one woman to avoid pairing with a teammate if it's mixed gender scum (though I guess that'd suggest it's probably 1 male scum 2 girlscum but I otherwise think it's 2-3 malescum)

[popsofctown]

Gaiden immediately paired with the IC then posted noise instead of content as an entire iso. Gaiden and Kagami being friends detracts from how scummy pairing with the IC immediately is, sure, but it only amplifies how he should care about helping his friend win the game if they're friends

[unwnd]

I wasn't really doubting my townread on you I just like having a place to solve that isn't the thread. I sometimes do notes and others times I say shit off the top of my head and try to form it into coherent sentences (or paragraphs).

I think the biggest thing for me right now is determining gamestate, cause right now I feel like (and I probably mentioned this in-thread) that scum latched on early to people which is why Ali got the boot before we could even make a decision to somehow play the pre-dance to our advantage. Hope Oka/Gamma just get clapped and we can move on from there. I'm down to tag-team some of the harder lynches if scum doesn't try to get rid of us but yeh

[popsofctown]

I think if Oka lynch happens looking at the flips and who would/wouldn't support it will provide a good direction. If it ends up being Firebringer lynch instead I think it'd tell us something too, but probably less. If there is a scum in the pairing we get a "yes this is good" "no this is bad" feedback which is good, unless somehow they both flipped red, but if that happened I would be so elated I wouldn't care about the lack of feedback

[popsofctown]

Ank voting DeasVail between Cephrir-Deas is really weird

I care more about seeing someone doing stuff than being right all the time but if a certain amount of wrongness builds up I have to start thinking it's someone who has an answer key and doesn't know if "tents" or "eleven" is a better wrong answer because they can't read the questions without getting bored.

Maybe none of the votes are supposed to be real scumreads? But then that is just shirking accountability and doesn't fit the suicidal gamesolver picture she painted herself.

Have you played with ank before?