Starry Night [Game Over]

[Bitmap]

So what's the tl;dr on maria scum here?

Dunn's ISO

That's not a tl;dr.

I had read Dunn's ISO before, and don't recall anything super interesting, hence the request for a summary through the eyes of everyone's favorite raster format.

What did you ask me?

I want you to explain your scumread without using buzz words because half of the stuff your accusing me is stuff that isn't happening and is just baseless assumptions. I want you to explain why Bit is town because they're very clearly scum in my eyes. Do that and I'll answer your questions.
pedit: You'd be surprised. Also I've stated meta doesn't work on me in many games not just this one, because it doesn't. If my play was so easy to detect with Meta I wouldn't have such a highscum winrate.

My scumread on you is as follows:

- You are playing a very neutral game, other people see this as towny but it's not, for you, it's something you can easily do as scum
- You repeatedly ask the same question instead of taking the initiative when I'm explaining why I think bitmap is town multiple times in thread
- Process of elimination - other people look towny and you don't
- You avoid answering questions and then say "why would I do that as scum" - that's not how it works. I don't know why you'd do it as scum, but it doesn't make you town. Why would you do it as town?
- As soon as I voted you you did a 180 where even though you refused to give reads on me when I asked multiple times, all of a sudden I 'could be scum, if bitmap is town'

-Pushing easy lynches
-Setting up Dunn for getting auto-lynched whether or not he picked me or Alisae

There's some more but I'm going to play video games. So I'll post sometime in a few hours.

[MariaR]

Just because someone is easy to lynch/considered lynch bait doesn’t mean they can’t be scum. It means legit nothing.

[MariaR]

The most easy lynch in the game just flipped scum. If pushing easy lynches is scummy you should scumread half the playerlist

[Bitmap]

Second point still stands.

[MariaR]

Scum me doesn't need to set up Dunn for an auto lynch when he's so easy to pocket. Plus I admitted to that statement when I didn't need to if I'm scum. The whole reason your 'second point' exists is because of me. I thought Dunn was scummy then he paired with you and became towny. What's so scummy about that.

[Bitmap]

But you literally told him:

-You pair with bitmap, I'm going to lynch you cause of bitmap.
-You pair with Alisae, I'm going to scumread you.

You literally were setting him up for an autolynch.

[Kagami]

So what's the tl;dr on maria scum here?

Dunn's ISO

That's not a tl;dr.

I had read Dunn's ISO before, and don't recall anything super interesting, hence the request for a summary through the eyes of everyone's favorite raster format.

What did you ask me?

I want you to explain your scumread without using buzz words because half of the stuff your accusing me is stuff that isn't happening and is just baseless assumptions. I want you to explain why Bit is town because they're very clearly scum in my eyes. Do that and I'll answer your questions.
pedit: You'd be surprised. Also I've stated meta doesn't work on me in many games not just this one, because it doesn't. If my play was so easy to detect with Meta I wouldn't have such a highscum winrate.

My scumread on you is as follows:

- You are playing a very neutral game, other people see this as towny but it's not, for you, it's something you can easily do as scum
- You repeatedly ask the same question instead of taking the initiative when I'm explaining why I think bitmap is town multiple times in thread
- Process of elimination - other people look towny and you don't
- You avoid answering questions and then say "why would I do that as scum" - that's not how it works. I don't know why you'd do it as scum, but it doesn't make you town. Why would you do it as town?
- As soon as I voted you you did a 180 where even though you refused to give reads on me when I asked multiple times, all of a sudden I 'could be scum, if bitmap is town'

-Pushing easy lynches
-Setting up Dunn for getting auto-lynched whether or not he picked me or Alisae

There's some more but I'm going to play video games. So I'll post sometime in a few hours.

Dunn's townread on you is shallow and boring, so I don't take issue with Maria not liking it, especially since Dunn was being explicitly cagey about it. Now if Dunn has a strong meta-read that he would bet his life on (which is the first bullet there), I would take that into consideration.

That said, there are some things I see in maria's iso that are worthy of suspicion.

Ank, can you flesh out the GR read for me?

[Bitmap]

@Mariar: I don't know if his scum read on you was from his annoyance of you or an actual scum read since I never played with either of you before.

[Ankamius]

Ank, can you flesh out the GR read for me?

independently, I thought that the way GR was handling the pressure on her was a really townish tone, very different from what I've seen from her in ircher's large normal

I admit I can be wrong on that mainly because from what I can tell (krazy's meta on her), she tryhards a lot more as scum than town and that technically could be in play this game

although I also don't really feel like she's being especially conscious of where her reads are at so idk

[MariaR]

But you literally told him:

-You pair with bitmap, I'm going to lynch you cause of bitmap.
-You pair with Alisae, I'm going to scumread you.

You literally were setting him up for an autolynch.

Yes. Because I was scumreading you and he paired with you
And I was scumreading Dunn before he paired up with you. It's called changing stances.

[Ankamius]

one thing I will note is that I locktowned her in that game despite her being scum, although that's not entirely relevant either since I was primarily using VCA and NKA to find scum and I was assuming a larger team than actually existed

[MariaR]

@Mariar: I don't know if his scum read on you was from his annoyance of you or an actual scum read since I never played with either of you before.

Dunn doesn't scumread me because he can't read me right. Ever since I tricked him hard as scum before his rep of reading me went down so he doesn't like to commit a townread on me anymore.

[Kagami]

Has maria supported your read or otherwise spoken to you about GR-creature pair?

[Kagami]

(in the pt, that is)

[Ankamius]

nah, we haven't spoken a whole lot about specific reads, mostly about pairing priorities, which we've been mostly synced on all game

only one we've really talked about was unwnd

[Ankamius]

pairing priorities as in which pairings we want to lynch in what order

[unwnd]

Deas vote onto Bitmap reads opportunistic but it almost reads in a way that is positive because I run under the assumption Deas wouldn't make himself look so obvious there.

[unwnd]

Alright so I'm probably gonna do a dive into pairings and pre-dance

I think pops mentioned it about Creature but there's other instances that concern me. There's not really a way of knowing if there's one last gentscum and oneladyscum right? Like, is it possible there was only one gentscum and two ladyscum? I understand this is WIFOM but running under the assumption of other will change how I view the pre-dance and how things went down. I've been talking about it a little bit in-thread and PT but Ali being gone the way they were makes me feel like scum got the jump early on some ladies therefore I feel like it's 2gent/1lady here.

Nothing that confirms it, just if people wanna bother with semantics they may join me as I go look through some shit

[Dunnstral]

what does 2790 even mean

I'm saying I don't understand how Dunn's 2774 comes from your 2767

Read the posts in between?

[unwnd]

This setup is made a bit more strongly than I thought and I don't think I can make a confirmed path to victory without there being a lack of assurance. I was looking into how many ladies are left and it's pretty much confirmed that we will run out of ladies to hang before gents so I was thinking 'let's just lynch down the list under no ladies are left' but this probably isn't the best idea.

[Ankamius]

big reason I judge pairings, unwnd

[Ankamius]

ftr I don't really think there's very good odds of one half having two scum in it just by play, I think a lot of these pairings ended up happening for reasons that are mostly independent of alignment

Like really, Ceph + Deas is very unlikely to be alignment indicative for either
FB + Shiro is an obvious pairing
Kagami + Gaiden is an obvious pairing

Then you have MariaR and me, which is probably something that we would both do in TvT, TvS, and SvT in whichever scenario, probably something you'd have to really dig at to narrow it down just from that angle alone

Then you have Oka + Gamma, which Oka probably went for to ensure he'd have a somewhat reasonable chance of getting through predance without having to settle

The other three is basically forced in some way

[Ankamius]

Btw scum!me most likely pairs with MariaR because I think she'd be one of the biggest threats to my team in this plist and it would help me control the game if I could take her out when I feel like it would help my team win

Or even better, use her hunting in the PT to pocket the rest of the game and powerwolf the game where I want it to be

I could see MariaR picking me as a partner for a similar reason since I tend to be a major wildcard as town

[unwnd]

The other three is basically forced in some way

Is that where you think scum lies? I sorta see the possibility of an obvious pairing having one red in there

[Ankamius]

I think Dunn just derped and took a scum partner over two significantly more town ones