Mini 2084: Pokemon Ruby Mafia - Game Over

[Pine]

Making the Neighborizers odd/even does not solve the balance problem. You still have two effective Masonizers balanced only by a 2-shot rolecop. I know, we haven’t see the other scum flip, but I don’t think a setup with two robust scum PRs passes review.

There is also a flavor component. Having a Magma Admin and two Goons makes sense, two named roles and one goon does not

EP, claim your flavor in your next post

[Detective Pikachu]

Mafia disloyal Neighborizer, final answer. It’s the ONLY way this is balanced

or: mafia neighborizor, and he's lying about having a mod
or: town neighborizor, and he's gambiting on gamma being town (think this is less likely tho)

[Detective Pikachu]

A mafia roleblocker could easily balance this however.

or with a gated asceticizer this is sort of in the ballpark of Jazz?

[Pine]

VOTE: EP

Scum Neighborizer

I know, I just saw the flaw in my logic w/r/t two scum PRs, but it’s the only plausible solution to my eyes, barring them both being scum together. Maybe it’s Leader Maxie, Admin whatshername, and a Goon

[Detective Pikachu]

I mean, Jazz had 2 masons and a full loyal neighborizor iirc, and somehow that shit passed review

I don't think BG + odd/even loyal neighborizor is inherently outside the range of balance, but hmm

[Pine]

Scum would need a lot of power to balance that, and there’s been no evidence that reviewers are inclined in that direction lately.

[Detective Pikachu]

Can anyone explain the magma/aqua dynamic given I never played Ruby

Is team magma only in ruby and team aqua only in sapphire or are both in both?

the implication for this mafia game is that all of the group scum is with team magma?

Gamma, can you explain on why you believed that the scum were fully flavor-outed by the point that he made that post in the PT? I kinda wasn't paying attention to micc's flavor that much I guess and didn't realize he had implied the groupscum's mafia flavor tbh

[Detective Pikachu]

well from the perspective of play, if we were suspicious of EP, wouldn't it still be superior to leave him for tomorrow given that this is an even night? I mean that's not always the case, sometimes you want to lynch an investigative before lylo, but I am inclined to agree that BP + odd-loyal is probably(?) not enough stuff for the town in a mini theme

then again this is Micc and if he's going of newbie queue there's probably not so much power

idk maybe I need to see what other setups he's run

[Pine]

Aqua is good in Ruby and vice versa. They’re both bad and competing in Emerald

There’s no evidence that Aqua is involved afaik

[Pine]

Leaving him accomplishes nothing, I think? He recruits someone N4, and we still don’t know if he’s loyal or not

More insidious, if we let him go, mislynch me, he claims to have failed to recruit someone N4. That’s an alleged guilty in LYLO. Way easy to get a quick scum win

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah I understand better, so Aqua were the bad guys in sapphire?

I guess the design discussion for Aqua is relevant here

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=73829

[Detective Pikachu]

like I want to say odd-loyal + even-loyal + bg is more powerful than 3x mason but not by *a lot*

it's possible and I would just expect a second scum PR, like a scum JK or something maybe? maybe even a gated x-shot scum roleblocker of some kind

BG is... ? in power vs a vanilla cop joat

[Detective Pikachu]

I do want to say that one odd-loyal and a BG is just, not enough town power

there would have to be more town power somewhere

[Creature]

If I go mod spec, I'd say it's one admin with two-shot rolecop and two grunts for scum.

[Detective Pikachu]

and you think this passes with one odd loyal, one even loyal, one bg vs rolecop + 2 goons?

[Creature]

Two loyal neighborizers aren't really overpowered.

Assuming scum manages to not shoot any of them N1 and N2, most likely there will be about two more town clears and that's it. Or one of them could fail at scum and not be sure if it's a guilty.

By N3 scum should have atleast one of the neighborizers pinned, otherwise yeah they deserve to lose here.

[Pine]

If I go mod spec, I'd say it's one admin with two-shot rolecop and two grunts for scum.

That was my thought too. I’d say odd loyal Neighborizer + unrestricted BG vs 2-shot RC is balanced

Honestly the fake Mason gambit is kind of the simplest solution here

[Creature]

If EP is scum, do you think he would've pulled that claim by himself?

If not, who most likely would've?

[Pine]

I mean why would they wait to claim if this were real? GEmerald’s skepticism of EP post-recruitment and the lack of an earlier claim doesn’t smell right

[Detective Pikachu]

I mean for EP to be scum I think we need another TPR claim, barring that I don't see why we would lynch him here

I don't think 1 odd loyal + 1 bg vs rolecop pass review tbh? although, I mean, that would be a lot closer to a newbie queue game and micc does run a lot of them

[Creature]

It's hard to talk about setup balances in game when I've already seen games with a balance way worse than two alternating semi-cops + one BG.

[Creature]

I'll probably wait they explain why they acted like that.

[Detective Pikachu]

Umm.

Holding off on a RP vote because he's at L-1 already. Need to give possible investigatives a chance to check in at bare minimum.

He’s confirmed Town

99.9% confirmed town*

Nah there's like no chance DP is scum here imo

So this is what Gamma implies was a crumb I guess? But if he's setup speccing me as town based on being hooded by EP then shouldn't he be townreading EP here?

Because I'd like to finish Ep before starting anyone new

I'm still doing my Ep read through but I do have a question for Menalque: my predecessor Cinnamon used the term "right now" a lot. Now you claim a lot of experience with Cinnamon, so I want you to take a page out of the scumhunting book of a player called Ellibereth: which alignment does Cinnamon use it more as?

And btw that's something you should take seriously because reading through EP gives me a chance to look over some of your stuff and I'm kinda coming to a scumread on you

About to sign off for the night but before I do I want to let you know I'm done reading through EP and he is solidly town
I know some people asked for explanation so I'll talk about my meta on him and if more is requested I'll post a more comprehensive analysis of him in this game
I reviewed him in two games (Newbie 1936 and the Pastries micro Normal) and I determined he has rather non-convoluted posts which show nuanced and insightful thinking as town

Gamma can you expand on your reasoning for this series of posts, given this is all post-hooding?

[Pine]

If EP is scum, do you think he would've pulled that claim by himself?

If not, who most likely would've?

It’s not a hard fakeclaim. We’d already seen a Loyal Neighborizer this game

PE: Loyal Neighborizers aren’t semi-cops, they’re closer to Masonizers. They get a straight into or guilty, then a hood with their target. The loyal modifier is nuts

The role is way more powerful than you give it credit for. I could see the original setup being one LN and a BG, and Micc getting a suggestion to hobble it with odd-night.

Having two just makes the power more durable. With two, scum have two separate powerful investigatives to pin down. At the very least, the Rolecop wouldn’t have been limited

[Detective Pikachu]

RP seems genuine.

I'm fine with Creature or Chemist today.

UNVOTE:

Gamma was pretty hard town by the end of D2. Mena, I think you're town but you're stuck tunneling on Gamma.

This is a very inactive game. Could mean scum are happy with where it's headed and we need to seriously rethink everything

Agreed. Assuming town!Gamma, that would also explain why yesterday hit a bit of a lull once both wagons built up. Scum knew it was tvt and just coasted. This aligns with RP's observation that Creature coasted in the second half of D2.

Because he bleeds Town

Can you stop just asserting this and actually explain it

Creature has done fuck all this game

How is that bleeding town

Agreed. I don't see town!creature here. I'd like someone to lay it all out.

@elements I could do that I think

But I still think I’d like gamma first maybe? I’m not sure

Feel like gamma!town would be an easy mislynch in the case of creature!town, and I don’t wanna have to make that decision in lylo

I’d rather go gamma today I think as I think there’s more information there

What information do we get from a Gamma lynch that we don't get from a Creature lynch?

One of the main selling points of lynching Gamma for me was to get info on your alignment. Your crusade convinced me you're town. Gamma's resolve in the Mena v Gamma and ofrhz v Gamma convinced me he's town.

Yeah I mean this kinda works for crumbing if he died n3