A thirteen-player pre-designed setup courtesy of Flavor Leaf

[implosion]

!!

[Flavor Leaf]

Awesome!

When I get home tonight, I’ll post one of my 11p setups.

(I kind of have a bunch of things that I’ve semi created over the past 3 and a half years of face to face mafia, and I’ve just modified a lot of them.)

[Flavor Leaf]

Novice Weak Friendly Neighbor Neighborizer
Neighbor
6x VT

Mafia PT Cop
Mafia Goon
Mafia Traitor Neighbor

One of the VT’s could be a Complex Fruit Vendor.

8v2.5

[implosion]

as a matter of course, to make sure you have the formalization right - novice weak friendly neighbor neighborizer can, after n1, *either* neighboring or friendly neighborize someone? If it's supposed to do both (i.e. be a novice masonizer) it would be a novice weak combined friendly neighbor neighborizer (and notably, if it targeted scum, that scum would *still* be added to the neighborhood and be told that the person is town even as they die).

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay, so I need

Combined

there as well.

But yes, expected as much if the weak dies with scum going to the neighborhood.

[northsidegal]

So I know that schadd thinks that 8:3 is balanced by stacking power in a few roles but this is too much for me (and I suspect for schadd as well). I think essentially only one power role is unacceptable for town.

[schadd_]

ahhhgh traitor

i think this isn't strong enough for town yeah. gosh i'm thinking through all of what it does. weak + self-confirming is a rough combination. to begin with, high concentrations of scum make weak die more often and that's a REALLY tough scenario when it happens early - if they target scum night 1 ... which they might try to do ? you're definitely not trying to invest likely townies since that takes away the invest value ... then they are in 3:5 mylo with a single potential guilty that may have (or may not have !!!! ) been crumbed at.

"oh," well you might say, "its mylo ASSUMING that town mislynches d1!!" the other thing is that i think scum on this site does really well in high concentrations like this, people just aren't used to factoring in how much control they have over the thread and the powerwolfing happens more naturally. sort of the same deal with traitor - for better or for worse we don't use them a lot and i feel like that would make the landscape for traitor crumbing sort of stuff a lot easier. so to begin with i think this is hard and i think masonizer is strongish but falls flat on the ground way too often to make an 8:2.5 (8:2.6 or 2.7 maybe....) balanced in my opinion

anyway anyway. as far as changes to make. i found it surprisingly jarring in the recently completed mini 2076 when people flipped with like role madness shit half the time. Mafia Multitasking Compulsive-Fruit Vendor Fruit Vendor Enabler Visitor Enabler was the d2 flip and like i couldnt get over it for a while, i was pissed. maybe i'm weird in that but there's something to be said that people are generally expecting quiet and easy to follow setups in normals - a lot of people start on the normal queue, especially because it's way faster to fill than open. i get that the role sums up to weak masonizer and that's good but i would, uh, appreciate it if you picked up the friendly neighbor and put it on somebody else, or something. i think it needs a slight amount more town power as well, my stock suggestion here is usually a night 2 neapolitan but i think that has been in too many of my games already

[schadd_]

i should say i'm sort of struggling to evaluate the setup (esp. with traitor and the very tall role) and you could make the case for it with some more detailed scenarios of how it might play out

i think PT cop is a net neutral or otherwise very low impact

[Flavor Leaf]

Novice Weak Friendly Neighbor
Neighbor
Simple Neighborizer
Simple Combined Neapolitan Doctor
VTx4

Mafia PT Cop
Goon
Ascetic Neighbor


I’m kind of weary of giving town more power because a scum player like me could abuse that heavily.

I think adding 2 VT and making it a 13 player setup could work as well? Maybe add like a 2 shot JK to town.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think adding 2 VT and making it a 13 player setup could work as well? Maybe add like a 2 shot JK to town.

I think I would prefer this.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think adding 2 VT and making it a 13 player setup could work as well? Maybe add like a 2 shot JK to town.

I think I would prefer this.

In the case of the JK, it would be 1 VT, 1 JK.

[northsidegal]

so if i have this right, it's:

Novice Weak Friendly Neighbor
Neighbor
Simple Neighborizer
Simple Combined Neapolitan Doctor
2-shot Jailkeeper
VTx5

Mafia PT Cop
Goon
Ascetic Neighbor

[schadd_]

weak fn vs. ascetic maf is interesting. whenever there's a circumstance where there MIGHT be a confirmed town that just has to identify themself there's a dynamic of maf trying to wait until other people have claimed to try to identify whether anyone else got it and then claiming it yourself when it can be deduced that they didnt. i think there's a small chance this ends up helping scum any, more so interesting to possibly see

simple neapolitan is better ?? than regular neapolitan? the results on non-vanilla roles are more or less useless and the bonus of getting a strong guilty result outweighs them surely. doctor should be a rather marginal help

this looks balanced sure

[northsidegal]

you think so? my thoughts were that the two innocent-generating roles (weak FN + simple neap) were a bit too strong in tandem with the random utility roles of simple neighborizer and 2-shot JK versus basically ascetic being the only mafia power (PT cop has, in my opinion, low scum utility here — perhaps even a small negative utility in the assumption that masons exist, although that's a weak point).

is simple neapolitan better than regular neapolitan? okay nevermind it took me opening paint and making a diagram to see that it can get a hard guilty. i wonder if the person who has that role will realize that that's a thing?

[northsidegal]

what do you think about just turning the JK into a VT?

[schadd_]

weak fn is Weakened by the ascetic scum (and isn't wildly strong to begin with, it still dies when it guilties & kills a confirmed town when doing so) and neap is weakened by the broad swath of non-VT townies. i don't find simple neighborizer to be especially strong either here since PT cop is a perfectly reasonable town role here (i.e. the not-vanilla result isn't very damning)

[Flavor Leaf]

what do you think about just turning the JK into a VT?

That was my original plan, but thought you guys would say town was too weak.

Yeah, I have a tendency to make setups with a bunch of neutral roles. I think I like them

[schadd_]

thats fine! the norm is usually to shoot for at least half VTs which we have here

[northsidegal]

alright, you've convinced me that i was probably overrating those two prs (i think i was also overlooking the novice part), although i still do think that it's fairly swingy. i think there are going to be a

lot

of shenanigans this game come massclaim, which i'm interested to see play out.

let's see the role pms! also, daytalk enabled by default or no?

[Flavor Leaf]

Yes to Daytalk.

Role PM’s

Spoiler:

X5

Town

Welcome,

[Insert Name Here]

, you are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Abilities:

• During the day, you can vote and talk
• You do nothing special.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game thread is here. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

Town

Welcome,

[Insert Name Here]

, you are a

Novice Weak Friendly Neighbor

.

Abilities:

• Any night besides Night 1, you may target a player. That player will receive the message “[insert player name] is town.”
• If you target a player who is not aligned with town, you will die.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game thread is here. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

Town

Welcome,

[Insert Name Here]

, you are a

Neighbor

.

Abilities:

• During the day, you can vote and talk
• You have a neighborhood here with [insert Ascetic Neighbor player name here].

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game thread is here. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

Town

Welcome,

[Insert Name Here]

, you are a

Simple Neighborizer

.

Abilities:

• At night, you may target a player. If they are Vanilla, you will be given a neighborhood with them.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game thread is here. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

Town

Welcome,

[Insert Name Here]

, you are a

Simple Combined Neapolitan Doctor

.

Abilities:

• At night, you may target a player. If they are Vanilla, you will receive a “Vanilla” result, and they will be protected from a night kill. If they are not Vanilla, you will receive “No Result”.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game thread is here. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

Town

Welcome,

[Insert Name Here]

, you are a

2-shot Jailkeeper

.

Abilities:

• At night, you may target a player. You will roleblock and protect them from a nightkill.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game thread is here. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

Mafia

Welcome,

[Insert Name Here]

, you are a

Mafia Goon

.

Abilities:

• You do nothing special.
• Your private thread is here.

Win condition:

You win when you control at least 50% of the population or if this situation can no longer be prevented.

Game thread is here.. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

Mafia

Welcome,

[Insert Name Here]

, you are a

Mafia PT Cop

.

Abilities:

• At night, you may target a player. You will learn if they are in a Private Thread or not.
• Your private thread is here.

Win condition:

You win when you control at least 50% of the population or if this situation can no longer be prevented.

Game thread is here.. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

Mafia

Welcome,

[Insert Name Here]

, you are a

Mafia Ascetic Neighbor

.

Abilities:

• Here is a neighborhood with [insert Neighbor here].
• Actions targeting you will fail, except for killing actions.
• Your Mafia private thread is here.

Win condition:

You win when you control at least 50% of the population or if this situation can no longer be prevented.

Game thread is here.. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

[Flavor Leaf]

If we went with the non JK version, then 6 VT’s.

[schadd_]

i pass the jk version. especially w daytalk

[northsidegal]

your neapolitan role pm is wrong, you need to clarify that if they're vanilla you'll learn whether they're a VT or not, not just receiving a result of "vanilla" regardless

[Flavor Leaf]

Oops, I copied the wrong Bunyip Role PM.

Town

Welcome,

[Insert Name Here]

, you are a

Simple Combined Neapolitan Doctor

.

Abilities:

• At night, you may target a player. Your action will succeed only if they are Vanilla, and they will be protected from a night kill. If they are Vanilla Town, you will receive “Vanilla Town”. If not Vanilla Town, “Not Vanilla Town”.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game thread is here. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

[northsidegal]

that second sentence there is a bit awkwardly worded for my tastes

what do you think of splitting it up into two lines? something like "At night you may blah blah. You will learn if they are VT or not, and you will protect them from a nightkill" with the second line being "Your action will succeed only if your target is vanilla"

also i would prefer if in the jailkeeper role pm somewhere in the abilities section it made mention of "only two shots", or "twice only", or something. (not trying to be pedantic here, just want clarity given what i've heard about people being confused by weird games in the normal queue :>)