mini 2093, the search - an interminable period of darkness.

[chennisden]

please don't take anything i say in the scum pt personally. i was a little frustrated.

for transparency sake,

release the demons!!!

[PenguinPower]

Congrats to all the townies that won!

[skitter30]

I agree with pine, and he said it more eloquently than i could

[Pine]

I agree with pine, and he said it more eloquently than i could

...that was eloquent? I stopped just short of using the word “butthurt”

[skitter30]

I tried writing a post expressing the same thing and couldnt find the right words so

[Channel Fireball]

Yes, we broke the setup. Yes, the balance could have been better. But the setup was original, creative, and downright fun to play. EP deserves Scummy consideration.

No it wasn't...? The entire scum team conceded for reasons that were directly tied to the mechanical design of the setup. "Interesting" doesn't mean "good". Nominating this design for a scummy is presenting something as a positive example when that example really didn't work? Like this setup needed a lot of work to be good. You can't just write off balance when the reason the scum team imploded had a lot to do with one of the scum team having half the game as lynchers on them and them having no nightkill. You can't say the setup was good when it clearly felt very tilting. Two different people basically want to leave the site in part because of this game so I'm sorry you can call my slot butthurt all you want but saying this game is scummy worthy just makes you seem confused on what makes good design.

Like I disagree with even the more subtextual point here. You seem to want to say that mods should take more risks. That is the opposite of the sites problem right now. The site's problem is that too many mods are creating setups that have very poor game feel in execution. There are too many setups taking too many risks with too little review right now, which is why wins and losses very often feel arbitrary or more based on pregame design than actual play. This setup tried to add a lot of bells and whistles but let rotten elements slip through. That the game was advertised as bastard but it still looks this bad is jarring.

[Errantparabola]

I have already mentioned that I would strongly prefer this game not be nominated for its design.

Edit: to clarify, if I have the power to pull it from consideration in response to you nominating it, I will do so.

Edit 2: to clarify further, this is not me implicitly agreeing with Channel Fireball. I personally believe I have more than adequately responded to their specific complaint(s). But yes, I firmly believe this setup does not deserve recognition.

[Menalque]

I’d love to play this again if you reworked it, EP

[Errantparabola]

very unfortunately that will never happen :, )

[Menalque]

I appreciate that balance would likely always be an issue due to needing to change the secret wincons to keep them, well, secret, but still

[Menalque]

Oh, sad times

[Pine]

I have already mentioned that I would strongly prefer this game not be nominated for its design.

Edit: to clarify, if I have the power to pull it from consideration in response to you nominating it, I will do so.

Edit 2: to clarify further, this is not me implicitly agreeing with Channel Fireball. I personally believe I have more than adequately responded to their specific complaint(s). But yes, I firmly believe this setup does not deserve recognition.

Very well, then. Suffice it to say that I personally appreciate the thought, effort, and creativity that went into this concept. Ignore the bullshit (like “the entire scumteam quit” - no they didn’t, one had a tantrum after two went down swinging).

Keep making fun games, and I’ll keep eagerly playing them.

[cyrus62]

Errantparabola you did great had i know bandits were town i wouldnt have hurt the game so badly.

[gobbledygook]

Did Deb just not submit his alternate wincon stuff...?

Phew! That was a tense game. I thought for sure that CF was lying about only having 1 Vig shot. That’s why I lied about my role. I enjoyed the game and thought it was appropriately advertised. I admitted to EP when I got my role on that this game was definitely i Troy bastard because I thought it would be impossible to win given my role ability.

These would be my improvements to the setup:
Bounty Hunter had an unlimited vigilante shot that ONLY works on the Outlaw. Additionally, even though it only works on the Outlaw it could still be blocked. This would add in appropriate wifom. Their rolecop ability I think should be gated in some way.

Mafia should know about each other’s winconditions. Additionally, the mafia Bandit should have had the Mafia Hitman wincondition tjat Flavor Leaf won for his scummy. It encourages bussing, but in a very specific way.

One of the mafia (Empress) should have had a wincon to keep the Outlaw alive until endgame with the ability to transfer protect the Outlaw at least once.

I think the true/false whisperer not being the conventional town and scum was good. The 50/50 would be an even better solution.
I would remove the Priest knowing about the prophet. I think an even more fun potential is to have the prophet be scum and both whisperers be town.

PP Rest In Peace. You died a hero.

From my perspective, Cyrus’s reveal only accelerated the end for the mafia. ARO, Numbers, and Cyrus were not in good positions at the end of Day 1. I am sad that CF seems to be quitting. Their tell was amazing and helped disintegrate the mafia team. That said, I think they should have just replaced out instead of whining about the game. At that point, let EP deal with creating a borked setup. It isn’t like anyone knew who they were and would hold this against them.

I enjoyed myself but I don’t know if that is because I double won, or if I just had a better mindset about this game. My one frustration was that everyone was operating on an alt wincon first victory which, as I said in the game, was incredibly short sighted. I would be interested in playing in another game like this with a little bit more polish. Or not. maybe I’ll get to be the Vig.

Skitter, I am afraid of you now. You have a mafia scummy and you were driving a pretty hard wedge in the town by refusing to do anything with Numbers. You will not be trusted moving forward.

[skitter30]

yeah idk i have enough clout/rep/charisma/stubborness that sometimes people will like ~listen to me~ and i can usually push most things i want through, if i go at it hard enough, for better or for worse, esp when i'm town esp when numbers start dwindling

sometimes obviously it's better for people to not listen to me (cough see here cough) or i should step back ... but i'm not always that great at recognizing that bit

[Channel Fireball]

I think they should have just replaced out instead of whining about the game.

When Fireball correctly realized we were in a lost position, she stopped playing the game and effectively did replace out. She hasn't even looked at the game since she said she was done with it. The nice thing about hydras is that if one player quits the other can play it out, so I don't really see why you're complaining about whining. I feel like my points here were pretty constructive, and I think telling someone that they should replace out simply because the game is unwinnable is saying you think someone should replace in to an already lost game. That's not what the replacement queue is for lol

[chennisden]

the one thing i'd say was kinda confusing was the limited nightkills.

[Menalque]

Any feedback/ego stroking for me, turkey?

[Menalque]

The feedback would be more useful, but the ego stroking would be more welcomed

[chennisden]

menalque hit scum in the cojones

[chennisden]

please don't take anything i say in the scum pt personally. i was a little frustrated.

for transparency sake,

release the demons!!!

also i take this back for now

no release

i need to sleep and think on it and there's a

reason

that i might not want it released and i want to hash it out in my head before i say "yes release pls."

[gobbledygook]

Any feedback/ego stroking for me, turkey?

You are very entertaining and I have no idea how to read you. This will make you both hard to kill but also hard to trust. I would play with you again!

[Errantparabola]

i need to sleep and think on it and there's a reason that i might not want it released and i want to hash it out in my head before i say "yes release pls."

I will be releasing the scum PT regardless but if you want to point me to posts that you want redacted then I will do that

[chennisden]

i need to sleep and think on it and there's a reason that i might not want it released and i want to hash it out in my head before i say "yes release pls."

I will be releasing the scum PT regardless but if you want to point me to posts that you want redacted then I will do that

okay, then ill just do the whole thing unredacted. i think

[gobbledygook]

I think they should have just replaced out instead of whining about the game.

When Fireball correctly realized we were in a lost position, she stopped playing the game and effectively did replace out. She hasn't even looked at the game since she said she was done with it. The nice thing about hydras is that if one player quits the other can play it out, so I don't really see why you're complaining about whining. I feel like my points here were pretty constructive, and I think telling someone that they should replace out simply because the game is unwinnable is saying you think someone should replace in to an already lost game. That's not what the replacement queue is for lol

I didn’t tell you to replace out because your slot was unwinnable. I said to replace out instead whining because your winning stemmed from you very publicly not enjoying the game. Life is too short for you to waste your time playing a game you dont enjoy. If you were reading a crappy book, watching a bad show, watching a worse movie, etc I would tell you to cut your losses. Your time and energy are more valuable than staying in an unfun situation out of principle. There’s plenty of players like me who replace into games just to mess around and don’t really care about the end result. If the slot is gonna get hung, so be it. The replacement knows that and agrees to it.

I do acknowledge your grievances and I think they are accurate. I just think you and your partner could have handled the situation better. Sadly I think if Chennis was a better scum play you probably save your shot and have a better shot at doing stuff.