Mini Normal 2095 - Game Over!

[Iconeum]

And all the other shit I posted

[Iconeum]

quality pagetop right there

[Datisi]

Spoiler:

[Klick]

I think Tchill's progression lately has been town. He seems to have a motivation behind his posting that aligns more with finding scum than what I'd imagine he would want to do as scum right now.
I want to look into Alisae's meta next chance I get, because multiple people have said this is her town game and I want to confirm that for myself before accepting it as fact. Could those who have made that claim go into more detail about the differences between this game and Alisae's scum game?
I tried looking into Luca's meta earlier because I felt as though a lot of what he was getting pressured for was a playstyle quirk. I'd like to look at it more before making any conclusive statements.

But for the most part this has been blips of 10-20 minutes or so of looking at things when I get a chance. A close relative has fallen ill so this isn't at the top of my priorities. Still, I'll do what I can.

[Iconeum]

Also, you keep saying how I have the most scum equity and how I need to be the Day 1 lynch. Why the hell do you unvote me, when my wagon is just getting momentum again, and vote Ali, who has no votes on them?

Let's talk about this. Why the hell WOULD I unvote and revote you so many times if I am scum? If I'm scum and I want you lynched, i push hard. It wouldn't be a far stretch for scum!Icon to be tunneling you at any point. If you are town and think i'm scum, what is my motivation to move away 'just when the wagon was getting momentum again'?

Wouldn't that be a bit counterproductive to my mission then?

[Iconeum]

Could it be I'm genuinly doubting what do you with you, and am willing to look/push elsewhere today?

[Iconeum]

You can call me indecisive and vote hopping if you like, but those aren't scum traits.

[Iconeum]

Alisae's ketchup analysis

565 immediately pushes against someone voting Datisi
574 it took until post 85 (Luca) to start the tunnel.

I haven’t played Mafia for ages but I can’t ever remember seeing a specified townbloc - usually there comes a point where you naturally start trying to work with the people you strongly believe are Town - it’s rarely something that needs highlighting in of itself.

This appears to be a 50x repeat vote worthy offensive post because of? Reasons? Luca explains his thoughts that he thinks a townblock should start naturally instead of forced. I don't see the scum motivation in this post but apparently Ali does.

584 again the 50x vote against Luca, again without a single word of explanation. Let's see

Looking over Datisi's ISO - it's full of game theory chat and passive questioning - this is where my slightly below null read originates from. The only real point of interest is 99 - Would scum do such a 'test'? Looking back at it, it felt a bit unnecessary of Datisi because Billy's answer to Klick's original question already provided the 'townslip'. I think I'm leaning towards this being an act from scum who are at a loss of what to do, so choose to do something that appears to be useful Town work, with the additional benefit of getting a Townie onside (which, if this scenario is accurate, would have been successful given Pilgrims TR of Datisi).

This is still very much a work in progress, but my reads are something like this at the moment:

Tchill
Klick
Pilgrim, Icon, Flippy,
Datisi

Incidentally, Flippy's reaction to the same incident looked pretty genuine, which is why I've put him around the null level. I actually dislike such tests as it causes me to doubt myself; such reactions can look so effective, yet be so easily faked by a good player

Oh, could it be a Luca post directed against Datisi? Big surprise.
Luca rightfully so calls out Datisi for having a bad ISO (something she doesn't even really counter because she knows she hasn't had any good reads yet). Puts up an early read list and calls it a 'work in progress' AS IT SHOULD BE TO ANYONE AT THIS STAGE OF THE GAME.
He 'could' have voted Datisi here, but didn't. This is being put forth as a scumclaim, and I say I don't vote there as town either 100% of the time.

If only Ali would explain the scumread that would help, right?

591 another 50x vote against Luca, again NO FUCKING EXPLANATION. Luca gives a Klick review, there's literally nothing wrong with this.

592 begins pocketing Datisi for 'having a good read' while Datisi herself thinks she hasn't had one yet (perfectly fine if you are town btw I don't mean that as a bad thing).
For the record, that catchup post from Datisi is what the game is scumreading her for, but Ali thinks it conftows her. And nobody is making an issue of this but me.

594 is another bullshit callout against Luca, nothing else but 'bruuuh'. Luca's post isn't a scum one. It's calling out for more relevant talk and content. You know, the stuff town needs to win the game.

595 'Ali is all caught up' and has mentioned the wagon on Datisi exactly 0 times. It was a big thing, most players were working on it one way or another. Apparently it was more important to naked vote a million times and say 'bruuuh'. That was the FULL EXTENT of Luca push.

I call Ali out and in 599 the opinion is nothing more then 'Datisi wagon is trash'.

608 Luca makes a vote on Datisi with a solid explanation, but is further shaded by Ali.

636 finally is more extensive, but alas made up.

'Luca - His whole ISO sucks. Nothing in there is actually substanial at all. All of his reads come across as making stuff up on the fly (a lot of times when he is talking about a read, he gives himself room for said read to go either way). He's not really taking any risks and is in general playing really safe. I really want to see Luca go after something instead of just do nothing. Because a lot of what his ISO is nothing. And anything that like, remotely looks like analysis is really surface level stuff.
54 is just a gut scummy start mostly because I don't like the fact he has to feel like he has to have a stance first thing.'

Did anyone think Luca was shading/not taking a stance? I sure didn't. Because he was.

After this there is a TON of bullshit posts directed at Luca that contain little more then 'waah waah scum is crying' or worse.

I seriously don't feel like Ali is serious about this case he has on Luca, and it feels like the ketchup was 'steered' onto a Luca scumread from the getgo.

And because I don't think scumbuddy Ali comes in protecting scumbuddy Datisi like that, I'm having serious doubts about Datisi and would rather pressure Ali at this point.

[Iconeum]

I hate walls just as much as the next guy, but if you are gonna read 1 then please

It shows the Ali progression on Luca and just what is being scumread by Ali.

[Datisi]

Could it be I'm genuinly doubting what do you with you, and am willing to look/push elsewhere today?

Then if you think that I could be Town, wouldn't you point out which posts made you think so/the thought process behind it?

[Iconeum]

Could it be I'm genuinly doubting what do you with you, and am willing to look/push elsewhere today?

Then if you think that I could be Town, wouldn't you point out which posts made you think so/the thought process behind it?

Unfortunately, it's the same posts that make me scumread you. It's a matter of interpretation and finding your motivation for posting.
What I read previously as a 'bad catchup' could indeed be a confused townie trying to put out effort when called upon. It felt forced and shallow, but if a town doesn't have actual reads yet then it will put something like that out.

My mind is going like this: 'does that shallow catchup come from Town! or Scum'Datisi'

And I am changing my mind about it daily

[Iconeum]

Not only that, but the way Ali came in and how Flippy voted you makes me question the wagon

[Datisi]

And because I don't think scumbuddy Ali comes in protecting scumbuddy Datisi like that, I'm having serious doubts about Datisi and would rather pressure Ali at this point.

Agh, I don't know about this.

You say you don't think the team is Ali/Datisi. Fine. But this makes is seem like you want to push Ali today, and if they flip Town, go "oh well Datisi was scum all along lol". Because I have a feeling lynching Ali today then me tomorrow is gonna require much less scum effort than the other way around.

[Iconeum]

Alright, here's where I am right now: (most to least town)

Billy

- I feel like he's playing like classic Town!Billy. Plus, I think scum!Billy would've tried to pocket me (rather than downgrading his TR), especially as my lynch is starting to get more and more likely.

Klick

- Still having the same vibes from him as in the beginning.

A50

- Granted, we've been in the game together for only a short while, so this is subject to change, but he seems towny so far. Plus I can feel being confused about reads.

Tchill

- He feels genuine, at least enough for D1.

Icon

- I know posting gifs and fooling around is his style, but he seems to be almost pushing it.

Emperor

- I don't see why such activity couldn't be coming from scum who's purposefully trying to have such a playstyle.

Luca

- Their posts seem... fake? I can't explain it well, but I just feel their posts are so devoid of life, like they're cold and calculated. It could be just their playstyle, but it's giving me bad vibes.

Kop

- I mean, yeah.

While I'm fine with voting Kop here, they feel like low-hanging fruit, so I'm gonna VOTE: Luca

I liked your Billy read.

I understand the Klick read.

A50 fair enough.

Tchill feels fency. Like a scum!Datisi can't call everyone town, so Tchill gets a read that is easily turned around later without looking suspicious

Icon. You awknowledge my behaviour as normal, you say nothing about my intent or other (actual) content, but decide to downgrade your read of me because of gifs. Feels icky.

Emperor. While I agree with the read, there is also 0 intent from you to push this slot for content. It's fine to have bad reads, but you are not persuing getting better ones. That's not town motivated.

Luca - we've already extensively covered this one.

Kop. Can't say this read isn't shallow, right?

The way you say you'd be fine with voting Kop (explanation: 'yeah') but end up voting Luca (which is perfectly normal being your scumread) feels weird. Like an overexplanation to an action only scum would bother making.

[Iconeum]

You say you don't think the team is Ali/Datisi. Fine. But this makes is seem like you want to push Ali today, and if they flip Town, go "oh well Datisi was scum all along lol". Because I have a feeling lynching Ali today then me tomorrow is gonna require much less scum effort than the other way around.

I can see you'd think this. But the same goes to anyone making pre-flip associations.

But why don't you feel the same way about Ali pushing Luca, and if that flips town he'd pressure me next? Same thing.

[Iconeum]

You say you don't think the team is Ali/Datisi. Fine. But this makes is seem like you want to push Ali today

The more this game develops, the more I see an Alisae with a gameplan. I don't have that with you. I'm afraid I've been pushing a lost townie into making 'bad' posts and then scumreading them for it.

Ali however is just bullying Luca into a lynch at this point, and I really don't like how he's going about it. So yeah i'd much rather push there right now.

[Datisi]

Kop. Can't say this read isn't shallow, right?

Kop had a whooping total of 2 posts at the time, and others had allready called them out for it. There really wasn't much I could've added that wouldn't be repeating from before.

But why don't you feel the same way about Ali pushing Luca, and if that flips town he'd pressure me next? Same thing.

Because you weren't the default lynch for today. If Luca flipped Town today, sure Ali would go after you, but how many would actually be willing to follow?
While a lot have already expressed that they want me dead, and if Ali flipped Town today (hell, even if they flipped scum) tell me I wouldn't be the default lynch again tomorrow.

You say you don't think the team is Ali/Datisi. Fine. But this makes is seem like you want to push Ali today

The more this game develops, the more I see an Alisae with a gameplan. I don't have that with you. I'm afraid I've been pushing a lost townie into making 'bad' posts and then scumreading them for it.

Ali however is just bullying Luca into a lynch at this point, and I really don't like how he's going about it. So yeah i'd much rather push there right now.

Okay, let's say Ali flips today. Then what happens tomorrow?

[Iconeum]

Kop. Can't say this read isn't shallow, right?

Kop had a whooping total of 2 posts at the time, and others had allready called them out for it. There really wasn't much I could've added that wouldn't be repeating from before.

But why don't you feel the same way about Ali pushing Luca, and if that flips town he'd pressure me next? Same thing.

Because you weren't the default lynch for today. If Luca flipped Town today, sure Ali would go after you, but how many would actually be willing to follow?
While a lot have already expressed that they want me dead, and if Ali flipped Town today (hell, even if they flipped scum) tell me I wouldn't be the default lynch again tomorrow.

You say you don't think the team is Ali/Datisi. Fine. But this makes is seem like you want to push Ali today

The more this game develops, the more I see an Alisae with a gameplan. I don't have that with you. I'm afraid I've been pushing a lost townie into making 'bad' posts and then scumreading them for it.

Ali however is just bullying Luca into a lynch at this point, and I really don't like how he's going about it. So yeah i'd much rather push there right now.

Okay, let's say Ali flips today. Then what happens tomorrow?

I don't know.

[Iconeum]

That's the thing.

If we lynch Datisi today, you either flip town or scum. If you are scum, then I would go after Ali today for the way he protected you. If you flip town, I'd still go after Ali for the way he protected you and the unfounded case on Luca so I guess that's why I switched votes

[Iconeum]

And once again, you scumread me but why would I, as scum, be sticking my neck out like this going against a powerplayer when I could take the expected path and tunnel you to death without drawing unnecesarry attention to myself?

[Datisi]

That's the thing.

If we lynch Datisi today, you either flip town or scum.

If you are scum, then I would go after Ali today for the way he protected you.

If you flip town, I'd still go after Ali for the way he protected you and the unfounded case on Luca so I guess that's why I switched votes

I thought you didn't think we were buddies?

And once again, you scumread me but why would I, as scum, be sticking my neck out like this going against a powerplayer when I could take the expected path and tunnel you to death without drawing unnecesarry attention to myself?

I'm not sure if you even can deathtunnel me at this point. I'm trying to figure out what's happening.

[Iconeum]

Let me ask you this then, Datisi.

If you get the Luca lynch today, what happens tomorrow?

[Iconeum]

I thought you didn't think we were buddies?

I'm doubting what I said.

[Iconeum]

I'm trying to figure out what's happening.

Do you feel I'm working an agenda or am I doing the same thing?

[Datisi]

Let me ask you this then, Datisi.

If you get the Luca lynch today, what happens tomorrow?

If he's scum, we scramble around and continue yelling at each other until we figure something out.
If he's Town, I'm powerlynched.

I'm trying to figure out what's happening.

Do you feel I'm working an agenda or am I doing the same thing?

At this point I'm starting to think your actions are too illogical/inconsistent to have an agenda behind them. But I don't know if scum!Icon's able to fake that.