Newbie 1951 (Day 4)

[teacher]

768 on Creeper: NMSA, Seleynee, Menalque, Skitter (Menalque leaves in 790

This almost certainly contains a scum.

@Menalque, I really need that skitter evolution verbalization.

[teacher]

Because they havent been much of a presence in the game but have been on almost all the wagons except Menalque - where she certainly wasnt pushing against. Like lowkey flexing them through. Mostly because Id want to see them react to pressure.

Makes sense though I don't exactly see why I could have had a TR on Menalque.

In fact, I think you did at least from skimming your ISO. But then why werent you pushing against/pushing a different person?

[NotMySpamAccount]

768 on Creeper: NMSA, Seleynee,

Menalque

, Skitter (Menalque leaves in 790

This almost certainly contains a scum.

@Menalque, I really need that skitter evolution verbalization.

There it is.

[teacher]

Fine

Just loudly repeating that i still think menalque is scum

VOTE: epic

Oh, I agree. I just think creeper is better for today.

Can you walk me through your menalque thoughts? Since the reaction test, youve been sitting back and being more the D1 Spam Im familiar w.

[Farkran]

lol. I kinda feel bad for creeper now, i honestly believed he was a distant VT doing his best to play in a new environment. Like seriously, he was playing BAD, but i could kinda... feel for him. I was actually going to advocate you a bit because me and you were the true newbies here, first game on the site and all, but claiming a PR in this context is... something you don't do with this setup. Like, ever. Before your next game i strongly advise to read some more data on how a forum mafia is played. I did the same mistake with this game, i jumped in because i really wanted to play FM again and didn't think it could be SO MUCH different from my earlier experience, but it... is, seriously. Terminology, analysis, meta influence and playerbase are all VERY different.

Eh, whatever, i'll leave my long discussion on how, back in my days, everything was different, for when this game is over. Which is going to be pretty soon.

I am a MASON

, i believe some of you guys caught that during my flow of posts. That is also the reason why i went over the whole PR speculation stuff (in this particular setup ONLY) - i know exactly who the two town PRs are, and we aren't afraid of being roleblocked because we have no night action. I did not claim on intent to prevent mafia from learning the exact game setup, and also to protect my partner. We also crumbed way earlier in this thread, i will reveal my crumb if my partner agrees.

Menalque-creeper as gamesolve is confirmed.

[teacher]

there is a simpler explanation (actually more than one).

Thats the other explanation - you as a PR.

OK. Dont out the partner now (its a narrow enough field without it).

[Selynee]

@Teacher

I didn't have a TR on Menalque. I was answering Farkran and agreed with at least a post that I thought was trying to sort us, and some reads they brought that I said were kind of....well, could have come from either mafia or town. I had doubts on the NMSA read. The intend things I've read in two ways- town seriously trying to lynch a scumread (yeah, thought he was serious even if discussions would obviously be part of it) or mafia trying to get a claim.

I have a tendency to believe someone acting like they don't care to defend themselves or saying they'd do the same if they were X that they are actually telling the truth (IRL but guess in game as well). Still this is not objectively true.

So, yeah, I didn't really find enough reasons to try to push against against it.

[teacher]

VOTE: Creeper

[Farkran]

Is it customary to give intent in any and all circumstances?

intent

, anyways.

[teacher]

I've been more reticent on fark than I think I might have been and I think you know why

This is also why I was coming around on Menalque for playing the same possibility.

[teacher]

Is it customary to give intent in any and all circumstances?

intent

, anyways.

Yes, it is customary except for deadline pressures. It isnt necessary here.

TBH, though, I think town benefits from playing out the day and chatting more so Im going to take the hammer away from scum as well.

UNVOTE: Creeper[/vote]

But Im not voting anywhere else.

[teacher]

UNVOTE: Creeper

[teacher]

We also crumbed way earlier in this thread

For the benefit of newbs, this is the right way to play Masons for sure - an early convoluted crumb whose key is in your PT in case you get NKed. Well done.

[Selynee]

Great. See no setup with both masons and tracker.

[Farkran]

Great. See no setup with both masons and tracker.

See Column A, row 2 and row 3.

[teacher]

I dont think Menalque is the solve tho. I think he would have discussed safeclaims - his last scum game involved a counterclaim-off. I also think he coaches in the scum-PT more -> to be active and how to respond. I mean it is certainly possible and would be fine lynching him, but want to raise that.

I need to reevaluate the other newbs.

@Menalque, in case it wasnt clear, its time to talk about your skitter evolution.

[teacher]

Great. See no setup with both masons and tracker.

See Column A, row 2 and row 3.

Yea, but those are each 1 setup. A game is either A2 or A3; cant be both. That is why your claim is a counter to his, and more credible. (I think you know this, just that your response to Selynee is ambiguous).

[EpicCreeper9002]

I find it a really odd play to get us both lynched to avoid Follow the Tracker when you don't even know there's a doctor but okay

VOTE: Farkran

[Farkran]

I dont think Menalque is the solve tho. I think he would have discussed safeclaims - his last scum game involved a counterclaim-off. I also think he coaches in the scum-PT more -> to be active and how to respond. I mean it is certainly possible and would be fine lynching him, but want to raise that.

I need to reevaluate the other newbs.

@Menalque, in case it wasnt clear, its time to talk about your skitter evolution.

Eh, i thought for a while about whether Menalque could be NOT gamesolve, but, well... he jumped off creeper's train when it was given intent, made up some narrative about skitter (which made sense though, that is why i wanted to get menalque before creeper at the time - if he flipped scum as i thought he would, it would have cleared my doubts and we could go ahead) AND changed his playstyle based on what meta!fark did on emps. The narrative and playstyle shift were good - before he jumped off the train i literally said in my PT that i was townreading him. Jumping off the creeper train was a huge mistake.

Also i think that for some reason they couldn't communicate properly. In this setup, mafia can talk during the day in the same way masons can, am i correct? How come creeper has been playing that poorly if he could communicate with... anyone either than him here? Even i, with my inexperience of this site standards, would have told him to actually DO SOMETHING and i swear, no way he would have claimed a PR if i was his partner and he could read me.

[teacher]

119 on

Farkran

:

Seleynee,

Sushi Martyr, Emps, Menalque (Sushi unvotes after hammer test)
368 on

Farkran

:

Seleynee

, emps,

skitter30

, teacher (Menalque gives intent in 399; Skitter leaves in 474)
540 on Menalque: NMSA, Teacher, Skitter, Farkran (Teacher leaves in 541)
768 on

Creeper

:

NMSA, Seleynee,

Menalque,

Skitter

(Menalque leaves in 790

I color coded the above based on current claims and which one I believe. Assuming Creeper flips red, I think Fark, Spam, Seleynee, and Skitter are all town-cleared.

That is helpful to reverse apply to the Fark wagon, which pretty much has to have a scum. I think it makes the lynch pool essentially (Menalque-sushi-me-emps), such that we only really have to remove one. I'll take the 75%ev with pleasure.

[teacher]

In this setup, mafia can talk during the day in the same way masons can, am i correct? How come creeper has been playing that poorly if he could communicate with... anyone either than him here? Even i, with my inexperience of this site standards, would have told him to actually DO SOMETHING and i swear, no way he would have claimed a PR if i was his partner and he could read me.

Yea, they can. But you will find most scumchats are vastly underutilized. Still, I think thats the biggest argument against Menalque, who used his heavily in 1938. Could be Creeper just doesnt like scum and so wasnt active enough there or willing to follow instruction.

I do think 65 looks like a goad to misread. And his early game was scummy AF so that + the wagon analysis earlier + my reads on emps/Sushi would make him my choice for tomorrow either way.

[teacher]

119 on

Farkran

:

Seleynee,

Sushi Martyr, Emps, Menalque (Sushi unvotes after hammer test)
368 on

Farkran

:

Seleynee

, emps,

skitter30

, teacher (Menalque gives intent in 399; Skitter leaves in 474)
540 on Menalque: NMSA, Teacher, Skitter, Farkran (Teacher leaves in 541)
768 on

Creeper

:

NMSA, Seleynee,

Menalque,

Skitter

(Menalque leaves in 790

I color coded the above based on current claims and which one I believe. Assuming Creeper flips red, I think Fark, Spam, Seleynee, and Skitter are all town-cleared.

That is helpful to reverse apply to the Fark wagon, which pretty much has to have a scum. I think it makes the lynch pool essentially (Menalque-sushi-me-emps), such that we only really have to remove one. I'll take the 75%ev with pleasure.

Actually, I know you all dont know Im town, but the 540 wagon also convicts Menalque IMO. Its all town and me -- so Im either the scum or menalque is. Game set match.

[Farkran]

I find it a really odd play to get us both lynched to avoid Follow the Tracker when you don't even know there's a doctor but okay

VOTE: Farkran

Er... i don't think you understood how the setup works. Your game is pretty much over, so i believe i can share some helpful info for you now. If you say you are a

tracker

, the only way there can be a

doctor

would be Column B, row 3. This can only be true if in your mafia team there is a

Mafia Rolecop

, which you don't have. You have a

Mafia Roleblocker

instead, the only setup that allows a tracker claim and masons in the same game.

Of course town does not know that, but masons can be conf!town basically any time they want. Even in the remote assumption that town decides to lynch me, when they see my mason flip, they will be able to confirm that there can NOT be a doctor with a tracker in the game.

[teacher]

I find it a really odd play to get us both lynched to avoid Follow the Tracker when you don't even know there's a doctor but okay

VOTE: Farkran

Er... i don't think you understood how the setup works. Your game is pretty much over, so i believe i can share some helpful info for you now. If you say you are a

tracker

, the only way there can be a

doctor

would be Column B, row 3. This can only be true if in your mafia team there is a

Mafia Rolecop

, which you don't have. You have a

Mafia Roleblocker

instead,

the only setup that allows a tracker claim and masons in the same game

.

Of course town does not know that, but masons can be conf!town basically any time they want. Even in the remote assumption that town decides to lynch me, when they see my mason flip, they will be able to confirm that there can NOT be a doctor with a tracker in the game.

OK, there is clear setup confusion.

There are 9 different setups, not 3. Like a game can only be A1, A2, OR A3. Thus there is NO setup that allows a tracker to exist with masons. One of you must be scum.

[Farkran]

119 on

Farkran

:

Seleynee,

Sushi Martyr, Emps, Menalque (Sushi unvotes after hammer test)
368 on

Farkran

:

Seleynee

, emps,

skitter30

, teacher (Menalque gives intent in 399; Skitter leaves in 474)
540 on Menalque: NMSA, Teacher, Skitter, Farkran (Teacher leaves in 541)
768 on

Creeper

:

NMSA, Seleynee,

Menalque,

Skitter

(Menalque leaves in 790

I color coded the above based on current claims and which one I believe. Assuming Creeper flips red, I think Fark, Spam, Seleynee, and Skitter are all town-cleared.

That is helpful to reverse apply to the Fark wagon, which pretty much has to have a scum. I think it makes the lynch pool essentially (Menalque-sushi-me-emps), such that we only really have to remove one. I'll take the 75%ev with pleasure.

Actually, I know you all dont know Im town, but the 540 wagon also convicts Menalque IMO. Its all town and me -- so Im either the scum or menalque is. Game set match.

Good analysis on the trains there, that's pretty much what i did in post 808. I pretty much went to the same conclusions and i just literally written in my PT that "if it isn't menalque, it's teacher. I egoistically want it to be teacher because i would have been -luckily- correct since game start but it's menalque lol"