Newbie 1951 (Day 4)

[teacher]

Pagetop.

Also, Creeper, Mason is never a fake counterclaim because it requires a second.

Though, tbh, given the narrow game-solve pool, it may make sense to require the second to out now and confirm. But I will leave that for others, since Im that gamesolve and think I know the partner anyways.

[Farkran]

I find it a really odd play to get us both lynched to avoid Follow the Tracker when you don't even know there's a doctor but okay

VOTE: Farkran

Er... i don't think you understood how the setup works. Your game is pretty much over, so i believe i can share some helpful info for you now. If you say you are a

tracker

, the only way there can be a

doctor

would be Column B, row 3. This can only be true if in your mafia team there is a

Mafia Rolecop

, which you don't have. You have a

Mafia Roleblocker

instead,

the only setup that allows a tracker claim and masons in the same game

.

Of course town does not know that, but masons can be conf!town basically any time they want. Even in the remote assumption that town decides to lynch me, when they see my mason flip, they will be able to confirm that there can NOT be a doctor with a tracker in the game.

OK, there is clear setup confusion.

There are 9 different setups, not 3. Like a game can only be A1, A2, OR A3. Thus there is NO setup that allows a tracker to exist with masons. One of you must be scum.

I meant that Column A is the only one that allows a tracker

claim

and

true

masons, therefore they have a roleblocker+goon. He should know that, so why mention a possible doctor? In this game it makes little difference, but in one with a larger solve pool it could have been relevant

[teacher]

I find it a really odd play to get us both lynched to avoid Follow the Tracker when you don't even know there's a doctor but okay

VOTE: Farkran

Er... i don't think you understood how the setup works. Your game is pretty much over, so i believe i can share some helpful info for you now. If you say you are a

tracker

, the only way there can be a

doctor

would be Column B, row 3. This can only be true if in your mafia team there is a

Mafia Rolecop

, which you don't have. You have a

Mafia Roleblocker

instead,

the only setup that allows a tracker claim and masons in the same game

.

Of course town does not know that, but masons can be conf!town basically any time they want. Even in the remote assumption that town decides to lynch me, when they see my mason flip, they will be able to confirm that there can NOT be a doctor with a tracker in the game.

OK, there is clear setup confusion.

There are 9 different setups, not 3. Like a game can only be A1, A2, OR A3. Thus there is NO setup that allows a tracker to exist with masons. One of you must be scum.

I meant that Column A is the only one that allows a tracker

claim

and

true

masons, therefore they have a roleblocker+goon. He should know that, so why mention a possible doctor? In this game it makes little difference, but in one with a larger solve pool it could have been relevant

You can always claim tracker -- in fact, it was the safeclaim in the old 2d3 setup. You can claim it (or any other role) whether or not they exist in the column. Though the first time someone claims 1-shot ascetic fruit vendor will likely be the last....

[teacher]

By that I mean that a fake claim has to be in the matrix, but not necessarily in the right column. Like youre assuming a RB, which may not be the case. In fact, at this point, I kinda expect goonies, but wouldnt bet any more than I do on a coinflip.

[NotMySpamAccount]

lol I missed Creeper's claim on my skim earlier, but that confirms him as scum with Fark's mason claim. also my tr on fark is vindicated.

[NotMySpamAccount]

Are we waiting on the other mason to claim, or should someone hammer Creeper?

[emps]

I find it a really odd play to get us both lynched to avoid Follow the Tracker when you don't even know there's a doctor but okay

VOTE: Farkran

the fuck? i told all masons, cops, or trackers to cc. fark is a mason and they cced...

[emps]

i think its a better idea for the last mason to fullclaim so scum cant cc but im not sure

[NotMySpamAccount]

unless fark crumbed his partner as well. did you?

[emps]

fark did crumb his partner

[teacher]

Here are my thoughts:

A mason fakeclaim is like a never in a million years thing, because it requires a second confirmation, which would out the scumteam in full upon flipping the original claimant. So it almost always makes sense to lynch the other PR claim first, and the masons should be able to confirm later if they played proper (and fark says they have).

That said, the gamesolve pool is narrow enough that I think locking another player as town makes sense, and it gets rid of the chance that Fark decided to YOLO counterclaim in column B so that we cant play follow the tracker. So in this specific game situation, unlike most, Im inclined to have the full out. But I would vote creeper either way RN, so dont feel strongly at all.

[teacher]

We

also crumbed way earlier in this thread, i will reveal my crumb if my partner agrees.

He says yes.

[NotMySpamAccount]

Then it's fime to hammer creeper, since the other mason can out tomorrow.

[emps]

but fark is almost always the nk here

[emps]

oh wait the other mason just claims d3

[emps]

if they get cced we win

[teacher]

But a Tracker!Creep flip means the second never comes out if we wait.
And a second mason out on a scumlynch D1 basically doesnt change anything -- it just locks the N1 and N2 kill, and I think the pool is similiarly narrow for Fark's partner (Im down to two myself).

[Farkran]

unless fark crumbed his partner as well. did you?

Yes, we both crumbed, other mason can conf!himself easily.

[emps]

oh wait if creeper is actually tracker we can just wait for the other pr to cc fark

[NotMySpamAccount]

ah I see. so other mason should claim.

[Farkran]

but fark is almost always the nk here

Told you i always die early, lol.

[emps]

No dont make other mason claim

[emps]

if creeper is legit tracker, we should wait for the other pr to claim.

[teacher]

Nah mate, 1pr for scum is a good trade. 2 PRs for scum is not. (But creeper is scum; and the game is solved. At this point is just a process debate). I think in this game the mechanically right thing to do is have the mason out because of the narrow pools in each case, but I also dont think it matters.

@Menalque, if you wave the nk you could make it a perfect victory, just FYI.

[teacher]

It is safe mechanically to force the second mason to claim than to out the Dr/JK/Neighbor