Newbie 1953 | Zooborns IV | Game Over

[Micc]

As someone who hasn't drunk the Kool-Aid of that particular community, I'm just kinda curious what your perspective is.

I wouldn't drink that kool-aid either.

Site meta is that there's only one way to kill scum and that's to lynch them. The town needs to maximize the number of lynches it makes in a game because that maximizes odds of lynching all the scum. That all starts with lynching someone Day 1. And not just any random person decided by plurality, but someone who the majority of the playerlist thinks is scum. We've got 10 whole days to figure that out by asking questions, analyzing answers and making reads.

I recommend checking out some of the other completed games in the Newbie Queue to get a better idea of the trajectory of games on this site.

[Leucosticte]

I'm also glad to see the effort because my take is that town players are incentivized to make reads and mafia players are not. This leads me to believe you are more likely to be town than someone like chemist who hasn't expressed any reads or shown signs of trying to make reads.

Could also be an indication he's vanilla; a lot of times vanillas take a lackadaisical attitude because they're like, "Whatever, I have nothing to go on, I have no special powers, I'm probably going to be suspected this whole game of being scum unless the cop clears me, and it doesn't even hurt the town much if I get eliminated because that just thins out the group of potential suspects." Meanwhile the cop just naturally wants to take charge because he's like, "I'm going to be the one running the show anyway once I start gathering intel, so I might as well take command now, especially given how important I am (too important to just leave it to someone else, such as scum, to try to take charge, and possibly convince everyone to lynch me)."

Since you try to take charge right away, it makes me think, "Okay, maybe he's the cop" but on the other hand you could also be scum (since they often behave in a cop-like way, wanting to lead the herd as well), so what I'll do is just leave my vote where it is for now and see what info I can gain by watching which way the votes pile up.

On the other hand, a lot of times, like you say, the people who don't say a lot end up being scum, and at any rate I view vanillas as expendable pawns, and don't necessarily want to pressure a cop into claiming on D1, so on second thought, I'll just go ahead and switch my vote over.

UNVOTE: Micc
VOTE: Chemist1422

[Farren]

Last thing we want to do right now is encourage speculation of who the PRs are.

Nobody in this game should think of themselves as an expendable pawn.

[skitter30]

As someone who hasn't drunk the Kool-Aid of that particular community, I'm just kinda curious what your perspective is.

In this game, the only way to remove scum from the game is to lynch them

I view no-lynching as abdicating the ability and responsibility to lynch scum

Leu can be town for now

[skitter30]

Leucosticte: why did you specifically vote for Micc over skitter? Your logic applies to both equally.

The one who votes first to lynch the innocent maybe has more initiative and therefore is more dangerous. Any time you want to dismantle some organization, you want to focus on taking out the leader, because after that, it may just fall apart.

Eh, i think bandwagoning (ie hopping on an already established wagon) can be kinda scummy

[skitter30]

Yeah let's not publically speculate where prs (power roles) may be

VOTE: chemist

[skitter30]

This leads me to believe you are more likely to be town than someone like chemist who hasn't expressed any reads or shown signs of trying to make reads.

Also just saying that i dont inherenrly have a problem with this given when he made his rvs vote

[Chemist1422]

Yeah let's not publically speculate where prs (power roles) may be

VOTE: chemist

This leads me to believe you are more likely to be town than someone like chemist who hasn't expressed any reads or shown signs of trying to make reads.

Also just saying that i dont inherenrly have a problem with this given when he made his rvs vote

Why is the actual basis for scumreading me expressed as a sort of afterthought?

[skitter30]

Well, i dont actually think i said why i thought ur rvs post was scummy, there i was noting that i disagreed with micc

And idk

[Chemist1422]

Well, i dont actually think i said why i thought ur rvs post was scummy, there i was noting that i disagreed with micc

And idk

But right after I posted you said I was scumpinging you?

[skitter30]

welp since the other SEs are doing it I might as well

I found this line scummy

It's not inherently that you didnt really have reads at post 10, but rather because of this like ... appeal to authority that indicates that instead of *trying* to form ur own reads you were just going to sheep other people

Eh maybe that's more similar to what micv said than i thought before, idk

Also the tone is weird

[Leucosticte]

welp since the other SEs are doing it I might as well

I found this line scummy

It's not inherently that you didnt really have reads at post 10, but rather because of this like ... appeal to authority that indicates that instead of *trying* to form ur own reads you were just going to sheep other people

Eh maybe that's more similar to what micv said than i thought before, idk

Also the tone is weird

On the other hand, sometimes townies will think, "If I jump on the bandwagon, then no one can single me out and try to say that I'm more scummy than the rest; I can always just say, 'Well everyone else was voting the same way, so why don't you lynch them, especially since they were first on the bandwagon and all I did was follow'"

[skitter30]

Could be, but that's viewed as a scummy mindset on this site

Case in point: me objecting to how chemist joined ur wagon

[Leucosticte]

In other words, townies might think, "In the interests of not getting mislynched, I need to act in ways that aren't suspicious, such as by jumping on bandwagons rather than taking some stance that no one else is taking, which might be hard to defend by myself (especially since, if people point out why that stance is defensible, others might ask, 'Well then why didn't you take that stance too?' If I go with the bandwagon, then everyone else on that bandwagon has to stick up for me if I'm accused, or else they would be sus too by the same reasoning that I would be sus. So, there's safety in numbers."

[Chemist1422]

In other words, townies might think, "In the interests of not getting mislynched, I need to act in ways that aren't suspicious, such as by jumping on bandwagons rather than taking some stance that no one else is taking, which might be hard to defend by myself (especially since, if people point out why that stance is defensible, others might ask, 'Well then why didn't you take that stance too?' If I go with the bandwagon, then everyone else on that bandwagon has to stick up for me if I'm accused, or else they would be sus too by the same reasoning that I would be sus. So, there's safety in numbers."

why are town specifically more likely to think this than scum?

why are you seemingly defending me while voting me?

[Leucosticte]

why are town specifically more likely to think this than scum?

why are you seemingly defending me while voting me?

The "follow the leader; seek safety in numbers" attitude I'm describing, I consider typical of vanillas. The strategy I'm pursuing right now is to lynch vanilla-seeming players (who could either be real vanillas or scum acting like vanillas; either way, it thins out the potential prime suspects).

Then again, like I was saying earlier, scum can also act like a townie cop; but the potential downside of targeting players with cop behavior is greater. If you lynch a townie cop, not only do you lose that PR, but a scum could then claim that role and not be CC'ed.

[Farren]

The "follow the leader; seek safety in numbers" attitude I'm describing, I consider typical of vanillas. The strategy I'm pursuing right now is to lynch vanilla-seeming players (who could either be real vanillas or scum acting like vanillas; either way, it thins out the potential prime suspects).

Then again, like I was saying earlier, scum can also act like a townie cop; but the potential downside of targeting players with cop behavior is greater. If you lynch a townie cop, not only do you lose that PR, but a scum could then claim that role and not be CC'ed.

If we lynch a PR, they will flip as the PR. If scum want to try to claim a unique role after that role's been lynched, we should cheer them on. And then lynch them.

But, as I was saying earlier - we don't want to actively discuss who is acting like a PR - or, for that matter, who's acting like vanilla. Who's Town, who's scum - that's all that we should be worrying about right now.

[Leucosticte]

If we lynch a PR, they will flip as the PR. If scum want to try to claim a unique role after that role's been lynched, we should cheer them on. And then lynch them.

But, as I was saying earlier - we don't want to actively discuss who is acting like a PR - or, for that matter, who's acting like vanilla. Who's Town, who's scum - that's all that we should be worrying about right now.

Oh, so in this game, if you mislynch, you find out right away? Ah, okay, I've been playing with some different mechanics elsewhere, where you have to have a Gravedigger dig someone up to reveal the role. (However, the Gravedigger often gets NK'ed early in the game, so then you may not find out till the end of the game who was what.)

Wow, that must really be helpful in figuring out more quickly who's scum.

[Farren]

Oh, so in this game, if you mislynch, you find out right away? Ah, okay, I've been playing with some different mechanics elsewhere, where you have to have a Gravedigger dig someone up to reveal the role. (However, the Gravedigger often gets NK'ed early in the game, so then you may not find out till the end of the game who was what.)

Wow, that must really be helpful in figuring out more quickly who's scum.

Given that, how does it change your views on bandwagon accountability? Or does it?

[Leucosticte]

Given that, how does it change your views on bandwagon accountability? Or does it?

I would imagine it increases it quite a bit, because if you have to rely on a Gravedigger, you have all the disadvantages that come with that (such as not knowing whether he's legit, the fact that there's a delay while waiting for him to dig up a grave, the fact that he can only dig up one grave a night, the fact that he can be killed, etc.)

[Farren]

On the other hand, a lot of times, like you say, the people who don't say a lot end up being scum, and at any rate I view vanillas as expendable pawns, and don't necessarily want to pressure a cop into claiming on D1, so on second thought, I'll just go ahead and switch my vote over.

UNVOTE: Micc
VOTE: Chemist1422

Let's try it this way: why do you view VTs as expendable pawns?

[Leucosticte]

Let's try it this way: why do you view VTs as expendable pawns?

For now I'm going to take back my earlier comment until I get more of a feel for the mechanics of this version of Mafia and how they affect gameplay.

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.01

Baby pygmy marmosets

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Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Chemist1422

(3): Micc, Leucosticte, skitter30

Micc

(1): Farren

Leucosticte

(1): Chemist1422

Not Voting

(4): Mr Oobsy, mmiscrazy12, Dyrenz, Jamelia

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-09-04 23:00:00).

Mod notes:

mmiscrazy12 has another (expired on 2019-08-26 15:15:00) to remember mafiascum exists before I start looking for a replacement.[/area]

[Leucosticte]

UNVOTE: Chemist1422
VOTE: Mr Oobsy

Mr Oobsy is being quiet.. almost TOO quiet

[Dyrenz]

Hello all, 2nd game here since rejoining the site. Played once a few years back and didn't quite enjoy it back then. Glad to be back now though, thoroughly enjoyed my first game and excited to play more.

VOTE: Jamelia for also being too quiet