Detective Penguin & City of Fogport [Game Over]

[Day One Wagon]

Jingle, what you think about

I'm unable to fullclaim, but my role is confirmed town upon certain conditions.

[Kagami]

@FakeGod: Please prod Croag

[Bingle]

I don't understand why you think my don't target anyone in my neighborhood post for any reason has anything to do with my status as a miller. (Hint: It doesn't. There's more roles that target than just cop and none of them should target us.)

I have not hidden this at all.

Marquis has not confirmed actual miller status, and it’s fairly reasonable to think that miller is shorthand for negative utility if targeted. Therefore, the logic would be that anyone voting marquis on the basis of miller that can’t be targeted would be more suspicious of the guy who outright claimed miller who can’t be targeted. Which is, in itself suspicious.

Additionally, I feel like marquis is just one face in a crowd of “Should be doing more reads” (including me!) and is catching a lot of flak over that. Which is suspicious.

Additionally, no one who is suspicious of marquis has even mentioned my reason to scumread him, suggesting to me that they don’t care about reading him, which is suspicious.

Teal deer: Marquis is scummy. The wagon on marquis is scummy. These stances are not conflicting at all.

[Bingle]

Jingle, what you think about

I'm unable to fullclaim, but my role is confirmed town upon certain conditions.

I have a guess as to what it could be and will probably grill him in the pt if we’re both alive to do so come night phase. If I’m right, it resolves a lot of my worries surrounding his play.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Kagami

[Kagami]

Don't be a goofy-gus, pops.

[Day One Wagon]

I don't understand why you think my don't target anyone in my neighborhood post for any reason has anything to do with my status as a miller. (Hint: It doesn't. There's more roles that target than just cop and none of them should target us.)

I have not hidden this at all.

Marquis has not confirmed actual miller status, and it’s fairly reasonable to think that miller is shorthand for negative utility if targeted. Therefore, the logic would be that anyone voting marquis on the basis of miller that can’t be targeted would be more suspicious of the guy who outright claimed miller who can’t be targeted. Which is, in itself suspicious.

Additionally, I feel like marquis is just one face in a crowd of “Should be doing more reads” (including me!) and is catching a lot of flak over that. Which is suspicious.

Additionally, no one who is suspicious of marquis has even mentioned my reason to scumread him, suggesting to me that they don’t care about reading him, which is suspicious.

Teal deer: Marquis is scummy. The wagon on marquis is scummy. These stances are not conflicting at all.

He stopped being another lurker in the crowd, when he started asking for day end - he didn't pushed anyone there, he just asked for flips. I don't see why flips would be useful, if we don't force associations, VCA would be busted too with forced lynch to end day early.

Is your reason to scumread him is baiting PRs into vanilaizer? Keep in mind that most of us had no idea about your hood ability for long time, so we couldn't take that into consideration and when it was revealed, most people (me included) forgot that Marquis was telling that nothing too bad would happen and we just went forward with what we had without knowing specifics of your hood. I don't like this "mechanical guilt" that surfaced recently and tbh that was a reason for me to change direction. If we kept going with it, we'd end in stalemate, when some people say it's real guilt and others would oppose it with stuff like "don't try outguess mod"

[kuribo]

My guess is there’s some way for scum to redistribute roles at some point, which likely means if we all rush to enforce the best roles use their power idea, scum can then put the best roles in the hands of people who aren’t yet addicted.

That sort of mechanic sounds explicitly bastard to me.

[kuribo]

2. We set forth an arbitrary guideline, such as everyone in portion {set} of the player list can act. Anyone outside that set does not, on pain of being lynched. This is double edged, as it takes away the caffeine if sufficiently large but also has the side effect of wrecking synergy. I lean this option, personally.

Good luck enforcing that with this player list.

4. We play this mountainous. If we want to do this, go ahead and lynch me now because I will be bored and useless the entire time.

Town has an abysmal win rate in mountainous. In fact, the mod of this very game himself mentioned that to me when I was running a setup by him a few days ago. Playing a likely role-madness game as mountainous would be dumb.

6. We claim acting/non acting before N1 and juggle until we hit a desired proportion (probably 9/8). This leads to a fairly early massclaim.

I am absolutely acting tonight and fully expect to die anyway.

[popsofctown]

Spoiler: Caffeine tier list

Messed up by the setup so don't use: Tracker, Watcher, all other motion detection, rolecop, vanilla cop

The risk reward on motion based investigation is too poor until we have a redflip from the ninja neighborhood if we ever do.
Rolecop is hard to adapt into an actual alignment indication in a large theme anyway but it's even harder when the balance spec is contingent on how many scum get to be in kewl neighborhoods instead of unkewl neighborhoods. It's similarly possible someone turns out to be vanilla and it's because 2 goons get to control are particularly useful neighborhood so it's not as much of a clear as it'd usually be.

Too hard to aim for benefit so don't use: Doctor, Bodyguard, Commuter, Enhancer/Motivator, Vanillerizer, activated 1-shot BP, asceticizer, bus driver

These roles have 1/17 chances or maybe 3/17 chances of being targeted in such a way that they are protown, taking into account possible negative consequences of misses. They can to some extent be revisited and considered lategame if the caffeine count is healthy but should still be holstered even if they are unlimited shots because they would definitely also be the roles to holster in the low caffeine count endgame. There is no way to improve the caffeine count by using a protective ability for the first time, even if you target an unaddicted player with it.

Sane cop or Close Enough: Gunsmith, Masonizer, Sane cop, Psychologist, kuribo, Hider or any other weak role provided you've properly crumbed

I would use all of these for their sheer power even with X=1. The only exception would be holstering the weak roles with X=1 or X=2, but I would recommend spamming the weak roles if they are ungated. The death drawback of the weak role always strikes an addicted player, the weak player themselves, but if it catches scum it helps the decaffeinated players win.

Vigs: Vigilante, Town poisoner?, Loverizer

I would use all of these as long as they are at least X=2, holster them all at X=1. While they may seem hard to aim for benefit similar to the protective, there's always at least 4/17 good places to hit and it's actually more like 10/17 when you also consider possibly hitting a player that would have been mislynched. These roles accelerate the pace of the game itself, and thus decrease the length of time the decaffeinated players need to survive.

Self clears: Activated IC, friendly neighbor,

Fruit Vendor no not really don't you goddamn dare

It is better to claim these at L-1 and use them the following night. Don't tell yourself you need multiple nights to land that friendly neighbor shot on surviving town, mafia's a game of percentages to begin with, just live with it.
After the LyLo-1 lynch, assess whether the caffeine count is healthy enough that firing this can improve our odds in LyLo.

Roleblockers: Roleblocker, Jailkeeper

If ungated, these are so busted at playercounts closer to LyLo you should start using them now, treating their eventual use as a foregone conclusion where the doctors don't.
As X-shots, since they are more powerful later you should holster them until later when it is easier to hit the scum designated to perform the kill for the 2 for 1 value, and you also have the additional information about caffeine status, which really tips the scales. An endgame scenario also makes it easier for us to not get concerned about you having a role that is often given to scum. Don't fire night 1 unless you literally or figuratively ungated, like X=4.

[Chandra Nalaar]

VCA would be busted too with forced lynch to end day early.

Please dont start with this it's not good for my blood pressure

[Pine]

Spoiler: Caffeine tier list

Messed up by the setup so don't use: Tracker, Watcher, all other motion detection, rolecop, vanilla cop

The risk reward on motion based investigation is too poor until we have a redflip from the ninja neighborhood if we ever do.
Rolecop is hard to adapt into an actual alignment indication in a large theme anyway but it's even harder when the balance spec is contingent on how many scum get to be in kewl neighborhoods instead of unkewl neighborhoods. It's similarly possible someone turns out to be vanilla and it's because 2 goons get to control are particularly useful neighborhood so it's not as much of a clear as it'd usually be.

Too hard to aim for benefit so don't use: Doctor, Bodyguard, Commuter, Enhancer/Motivator, Vanillerizer, activated 1-shot BP, asceticizer, bus driver

These roles have 1/17 chances or maybe 3/17 chances of being targeted in such a way that they are protown, taking into account possible negative consequences of misses. They can to some extent be revisited and considered lategame if the caffeine count is healthy but should still be holstered even if they are unlimited shots because they would definitely also be the roles to holster in the low caffeine count endgame. There is no way to improve the caffeine count by using a protective ability for the first time, even if you target an unaddicted player with it.

Sane cop or Close Enough: Gunsmith, Masonizer, Sane cop, Psychologist, kuribo, Hider or any other weak role provided you've properly crumbed

I would use all of these for their sheer power even with X=1. The only exception would be holstering the weak roles with X=1 or X=2, but I would recommend spamming the weak roles if they are ungated. The death drawback of the weak role always strikes an addicted player, the weak player themselves, but if it catches scum it helps the decaffeinated players win.

Vigs: Vigilante, Town poisoner?, Loverizer

I would use all of these as long as they are at least X=2, holster them all at X=1. While they may seem hard to aim for benefit similar to the protective, there's always at least 4/17 good places to hit and it's actually more like 10/17 when you also consider possibly hitting a player that would have been mislynched. These roles accelerate the pace of the game itself, and thus decrease the length of time the decaffeinated players need to survive.

Self clears: Activated IC, friendly neighbor,

Fruit Vendor no not really don't you goddamn dare

It is better to claim these at L-1 and use them the following night. Don't tell yourself you need multiple nights to land that friendly neighbor shot on surviving town, mafia's a game of percentages to begin with, just live with it.
After the LyLo-1 lynch, assess whether the caffeine count is healthy enough that firing this can improve our odds in LyLo.

Roleblockers: Roleblocker, Jailkeeper

If ungated, these are so busted at playercounts closer to LyLo you should start using them now, treating their eventual use as a foregone conclusion where the doctors don't.
As X-shots, since they are more powerful later you should holster them until later when it is easier to hit the scum designated to perform the kill for the 2 for 1 value, and you also have the additional information about caffeine status, which really tips the scales. An endgame scenario also makes it easier for us to not get concerned about you having a role that is often given to scum. Don't fire night 1 unless you literally or figuratively ungated, like X=4.

This is Town

[Pine]

Spoiler: Caffeine tier list

Messed up by the setup so don't use: Tracker, Watcher, all other motion detection, rolecop, vanilla cop

The risk reward on motion based investigation is too poor until we have a redflip from the ninja neighborhood if we ever do.
Rolecop is hard to adapt into an actual alignment indication in a large theme anyway but it's even harder when the balance spec is contingent on how many scum get to be in kewl neighborhoods instead of unkewl neighborhoods. It's similarly possible someone turns out to be vanilla and it's because 2 goons get to control are particularly useful neighborhood so it's not as much of a clear as it'd usually be.

Too hard to aim for benefit so don't use: Doctor, Bodyguard, Commuter, Enhancer/Motivator, Vanillerizer, activated 1-shot BP, asceticizer, bus driver

These roles have 1/17 chances or maybe 3/17 chances of being targeted in such a way that they are protown, taking into account possible negative consequences of misses. They can to some extent be revisited and considered lategame if the caffeine count is healthy but should still be holstered even if they are unlimited shots because they would definitely also be the roles to holster in the low caffeine count endgame. There is no way to improve the caffeine count by using a protective ability for the first time, even if you target an unaddicted player with it.

Sane cop or Close Enough: Gunsmith, Masonizer, Sane cop, Psychologist, kuribo, Hider or any other weak role provided you've properly crumbed

I would use all of these for their sheer power even with X=1. The only exception would be holstering the weak roles with X=1 or X=2, but I would recommend spamming the weak roles if they are ungated. The death drawback of the weak role always strikes an addicted player, the weak player themselves, but if it catches scum it helps the decaffeinated players win.

Vigs: Vigilante, Town poisoner?, Loverizer

I would use all of these as long as they are at least X=2, holster them all at X=1. While they may seem hard to aim for benefit similar to the protective, there's always at least 4/17 good places to hit and it's actually more like 10/17 when you also consider possibly hitting a player that would have been mislynched. These roles accelerate the pace of the game itself, and thus decrease the length of time the decaffeinated players need to survive.

Self clears: Activated IC, friendly neighbor,

Fruit Vendor no not really don't you goddamn dare

It is better to claim these at L-1 and use them the following night. Don't tell yourself you need multiple nights to land that friendly neighbor shot on surviving town, mafia's a game of percentages to begin with, just live with it.
After the LyLo-1 lynch, assess whether the caffeine count is healthy enough that firing this can improve our odds in LyLo.

Roleblockers: Roleblocker, Jailkeeper

If ungated, these are so busted at playercounts closer to LyLo you should start using them now, treating their eventual use as a foregone conclusion where the doctors don't.
As X-shots, since they are more powerful later you should holster them until later when it is easier to hit the scum designated to perform the kill for the 2 for 1 value, and you also have the additional information about caffeine status, which really tips the scales. An endgame scenario also makes it easier for us to not get concerned about you having a role that is often given to scum. Don't fire night 1 unless you literally or figuratively ungated, like X=4.

This is Town

*If entirely original. If merely the summation of groupthink that I missed, it’s NAI

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

town!pops wants to mislynch you 50% of the time so far, unfortunately, why is wanting to mislynch you scum indicative for me?

I didn't sense sincerity in your call for it. I feel that you've been trying to test the waters not make a real push. Otherwise, you've avoided talking to/about me so far, even when I poked you right in the eye.

Why didn't you respond to me/chandra regarding my "they" post? You could have said something like "that's not funny".. or you could have (and I expected you to) have a chuckle and explain to her that you know me well enough and it is normal for me to be messing around like that.

Also, give me a case. "Gut feelings" doesn't count. Being "fluffy" by your standards don't count either (you've just finished a game with me and Bingle where we all have been throwing jokes left right and middle, including yourself, so you can;t say you've never seen me like this before .. AS TOWN).

So, go ahead and present a case on me. It doesn't have to be perfect.. but at least make me feel that you sincerely do suspect me with more than "there are X scums in the game over 17 slots, so you are X/17 likely to be one of them" kind of thing.

[Chandra Nalaar]

1034 is a good analysis and I agree with it

@neighbor(s) remind me to make a note in relation to 1034 tonight

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

orfhz is acting townier than her towngame,

Are we going full meta? Fine. Please describe the differences between town!ofrhz and scum!ofrhz to your knowledge. (Hint: I don't have a clue. To me there is none.)

P-edit: Gimme 5 minutes and I'll be back,, erm.. wait.. that's Arnie's line.

[Kagami]

What do you think about 977, ceph?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

because of the scumslip.

Explain that scumslip in as much details as you can, per favore. I must've missed it. (Or maybe point out where you did explain it if you will)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Once someone outed your main your posts started striking me differently, though I think it'd be irresponsible to overrate meta and completely discard my initial vibes about your slot. But counting on my fingers you're the 4th scummiest slot in the game for me so I don't think you should get worked up about that?

Do/did you think my main and my other alt played the same? If not, why would you assume this one should follow either?

[Chandra Nalaar]

What do you think about 977, ceph?

I disagree that scum would necessarily discuss something like that, but agree that voting there right away doesn't seem like a scum move.

If you're getting at something deeper, I am missing it.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Vote Pine

We miss you. Won't you come home?

Is Pine's real name Johnny?

Spoiler:

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I am bad at everything except vig somehow i'm extremely good at vig

I'm betting if you had a vig shot to use right now you'd be shooting a townie.

If you win you get to keep your avi. If you lose though you get to change to Scholarship Student Isis. Whaddayasay?

[popsofctown]

Spoiler: JJD scumcase

as bad as fishs scummy terrible bad scumclaiming vote currently is
i dont really see anything scummy beyond that

I don't see it I think Fish is town especially because hes defneding me who is town against someone voting me who might not be town. Thats town

Why is that town and WKing?

It bothered me you didn't go into a stance here.

Pine [5] - Gorkington, Bingle x4

First confident

mechanical

read: Bingle must be town. I can't imagine scum being given this voting power AND an alternative win con. (I know he said it declined over time, but still.)

I don't reach this conclusion off my role PM, but this conclusion seems reachable off 4 role PMs, so I'm concerned.

Now that I read ..

@

FakeGod

does the player the mafia designates to perform the factional nightkill become addicted to caffeine or is it only nonfactional abilities.

Factional Kill does not count for caffeine addiction.

Hmm. Nevermind the everyone should always holster, I suppose.

Pops, what made you want to ask this question?

i like setups and setup design and mechanics and making things


did you know ZSS has a 1 frame jab in brawl meaning if she had inhuman reactions she could interrupt a move with 2 frames of startup? Which is every move in theg ame except her one frame jab


BUT

brawl is bugged an will input lag an extra fram 50% of the time

but you can interrupt 3 frame+ moves all the time still

which is almost everything

except MArth up b, squirtle jab, um who else has frame 2 jab

I think Sheik has frame 2 jab?


anyway

i'm rly pissed at all of you

i don't think optimal play was to out the miller neighborhoods i think optimal play was to just play mafia.

miller always claims day 1 in normal because when the cop outs with a guilty the mafia guy goes "oh I'm a miller" and then the town goes "WE HAVE NO WAY OF VERIFYING YOU ARE NOT TALKING OUT OF YOUR ASS"

but in this setup
the miller is a neighborhood
literally 1 fucking other player in the neighborhood just says
"yo i can verify that this person is not talking out of their ass"
and you're good
you guys fucked up the game in the first 10 pages
which would be great if i was in scum like in guns n roses 2
but since im not
im mad
because
i argue with fakegod and i still think he is really really dumb for not realizing his dance setups are literally broken in half and i have math for it and it's not hard
but his setups still dont reward stupid self outing
like he does setups that are mafia
that's why i in his games
even this one that is closed
once lil uzi vert outed
but anyway
2 miller neighborhoods is not unheard of
there also might be a "godfather neighborhood" always investigates innocent i specc that
not that it should claim
more powerful roles are going to appear on players that are not confirmable
hypothetical godfather neighborhood do not claim
you ahve a chance
to not be a dumbass

but yes pelican who is maybe maybe not rceenigma but idc because you're being as annoying as him either way
you obviously indirectly claimed the miller neighborhood part of my role pm for this game
and in starcraft mafia it was also not direct it was indirect but it was still bad
but i guess you power mislynched me anyway and you don't lose antyhign
but what if you didn't get your mislynch what then rcenigma/maybe not rcenigma but bearing his sins in a jesuslike fashion
what then
(not mislynch as in rcenigma was scum that game)
(he was town)
(obvtown)
(well at least to the extent that people deadsheeped my opinoinso????_)

anyway
what made me think to ask the question
yeah mechanics and spec
if it their caffeine addition was heavily related to my role pm i would have pmed the question probably maybe
mostly curiosity
but like for everyone even VTS and stuff theres this whole
look
the mafia can decide who does the kill
and manipulate the coutn fakegod posts
that says
"ther are N players alive addcited to caffeine"
and we have to lynch based on that
in guns and roses you tried not to lynch people claiming to prevent us from dying ude to the alt wincon because that'd be bad
cept in lylo maybe? probalby definitely
so in that sense
it thought about it
actually i guess i should call out bingle for rolefishing
but i call everyone out for being bad

WHY DO MILLERS CLAIM DAY 1
GO BACK TO YOUR FUNDAMENTAL AXIOMS BEFORE BLINDLY PERFORMING RITUALS BY ROTE
YOU DIDN'T THINK ABOUT IT
DID YOU
MY MATH PROFESSOR SAID
DON'T LOOK TO BOOKS AND LET YOUR MIND FREE TO THINK
IT IS BEAUTIFUL
YOU ARE ALL UGLY
YES THERE IS PROBABLY 1-2 SCUM IN THE SIX MILLERS BUT WHATEVER
you can jsut push them in thread
when they make a scummy post
like any other player
you don't ahve to say
"hey scum
dont shoot these players
they're unplayable
i dont share your alignment
but im helping u
because it pisses pops off
"
thank you for listening to my love poems
this has been drunkpops

I have but only one reaction in mind:

Vote pops for president

Disclaimer: It's not that I like it. It's that it's basically another Microsoft document that goes on and on and on about the whole thing, but basically tells you nothing, It's a political speech, not a game post.

This reads an awful lot like trying to undermine people for townreading me *in-advance*. So when I'm the wagon you want to push later, I'm all the more concerned. And you aren't deathtunneling me to the point where I would actually believe you'd get concerned that pops is 99% scum and all townreads of pops feed your deepwolfpops loss condition. It's reminiscent of how RC caught wgeurts in Old Newbies.

pops is also she btw

She or he are both o.k. Just hate they

This is important: use he or she when referring to pops as they hate being referred to as they.

You hadn't outed yourself as an alt yet, so I'm not sure how I would have responded to this if you had. I still might not have responded though, it generally takes actual effort to mispronoun someone once you've become aware of a preference, so I didn't feel I needed to be concerned about it being a continued issue. Nero Cain made an almost identical post in Not_known 15's large normal and I also ignored him there.
As a stranger I thought you could potentially launch a gamelong campaign to use the pronoun that agitates me, and the best strategy for minimizing the probability of that would be to ignore you until you're too forgetful to use a different one from whatever the last poster used instead of drawing attention to it.

[popsofctown]

I am bad at everything except vig somehow i'm extremely good at vig

I'm betting if you had a vig shot to use right now you'd be shooting a townie.

If you win you get to keep your avi. If you lose though you get to change to Scholarship Student Isis. Whaddayasay?

I wholeheartedly accept

[Chandra Nalaar]

is that even allowed