Detective Penguin & City of Fogport [Game Over]

[Kagami]

Somehow I've never managed to get in a political discussion during a game of mafia.

Kagami, what is your opinion of the 1889 Act to Regulate Appointments in the Marine Hospital Service of the United States?

I like sea creatures and support attempts to provide them proper medical care.

[kuribo]

It potentially costs multiple caffeinations.

I'll save the trouble and explicitly request no protection.

[Bingle]

If there's a Doc, which seems pretty likely, that already does a lot to make it very difficult to effect a caffeine endgame.

Lowkey, there's a decent chance that the caffeine endgame is a red herring to fuck with town. OTOH, if the game is all about MASSIVELY POWERFUL TOWN! and MASSIVELY POWERFUL SCUM COUNTERS! which seems likely at this point, then your strategy will likely be the same as gamble on scum not having a hard counter to my hood, because the amount of town power will be overwhelming but scum will have answers.

[Bingle]

I'd put odds at 70:30 caffeine matters:caffeine distraction, btw.

[Kagami]

Meh, you might be right, idk. I don't really think it's going to work like that unless even the multivoters have caffeine abilities and choose to use them.

If the scum has to somehow gun down a bunch of multivoting commuters and whatever while real town power gets free reign, that seems ok with me.

I think FG learned a very hard lesson from the crazy touhou UPick setup that bears some resemblance to this one, so I don't expect there to be a crazy powerful scum team.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Is AP angryPidgeon?

No. It's AP, The International Man of Mystery.

Almost50 is the Big Heart persona
Judge Joseph Dredd is the Big Ego persona
AP is the Big.. ahem.. I'll let you figure that one out on your own

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

You are so proud of how distinctly your alts play so why does it surprise you I didn't know who you were. No one told me

Because it's public knowledge. It's like Boonskiies is Flavor Leaf, and Jingle is Bingle, so I assumed you knew.. now I stand corrected.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Uh. I didn't. And I interact with A50 a lot. Like, a lot a lot.

You too? What next?? FL didn't know???

[popsofctown]

If Judge Joseph Dredd wins as a bastard role

My role isn't bastard. In fact it aligns with the Normal Roles Guidelines.

Beautiful and intelligent scholarship student isis has slightly different art and weaker powers.
So the joke is I have to make the avatar bet impossible to win

[Perry Pelican]

How the fuck do you have a miller that's a reflexive roleblocking vanillaizer

A roleblocking vanillaizer makes a miller modifier moot since no one can get an investigation result on them anyway

It’s kinda like that was exactly what I said when I claimed. My guess is there’s some way for scum to redistribute roles at some point, which likely means if we all rush to enforce the best roles use their power idea, scum can then put the best roles in the hands of people who aren’t yet addicted.

On the topic of caffeine:


There are several options: 1. We leave it alone. Everyone makes their own decision about acting/not acting and we hope there aren’t sufficient tempting night actions to fuck us.

2. We set forth an arbitrary guideline, such as everyone in portion {set} of the player list can act. Anyone outside that set does not, on pain of being lynched. This is double edged, as it takes away the caffeine if sufficiently large but also has the side effect of wrecking synergy. I lean this option, personally.

3. D1 massclaim. This setup has a few of the hallmarks of being a broken by massclaim setup. I’m very reluctant to do this though, as FG has a history of hating massclaim setups and punishing towns for trying to abuse them.

4. We play this mountainous. If we want to do this, go ahead and lynch me now because I will be bored and useless the entire time.

5. I make a list of the roles that are worth using, and only people with those roles act tonight. This is probably a good plan, but I don’t know that I’ll have the free time to come up with a reasonably comprehensive list.

6. We claim acting/non acting before N1 and juggle until we hit a desired proportion (probably 9/8). This leads to a fairly early massclaim.

7. We gamble, hard. Barring any weird shenanigans if our neighborhood is a masonry, we’re functionally unkillable barring scum having some kind of strong willed anti vanillaizer role. If it’s just strong willed, the first one of us they shoot gets rid of the power that lets them shoot us. If that’s the case, two of the three of us can be caffeine free for life. Of course, if the neighborhood contains scum or scum has multiple workarounds, we might be fucked, royally, by this plan.

Again, I endorse option 2 and would be happy to pick nine names who can act tonight, if we agree that that is what our plan is and that no one will claim because they’re mad they don’t get to use their super badass power.

D2, any member of {acting} who didn’t act can be replaced. This should eliminate the worry of a caffeine victory even if mafia has some way of addicting people to caffeine forcibly.

Off to make all of my muscles sore again.

1. There probably will be.

2. This is what I was getting at. I hadn't thought of role redistribution, I thought you were getting at some way to nullify active or non active abilities when you said you didn't want to get into it. We can't really police unclaimed roles and this only works for the subset of roles that are known. Grouping it by players instead of roles is kind of ehhh. It opens up the possibility we chain no action nights and caffeine doesn't affect scum at all.

3 and 4. Meh. Not a fan of mountainous.

5. I don't know who else is good with setup spec but I'm sure people are willing to help with this.

[Kagami]

I am probably the player who is best qualified to read FG's mind regarding setup construction, and I suspect that the setup is designed to be roughly balanced regardless of how town uses caffeine addiction.

FG does not believe Towns on this site are competent to create a cohesive plan and stick to it, even when such a plan is potentially gamebreaking.

FG does not believe Towns on this site are capable of effectively hiding non-private information from scum. He has designed this game with the assumption that all neighborhood powers and constituencies are fully known to the scum by the end of Day 1.

[Chandra Nalaar]

He's right, and that's really a shame.

[Kagami]

At the end of the day, it's a good thing.

If we do a better job than terrible at keeping some town info to ourselves, then the game somewhat leans in our favor.

[Flavor Leaf]

I knew about AP, and I put together JJD after Overkill 2.

[popsofctown]

Vig is a beautiful role. It directly fulfills the town win condition when you aim at scums and they die.

The cowardice in this thread is appalling

[Perry Pelican]

Vigs: Vigilante, Town poisoner?, Loverizer
I would use all of these as long as they are at least X=2,

I wish Mastina was on this game to fry you over this. Vigs should never shoot (according to her), and more so on N1. Unless we have an explicit guilty situation (like, say.. 2 investigatives came back with guilties on D2, so one guilty was lynched and the other left alive .. only then should the Vig make their shot).

I'm a strong proponent that vig should only shoot in situations that town would lose majority otherwise. The exception being a high info kill that eliminates a 50/50.

[popsofctown]

If the mafia roleblocked the vig when said vig announced they were shooting Who, doesn't that strongly imply Who is scum?

Isn't that the wine in front?

No, I already explained why it's proscum to block the shot even if it's on town, so long as the town is sufficiently lynchbaity.

Jingle thinks vigs are protown, at least when you ask the exact same question differently in a different game

[Chandra Nalaar]

vigs just need to shoot consensus targets and not their own vanity reads, plus know when to stop shooting

[Perry Pelican]

Uh. I didn't. And I interact with A50 a lot. Like, a lot a lot.

You too? What next?? FL didn't know???

I didn't know. And I feel I read A50 decently well.

[Perry Pelican]

vigs just need to shoot consensus targets and not their own vanity reads, plus know when to stop shooting

This is really meh and falls into the trap of being led by the gamestate instead of shaping it.

[Kagami]

Perry, if I had the lovely power to day-nuke all of

{Fish, D1L, JJD, Flavor, pops},

but you had the power to intervene and replace any of them with players from

{PenguinPower, Vecna, Gorkington, kuribo, Chandra, Pine},

which replacements would you make?

[Perry Pelican]

I don't really like the nuke list. So maybe nuke the bottom list but switch Chandra with jjd.

[popsofctown]

What I'm getting at is that Miller can be a role or a modifier, and the reason I was asking was because it's useful to know what all these millers have been told in their neighborhood and do you understand what I'm saying or do I have to dumb it down?

I'll give you an example: there's a huge difference between "everyone in this neighborhood is a Ninja" and "everyone in this neighborhood has the ninja modifier."

I'll let Perry answer this

What I'm getting at is that Miller can be a role or a modifier, and the reason I was asking was because it's useful to know what all these millers have been told in their neighborhood and do you understand what I'm saying or do I have to dumb it down?

I'll give you an example: there's a huge difference between "everyone in this neighborhood is a Ninja" and "everyone in this neighborhood has the ninja modifier."

I'll let Perry answer this

Nope I'm good.

JJD asked about the slip, this is where Pelipper is outed as scum.
We are informed in our role PM that everyone in our neighborhood investigates as scum. We are not informed the reason each individual in our neighborhood investigates as scum, just that we all do.

Kuribo asked whether we each have a modifier on our roles giving us the "investigates as scum" quality, or whether we don't. In the latter case the entire neighborhood would be composed of mafia and millers, since miller is the only role that doesn't need a modifier to investigate as mafia.

Pelipper declines to answer the question and incriminate himself. If Flavor Leaf and I are both simply Millers, then it will sound fishy if he claims he is a vig with a "checks as scum" modifier or a doctor with a "checks as scum" modifier or etc. If Flavor Leaf and I are vigs/doctors/cops etc with the "checks as scum" modifier, it will sound suspicious if he claims he doesn't have a modifier. (it's actually not that suspicious if he's a miller, but he really missed the timing on his shot for claiming miller.)

In reality, I do have a modifier. The modifier is integral to my identity as my furriness and it applies even if I leave the neighborhood.

[Perry Pelican]

Wary of FL but feel I can read him if I effort, haven't decided on efforting yet. Fish and pops fall on the town side today. Ram is just town here, LNT is a good indicator of his town game and he's counterpushing in much the same way that makes you want to WK for him since he's going to ruffle feathers.

[popsofctown]

vigs just need to shoot consensus targets and not their own vanity reads, plus know when to stop shooting

I agree on an intellectual level and plan to immediately adopt this approach after completing my first vig game where my vanity reads were not mysteriously incredible.