Newbie 1951 (Day 4)

[teacher]

You think I tell my scum partner to claim tracker after seeing mason claims and knowing I can sell a vt claim as town-motivated rather than outing PRs enough to shift the wagon?

Why do you make 910 if your pick up on the mason claims was as good as the time as you're now suggesting it was? Why were you hunting PRs so hard in the first place? Why, if you were TRing me, do you immediately backpedal onto me in 923 esp when you know I wasn't around at that point bc I'd specifically talked about when I'd be active earlier on in thread?

Also I don't know what your question means entirely.

1. Because my mason read (which I outed in 458) was spam-sushi
2. Because all players should. Town needs to avoid making PRs universal townreads.
3. I never townread you. I scum read you most of the game until Fark went on you. It was his hounded that made you default town. You were town by others, not by yourself.
4. As I said yesterday, I didn’t see your 5pm thing (as you can tell by my posts calling on you after it). In any event, I went to you because of the unvote and associations w creep after having fark’s jointer conclusively proved to have come from town.

[teacher]

My question means that, if I were partnered with creeper and thought I knew who the masons were (and certainly knew masons were in the game), that I would tel creep to claim VT in the scumchat, then immediately ride to his defense in the main thread saying act claim is likely town/scum would want to put a or on their way down. I’ve made that argument often enough as town that I’d be less worried about associatices that overall game odds. 5:2 with associations is a lot better than 6:1 without.

[Menalque]

same prob goes for skitt, but I can at least see her potentially deciding to bus once creeper seemed to be going down, and having enough confidence in her scum game to try and ride this out to the win

Skitts town. Scum!her doesnt whiteknight Fark who was obviously either PR or scum. She lets PR go down. Im just pissed that I was confident enough in my PR reads elsehwere that I went to scum, because her case was good.

Emps is also towncleared by intenting creep in 773 as well as creep horrible “reaction test” (not to mention skits read)
Skit is by wagon presence, reads of emps me and sushi - too many hard commitments to be scum liking to compbus D1, and likely to better advise

Pool = mena, me, sushi, selynee

As long as you all don’t lynch sushi I’m fine w whatever order you want.

Ok, you’ve made skit your obvious second pick. Why am I wrong in these posts. Because what I’m having difficulty with is your wagon (NMSA, skit, me, Fark) being all town and you being town, but then I see these on the other side.

798 didn’t do it for me - I thought your selfmeta was icky too.

I think that trying to predict what skitt does or doesn't do as scum or town on D1 at that point is debatable at best and foolhardy at worst. I just absolutely don't think it's AI. do I think it's scummy? not really. do I think it's outside her range? absolutely not. I can see scum her doing it for the towncred of the logic you're using and then just using the early NKs to resolve the problem.

I don't think emps is towncleared really? you can intent without planning to follow through, and I still think there's just been something a bit off there all game. his pushes have felt overdone or not genuine, and while I mostly think I've been misreading that because I think there is scum in (you, skitt)

and, again, to anyone in doubt, I still think it's teacher -- don't let him argue that I was "coming around to a TR on his slot by end of D2" if he tries to pull that tomorrow. he should still be the lynch

[Menalque]

you know I'm happy to engage even when people are scum

if you're town then why did you avoid engaging me at all in a way that was likely to get me TR, possibly get me to TR you, and steer clear of a possible mislynch until after I was dead at which point one major danger is eliminated from play and from engaging in the dialogue with me you may score some town points too

I have no idea what this means. I engaged w you the same way I did all players.

not in late day, you didn't. you fixated on my skitt progression and demanded a case, and were tantamount to saying that not producing one was a scum claim (which, as evidenced by today, was clearly wrong). emps ran with that, and was voting me at least in part of the back of it.

what you're doing now is engaging. you're moving around on various topics, you're asking questions to get things going. if you'd done this yesterday then potentially my mislynch might have been avoided. but you chose to save doing that until twilight, which is scum!indicative

[teacher]

So you think it’s almost certainly the very experienced players (me, skit, emps) not the ones with total lack (Selene, sushi) that lent creeper limp on like he did all game?

That’s my issue. I have a TR on sushi. I’ve accepted that I’m the mislynch for tomorrow when you will eat crow. I’m trying to help town for D4 in picking btw emps, skit, and selynee. I think I would encourage them to go seleynee. Either live with that advise or convince me why I’m wrong.

[teacher]

you know I'm happy to engage even when people are scum

if you're town then why did you avoid engaging me at all in a way that was likely to get me TR, possibly get me to TR you, and steer clear of a possible mislynch until after I was dead at which point one major danger is eliminated from play and from engaging in the dialogue with me you may score some town points too

I have no idea what this means. I engaged w you the same way I did all players.

not in late day, you didn't. you fixated on my skitt progression and demanded a case, and were tantamount to saying that not producing one was a scum claim (which, as evidenced by today, was clearly wrong). emps ran with that, and was voting me at least in part of the back of it.

what you're doing now is engaging. you're moving around on various topics, you're asking questions to get things going. if you'd done this yesterday then potentially my mislynch might have been avoided. but you chose to save doing that until twilight, which is scum!indicative

I’m responding to your messages as they come in. What you’re faulting me for is less that 20 hours of a D1 that lasted 7 days. I did ask for a Skitter case because I didn’t get yours. Even now - after reviewing what you referred to - I don’t. I just see bad town (like your read on me). I think once your dead and off the emotional rollercoaster, you will reread my posts on creep and realize that I got that lynch (on scum) while you got the lynch on me (town). I didn’t direct your lynch, that was bord consensus as the player who had been scummy and had associatives. Sure, I thought it, but I wasn’t driving the wagon in the same way I did on creep.

[Menalque]

You think I tell my scum partner to claim tracker after seeing mason claims and knowing I can sell a vt claim as town-motivated rather than outing PRs enough to shift the wagon?

Why do you make 910 if your pick up on the mason claims was as good as the time as you're now suggesting it was? Why were you hunting PRs so hard in the first place? Why, if you were TRing me, do you immediately backpedal onto me in 923 esp when you know I wasn't around at that point bc I'd specifically talked about when I'd be active earlier on in thread?

Also I don't know what your question means entirely.

1. Because my mason read (which I outed in 458) was spam-sushi
2. Because all players should. Town needs to avoid making PRs universal townreads.
3. I never townread you. I scum read you most of the game until Fark went on you. It was his hounded that made you default town. You were town by others, not by yourself.
4. As I said yesterday, I didn’t see your 5pm thing (as you can tell by my posts calling on you after it). In any event, I went to you because of the unvote and associations w creep after having fark’s jointer conclusively proved to have come from town.

(1) right, so my point is that should mean that you already knew it was NMSA right? so why push to out as town if you already p much knew from your perspective
(2) this is reasonable, but I will say at least in my experience I hunt harder for PRs when scum than as town, but maybe that's because like in fusion I get PR read without meaning to at times
(3) also reasonable
(4) unless you were faking it and hoping day would end before I got back so I could be properly set up for the mislynch D2 (which I was anyway, but would have been even worse if I couldn't have talked). plus, again, me unvoting creeper is what makes me town from your POV at that point, or should have if you were town. bc scum!me knows the implications of doing that, and would see the bus through. it's only town me who'd take the chance of hopping off knowing that people might initially see it as scummy but assuming/hoping they'd look beyond the surface level to see how it actually shows me as town

[Selynee]

Hey, that's not very nice. I am horrible of this game but I'd have at least told EC not to claim that was a reaction test out of all people on his townlean. Or at least I wouldn't ask about it.

[Menalque]

You think I tell my scum partner to claim tracker after seeing mason claims and knowing I can sell a vt claim as town-motivated rather than outing PRs enough to shift the wagon?

Why do you make 910 if your pick up on the mason claims was as good as the time as you're now suggesting it was? Why were you hunting PRs so hard in the first place? Why, if you were TRing me, do you immediately backpedal onto me in 923 esp when you know I wasn't around at that point bc I'd specifically talked about when I'd be active earlier on in thread?

Also I don't know what your question means entirely.

1. Because my mason read (which I outed in 458) was spam-sushi
2. Because all players should. Town needs to avoid making PRs universal townreads.
3. I never townread you. I scum read you most of the game until Fark went on you. It was his hounded that made you default town. You were town by others, not by yourself.
4. As I said yesterday, I didn’t see your 5pm thing (as you can tell by my posts calling on you after it). In any event, I went to you because of the unvote and associations w creep after having fark’s jointer conclusively proved to have come from town.

you know I'm happy to engage even when people are scum

if you're town then why did you avoid engaging me at all in a way that was likely to get me TR, possibly get me to TR you, and steer clear of a possible mislynch until after I was dead at which point one major danger is eliminated from play and from engaging in the dialogue with me you may score some town points too

I have no idea what this means. I engaged w you the same way I did all players.

not in late day, you didn't. you fixated on my skitt progression and demanded a case, and were tantamount to saying that not producing one was a scum claim (which, as evidenced by today, was clearly wrong). emps ran with that, and was voting me at least in part of the back of it.

what you're doing now is engaging. you're moving around on various topics, you're asking questions to get things going. if you'd done this yesterday then potentially my mislynch might have been avoided. but you chose to save doing that until twilight, which is scum!indicative

I’m responding to your messages as they come in. What you’re faulting me for is less that 20 hours of a D1 that lasted 7 days. I did ask for a Skitter case because I didn’t get yours. Even now - after reviewing what you referred to - I don’t. I just see bad town (like your read on me). I think once your dead and off the emotional rollercoaster, you will reread my posts on creep and realize that I got that lynch (on scum) while you got the lynch on me (town). I didn’t direct your lynch, that was bord consensus as the player who had been scummy and had associatives. Sure, I thought it, but I wasn’t driving the wagon in the same way I did on creep.

I don't think you did drive it on creep. I think that was nmsa and I think I helped when I pointed out how bad his ISO was, I just retraced my thoughts and found skitt to be scummier and realised I was letting her off the hook for bad reasons. creeper never moved out of my scum reads, and if I hadn't been able to get skitt then I would have hammered there.

also, the amount of time means nothing, it's all about what the broad implications are. if those were the most important 20 hrs then it's still a perfectly good reason to SR someone. like, I was TRing you up until your late day play on D1 which was so strong that I went from having you in my townleans to my hardest scum read in like an evening. less than an entire evening. and I don't think I am gonna realise that, because I still think you're scum who's trying your best to set up a good frame going into tomorrow so you have the best possible chance of avoiding being lynched

also, hatcheting. my reads have generally been quite good as town (which I am here). it's not unreasonable from my POV to be trusting in them. hell, even this game I to got creeper scum, I just moved off it to go for skitt bc at the time I thought she was scummier

[Menalque]

Hey, that's not very nice. I am horrible of this game but I'd have at least told EC not to claim that was a reaction test out of all people on his townlean. Or at least I wouldn't ask about it.

who and what is this in reference to?

[teacher]

1. No. Either spam or sushi. That’s why I said I had it narrowed to two.

Pedit: I think me saying lack of experience limp along.

[teacher]

@mena - Do you think selynee should go after me or skit? And why?

[Selynee]

So you think it’s almost certainly the very experienced players (me, skit, emps) not the ones with total lack (Selene, sushi) that lent creeper limp on like he did all game?

That’s my issue. I have a TR on sushi. I’ve accepted that I’m the mislynch for tomorrow when you will eat crow. I’m trying to help town for D4 in picking btw emps, skit, and selynee. I think I would encourage them to go seleynee. Either live with that advise or convince me why I’m wrong.

Like I can understand me- inactive, EC does badly. Plus me-mafia would have been even worse. But, pride- I am not that stupid to start asking my partner to detail his pretty obvious fake reaction test...or let him claim reaction test there if I could stop him.

[Menalque]

so if you think that it was sushi where was her crumb? bc my impression of that is that if you did have a PR masons read there (which is weirdly specific for town) then it was from NMSA crumbing and that sushi was based on their interactions

[Menalque]

@mena - Do you think selynee should go after me or skit? And why?

I think sely is prob!town tbh

I thought her read on creeper was independent, came early and didn't move off I don't think (so I don't think it was distancing, partly bc I think it was done really well if it was, so kudos if it was)

also, just how she's been engaging with me. not acting as if she knows I'm town, I don't think, but also open to seeing me/engaging with me in a way that I don't think comes from scum. I think scum knows that the mislynch train on me was strong enough to just hop on board it knowing that it would be hard to distinguish them from the town that would inevitably be on the mislynch train

[teacher]

your POV at that point, or should have if you were town. bc scum!me knows the implications of doing that, and would see the bus through. it's only town me who'd take the chance of hopping off knowing that people might initially see it as scummy but assuming/hoping they'd look beyond the surface level to see how it actually shows me as town

Then why did at least three town (Fark, emps, skit, me has to include that many) miss it? Oh right, because it’s not obvious, much though it seems that way to you. Like I said, I’d creep was my partner I would have gotten off (though after a by claim). It’s just better odds for scum to accept the associatives and not bus D1. See any number of callforjudgment discussion posts on that.

[teacher]

so if you think that it was sushi where was her crumb? bc my impression of that is that if you did have a PR masons read there (which is weirdly specific for town) then it was from NMSA crumbing and that sushi was based on their interactions

30/32 is what made me think they were the pair. 32 was oddly specific stating there were masons in this game. That was her crumb.

[Menalque]

your POV at that point, or should have if you were town. bc scum!me knows the implications of doing that, and would see the bus through. it's only town me who'd take the chance of hopping off knowing that people might initially see it as scummy but assuming/hoping they'd look beyond the surface level to see how it actually shows me as town

Then why did at least three town (Fark, emps, skit, me has to include that many) miss it? Oh right, because it’s not obvious, much though it seems that way to you. Like I said, I’d creep was my partner I would have gotten off (though after a by claim). It’s just better odds for scum to accept the associatives and not bus D1. See any number of callforjudgment discussion posts on that.

because they're not thinking about it apparently? like, I don't see how after playing against me as scum you can think that I wouldn't bus there after creeper was going down. like, why does scum me bring focus to him by saying that his ISO is terrible and then voting him... only to hop off at the last minute? either I'd see the bus through, drawing attention to him and staying all the way out... or I'd avoid drawing attention to him in the first place and steer the lynch elsewhere while coaching him in the PT

I can only assume that town wasn't thinking bc I think that anyone familiar with my scum game/me generally shouldn't think I'd be that careless. like, would I maybe do something WIFOMy like that as scum? maybe. but that's different to how superficial all the reasons for SRing me were, and I would've expected this town to go beyond superficial reasoning

[teacher]

K. Which one of emps, skit, and sushi would you pick as scum?

I have to reread sushi myself, but I’m definitely making tomorrow so have time.

You kept talking about how you would change your acumstyle up. And you were definitely off townmeta in my experience, but I get that means you evolved as a player like you said.

[Menalque]

so if you think that it was sushi where was her crumb? bc my impression of that is that if you did have a PR masons read there (which is weirdly specific for town) then it was from NMSA crumbing and that sushi was based on their interactions

30/32 is what made me think they were the pair. 32 was oddly specific stating there were masons in this game. That was her crumb.

okay, even if you thought either of them had crumbed and could have been the other... where's the town motivation to out there? assuming they would crumb, and fark said they did, would it not have been better to let creeper go down, have the 1 conf mason killed, but maybe have had the other one survive N2 than encourage an out guaranteeing their death

[teacher]

so if you think that it was sushi where was her crumb? bc my impression of that is that if you did have a PR masons read there (which is weirdly specific for town) then it was from NMSA crumbing and that sushi was based on their interactions

30/32 is what made me think they were the pair. 32 was oddly specific stating there were masons in this game. That was her crumb.

okay, even if you thought either of them had crumbed and could have been the other... where's the town motivation to out there? assuming they would crumb, and fark said they did, would it not have been better to let creeper go down, have the 1 conf mason killed, but maybe have had the other one survive N2 than encourage an out guaranteeing their death

I made very clear that it didn’t make a difference to me whether they outed or not, but asking for a protective to out (in the world where creeper is town) makes no sense. I didn’t ask for them to out. I explained why I thought it made little difference, and I was voting creep anyways. All of that was just explaining to emps why he was wrong in what he was saying.

[Menalque]

I'd prob lynch skitt there

maybe emps

I went through a thing of trying to play differently on purpose, but this is just how I play now that I'm more comfortable on site. I think I do tend to get SR but then I also think I tend to obv!town once I'm efforting a game, so that's why I was complacent here. I think I pay much more attention to my narrative when scum, which is why I still think town should have read my hopping around and changing it up as town. I'd struggle a lot more to do that naturally as scum, and I don't think my scum game is there yet.

I still think teacher is scum everyone, friendly neighbourhood reminder to lynch him tomorrow

[emps]

hi hello im here and alive ill read stuff now

[emps]

actually yeah I'll do this myself, VOTE: menalque

I'm town, lynch teacher tomorrow, if green flip vote skitt in lylo, if they're both town remember that I told you all not to mislynch me so we could do those two first

k thx bye

uhhhhhh

u fr?

[emps]

You think I ever let my scum partner not get an avi?

yeah everylne knows that noavis are always scum