Detective Penguin & City of Fogport [Game Over]

[Perry Pelican]

What I'm getting at is that Miller can be a role or a modifier, and the reason I was asking was because it's useful to know what all these millers have been told in their neighborhood and do you understand what I'm saying or do I have to dumb it down?

I'll give you an example: there's a huge difference between "everyone in this neighborhood is a Ninja" and "everyone in this neighborhood has the ninja modifier."

I'll let Perry answer this

What I'm getting at is that Miller can be a role or a modifier, and the reason I was asking was because it's useful to know what all these millers have been told in their neighborhood and do you understand what I'm saying or do I have to dumb it down?

I'll give you an example: there's a huge difference between "everyone in this neighborhood is a Ninja" and "everyone in this neighborhood has the ninja modifier."

I'll let Perry answer this

Nope I'm good.

JJD asked about the slip, this is where Pelipper is outed as scum.
We are informed in our role PM that everyone in our neighborhood investigates as scum. We are not informed the reason each individual in our neighborhood investigates as scum, just that we all do.

Kuribo asked whether we each have a modifier on our roles giving us the "investigates as scum" quality, or whether we don't. In the latter case the entire neighborhood would be composed of mafia and millers, since miller is the only role that doesn't need a modifier to investigate as mafia.

Pelipper declines to answer the question and incriminate himself. If Flavor Leaf and I are both simply Millers, then it will sound fishy if he claims he is a vig with a "checks as scum" modifier or a doctor with a "checks as scum" modifier or etc. If Flavor Leaf and I are vigs/doctors/cops etc with the "checks as scum" modifier, it will sound suspicious if he claims he doesn't have a modifier. (it's actually not that suspicious if he's a miller, but he really missed the timing on his shot for claiming miller.)

In reality, I do have a modifier. The modifier is integral to my identity as my furriness and it applies even if I leave the neighborhood.

Except it also states it explicitly in the neighborhood pt. I don't know what the last line is about, I didn't know leaving neighborhoods was a thing?

[Kagami]

I don't really like the nuke list. So maybe nuke the bottom list but switch Chandra with jjd.

Holy smokes.

Assuming you're town, one of us has absolutely awful reads.

If it turns out to be me, I will fully admit to my error post-game, but I expect the same courtesy from you if it's the opposite.

[Vecna]

So is there maybe a neighborhood composed entirely of Strong Loyal people? I guess????

Their roles would not work on the Miller Vanillerizers but would work on the "investigates as mafia" people.

maybe a disloyal strong mafia ability, and we just screwed the pooch?

I have no idea if that even works or is even a thing, but its too rediculous to even put in a setup regardless

[Perry Pelican]

Like, pops I can tell you why you're dead wrong but I'd have to out more information to do so and I know how find you are of unprompted claims.

[Kagami]

Isn't JJD light town as of 967?

[Perry Pelican]

I don't really like the nuke list. So maybe nuke the bottom list but switch Chandra with jjd.

Holy smokes.

Assuming you're town, one of us has absolutely awful reads.

If it turns out to be me, I will fully admit to my error post-game, but I expect the same courtesy from you if it's the opposite.

Of course. But I don't think we are the same alignment, as told by my vote.

[popsofctown]

What I'm getting at is that Miller can be a role or a modifier, and the reason I was asking was because it's useful to know what all these millers have been told in their neighborhood and do you understand what I'm saying or do I have to dumb it down?

I'll give you an example: there's a huge difference between "everyone in this neighborhood is a Ninja" and "everyone in this neighborhood has the ninja modifier."

I'll let Perry answer this

What I'm getting at is that Miller can be a role or a modifier, and the reason I was asking was because it's useful to know what all these millers have been told in their neighborhood and do you understand what I'm saying or do I have to dumb it down?

I'll give you an example: there's a huge difference between "everyone in this neighborhood is a Ninja" and "everyone in this neighborhood has the ninja modifier."

I'll let Perry answer this

Nope I'm good.

JJD asked about the slip, this is where Pelipper is outed as scum.
We are informed in our role PM that everyone in our neighborhood investigates as scum. We are not informed the reason each individual in our neighborhood investigates as scum, just that we all do.

Kuribo asked whether we each have a modifier on our roles giving us the "investigates as scum" quality, or whether we don't. In the latter case the entire neighborhood would be composed of mafia and millers, since miller is the only role that doesn't need a modifier to investigate as mafia.

Pelipper declines to answer the question and incriminate himself. If Flavor Leaf and I are both simply Millers, then it will sound fishy if he claims he is a vig with a "checks as scum" modifier or a doctor with a "checks as scum" modifier or etc. If Flavor Leaf and I are vigs/doctors/cops etc with the "checks as scum" modifier, it will sound suspicious if he claims he doesn't have a modifier. (it's actually not that suspicious if he's a miller, but he really missed the timing on his shot for claiming miller.)

In reality, I do have a modifier. The modifier is integral to my identity as my furriness and it applies even if I leave the neighborhood.

Except it also states it explicitly in the neighborhood pt. I don't know what the last line is about, I didn't know leaving neighborhoods was a thing?

yeah the marquis neighborhood has the ability to make you leave your neighborhood this was revealed a couple pages ago

[Perry Pelican]

Isn't JJD light town as of 967?

No? Jjd making a good point about Marquis combined with the information I have doesn't make jjd town, it doesn't make Marquis town and it doesn't rule out them being scum together.

I don't explicitly scumread jjd, but the fact it's A50 and I don't have a read on them at all is concerning.

[ofrhz]

Fishyboye where are you at? Are you still scumreading pops?

[Perry Pelican]

My issue pops is that it's a slip if I don't have the information that the neighborhood investigates as mafia and I had to infer that knowledge instead. But it's literally in the pt. The angle you're pushing isn't really a slip it's more like "he's scum worried about possible modifiers" like vig etc etc which is valid I guess but not anything I'm worried about. I came in expecting no one in the hood to be millers but everyone claiming miller given the modifier. That's exactly how it happened so.

[Perry Pelican]

Nick, we're friends right? If I said I thought something was off about you. You would tell me what it is right?

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'm putting Perry in my town pile for now.

[Perry Pelican]

I don't really like the nuke list. So maybe nuke the bottom list but switch Chandra with jjd.

Holy smokes.

Assuming you're town, one of us has absolutely awful reads.

If it turns out to be me, I will fully admit to my error post-game, but I expect the same courtesy from you if it's the opposite.

Of course. But I don't think we are the same alignment, as told by my vote.

Adding to this I also suspect you and Marquis are not the same alignment but it's really weak. So it's possible I'm wrong on you and he's the scum between you.

[Kagami]

I don't really like the nuke list. So maybe nuke the bottom list but switch Chandra with jjd.

Holy smokes.

Assuming you're town, one of us has absolutely awful reads.

If it turns out to be me, I will fully admit to my error post-game, but I expect the same courtesy from you if it's the opposite.

Of course. But I don't think we are the same alignment, as told by my vote.

While I'm making a show of being fairhanded, the truth is that I wouldn't have made the above statement if your vote on me didn't provide strong evidence that I'm not the one who will be proven wrong.

p-edit: Yes, perry is town. =\

[ofrhz]

Nick, we're friends right? If I said I thought something was off about you. You would tell me what it is right?

We’re friends!

[Perry Pelican]

yeah the marquis neighborhood has the ability to make you leave your neighborhood this was revealed a couple pages ago

Can you link the post I think I skimmed over it. Would hood modifiers still apply? Like if you joined another hood do you still invest as mafia?

That's possibly strong.

[popsofctown]

Except it also states it explicitly in the neighborhood pt.

The statement in the role PM is a Provides Information thing, it doesn't create the characteristic in question.

For me it is the modification to my role that creates the characteristic in question.

For you it is your alignment that creates the characteristic in question, although a redundant modifier would probably have been a good idea.

Maybe you are hinting you will claim a homebrew miller variant or something weird that does not need a modifier that inherently investigates as mafia like, "whenever someone targets you, no matter what the action is, even if they just tried to give you Fruit, they just get a PM that says 'Pelipper is mafia' "

I'm excited to be wow'ed in massclaim I guess


PEDIT: you're calling it a shared modifier, and it's actually the second time. I HAVE AN INDIVIDUAL MODIFIER. INDIVIDUALLY. There is a declarative statement to the effect that "it happens to be the case that anyone who cops any of these three people get a guilty", and then an additional statement, which to be read as not redundant to the previous one has the only one creating the existence of a special ability, that says "you like eating garbage out of the trash, yiffing, you got detention 3 times in third grade, and whenever cops you they get mafia".

You only even think the Informed element of the neighborhood is a "shared modifier" because you don't have a town role PM

[Perry Pelican]

I don't really like the nuke list. So maybe nuke the bottom list but switch Chandra with jjd.

Holy smokes.

Assuming you're town, one of us has absolutely awful reads.

If it turns out to be me, I will fully admit to my error post-game, but I expect the same courtesy from you if it's the opposite.

Of course. But I don't think we are the same alignment, as told by my vote.

While I'm making a show of being fairhanded, the truth is that I wouldn't have made the above statement if your vote on me didn't provide strong evidence that I'm not the one who will be proven wrong.

p-edit: Yes, perry is town. =\

I try to be understanding when pushed as scum so that approach isn't really easing my suspicions. It may be a case of us having no meta. Who in the playerlist is familiar with your play and who do you think reads you best?

Also to anyone with Kagami related experience if you could confirm their statements feel free.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't really like the nuke list. So maybe nuke the bottom list but switch Chandra with jjd.

Yeah, the nuke list is really poor, and if it wasn’t just a reaction test and based off actual reads, I’d say it was a scum move from scum trying to discredit specific players early not knowing how hard that would actually be with that PL.

[Perry Pelican]

Except it also states it explicitly in the neighborhood pt.

The statement in the role PM is a Provides Information thing, it doesn't create the characteristic in question.

For me it is the modification to my role that creates the characteristic in question.

For you it is your alignment that creates the characteristic in question, although a redundant modifier would probably have been a good idea.

Maybe you are hinting you will claim a homebrew miller variant or something weird that does not need a modifier that inherently investigates as mafia like, "whenever someone targets you, no matter what the action is, even if they just tried to give you Fruit, they just get a PM that says 'Pelipper is mafia' "

I'm excited to be wow'ed in massclaim I guess


PEDIT: you're calling it a shared modifier, and it's actually the second time. I HAVE AN INDIVIDUAL MODIFIER. INDIVIDUALLY. There is a declarative statement to the effect that "it happens to be the case that anyone who cops any of these three people get a guilty", and then an additional statement, which to be read as not redundant to the previous one has the only one creating the existence of a special ability, that says "you like eating garbage out of the trash, yiffing, you got detention 3 times in third grade, and whenever cops you they get mafia".

You only even think the Informed element of the neighborhood is a "shared modifier" because you don't have a town role PM

No I'm saying we all investigate as mafia. Regardless of role and it created the miller claims. I don't think you're a miller, I don't think FL is a miller, I don't think I'm a miller but we all function as miller. FL is softing a separate role at this moment that he is not. But he's only softing it to like 2 people... I think? I might be mixing games.

You do this a lot where you fly down this rabbit hole that leads to a dead end and then turn around and ask why you were pushed. Let it go.

[popsofctown]

yeah the marquis neighborhood has the ability to make you leave your neighborhood this was revealed a couple pages ago

Would hood modifiers still apply? Like if you joined another hood do you still invest as mafia?

That's possibly strong.

Oh my law

you keep claiming scum

closed setups are a nightmare

no one will lynch it anyway

which is nice because there is nothing satisfying about catching a scum off aberrations and wrinkles in a closed setup like this

but not nice in the sense that I prefer to win all my games of mafia instead of lose them



there's no way town!Pelipper even has to ask if he keeps the modifier if he leaves the neighborhood it's totally unambiguous that the modifier stays.

(it probably doesn't survive the vanillerization associated with Marquis's neighborhood in particular, ofc though)

[popsofctown]

let's make a deal

we lynch kagami

if he flips town you let me deathtunnel you until one of us dies

[ofrhz]

I think pops is town. It also feels good to see someone else get lectured by her this time

Pedit: has the hood modifier already been outed?

[Perry Pelican]

let's make a deal

we lynch kagami

if he flips town you let me deathtunnel you until one of us dies

You will die first and I guarantee that. Do you still want to make that deal?

[Kagami]

Kagami experience: Ceph > Marquis > pops. I've played with Pine, pisskop, and kuribo once each, iirc. I don't know the rest of you.

I would absolutely nuke that list in an instant and expect at least two hits. If you want to provide more than "I don't like it," then I'd be delighted to hear what that is.