Newbie 1953 | Zooborns IV | Game Over

[Leucosticte]

I didn't say the PR claim was sus, I based my scumread on the behavioral red flag of "just lynch me already." But it was just a scumread, nothing more.

UNVOTE: Dyrenz

[Micc]

Now can we all find somewhere else to push, like farren or norwegian? Ty

Can you try to sell me on one of these please? Not looking for a full case, just a summary of things I should be looking at.

[Plotinus]

official vote count 1.11

red kangaroo joey

---

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Leucosticte

(2): Micc, Dyrenz

Farren

(2): skitter30, Mr Oobsy

Chemist1422

(2): NorwegianboyEE, Jamelia

Dyrenz

(1): Farren

NorwegianboyEE

(1): Chemist1422

Not Voting

(1): Leucosticte

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-09-04 23:00:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[Leucosticte]

By the way, I think in one or two recent cases when I was casting votes, I thought I was fully caught up with the discussion and somehow missed that, e.g., half a page more of discussion had transpired that I hadn't seen; I'll keep an eye out next time for that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Skitter30, if you have a valid reason for scumreading me i would like to hear it.

[Farren]

Eh, fuck it.

I'm Town Friendly Neighbor so we're obviously in B
There's a Mafia Rolecop, guaranteed.
Other PR is Tracker or Jailkeeper. Speculating this is hardly inappropriate since they're the only 2 options given my own role.

UNVOTE: Dyrenz

[Farren]

*sigh*

I'm sorry. I really am. I'm being overly emotional and letting those feelings drive what I write. I get frustrated. I'm sure anyone who is still just trying to learn how to play a good town game would get frustrated when everything they try to do gets thrown back in their face as wrong or false. Makes me feel like an idiot. Maybe I'm just too thin-skinned for this game. Idk. I'm gonna try to continue to do what I can to scumhunt, but I'm getting sick of feeling like I have to constantly defend myself on every page, especially when I know I'm town and I'm trying so hard to communicate that in my actions.

So again, I apologize for being so bad at this. My first game I was really meek and careful, and I tried to be more confident in my play this game and all it has done is blow up in my face. Sorry everyone.

Eh. Getting emotional is understandable. I don't think anyone with experience at this is going to say they don't understand. I'm certainly not.

Having to defend yourself constantly can be nerve-wracking. Happens to all of us.

Assuming you're not scum making a fake claim (unlikely), your odds of getting shot just jumped through the roof. Definitely keep scumhunting today, and if you've got anything you want to say, don't assume you'll be able to say it on D2.

[Farren]

I didnt like the bit where you asked if he thought his two scumreads were the team

A) that's a bad approach to take to scumhunting at this stage of the game, preflips. Just like for scum individually, for the most part, it's not really helpful to try to shoe-horn both reads into a scumread at this stage

B) i'm not sure how to articulate it exactly, but it kinda felt like a leading question

A: Disagree, at least in the case where you have exactly two scumreads. If they're not a valid potential team, it means at least one of them is wrong. It's more likely to be helpful later, yes, but that doesn't mean it's useless now.

B: If the answer was yes, then there'd be follow-up, unless it was explained sufficiently from the get-go. If the answer was no, then it'd prompt a suggestion to re-evaluate the reads. If the answer was uncertain, then I probably table it until there's more certainty. Not a leading question.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Well we definitely can’t rely on power roles now. Dyrenz i know you’re most likely town, but you just made this harder for us. I guess my comment to Oobsy about the importance of not just relying on power roles now makes double the amount of sense.

[Farren]

Sigh
Dyrenz is town
You should not have claimed this early

Now can we all find somewhere else to push, like farren or norwegian? Ty

No point in criticizing Dyrenz's choice to claim now, unless you're making a scumcase out of it - which clearly you're not.

I actually need to re-read Norwegian. My scumread there is stale, and I don't recall anything recent from him that's pinged me.

[Farren]

My initial scumread was based on this:

You call it RVS, i have a different name for it. Aggression.
I don't know what kind of culture exists at this site, but where i come from we generally frown upon people that meekly follow the whims of the masses in feeding baseless bandwagons. Even if you don't turn out to be scum, i doubt the town would be overly harmed by one mislynch of this caliber.

Specifically, calling out chemist for "Aggression." Post 63 itself is aggressive tonally. Calling out someone for a particular scummy behavior while doing that same scummy behavior is a strong sign of scum.

But looking further, I think we're dealing with different meanings - or at least different applications of the word.

"meekly follow the whims of the masses" doesn't describe aggression. Meekness and aggression are pretty much polar opposites. But this was specifically being used to describe Chemist's vote, not Chemist's attitude or tone.

I don't think of aggression in this game as being centered on how a person votes; I think of it in terms of how a person acts. What language they use.

You are correct. My posts tend to be more reactive in general. It’s the way i play most of the time. I’ve tried to be more outgoing before but it usually ends in me getting lynched by mafia because i might get erratic or obsessive over those i believe to be mafia. Therefore i am intentionally trying to tone down my language and behaviour so i can stay more calm and collected about this whole thing.

"more outgoing," "erratic or obsessive" sounds like what I'd define as aggressive behavior - at least when put together like that.

Point is, aggression (by my definition) is *not* inherently scummy. The inherently scummy thing is saying "aggression is scummy" while acting aggressive. But in this case, I should be looking at what Norwegian actually defines as aggressive to apply that tell properly. In this case, that was the bandwagon voting. Which Norwegian didn't do, so the tell doesn't apply.

Conclusion: Norwegian goes back to a neutral read for now.

[skitter30]

Now can we all find somewhere else to push, like farren or norwegian? Ty

Can you try to sell me on one of these please? Not looking for a full case, just a summary of things I should be looking at.

The tldr version is:

-> i feel like much if farren's posting is busywork, like he's posting to be seen posting

-> norwegian is pushing chemist for a narrative that did not happen / is incredibly unlikely to have happened, and is still pushing there once i pointed that out repeatedly

Namely, he's pushing the notion that chemist made an l-2 p1 vote in order to facilitate and spur on a quickhammer, when there is exactly zero evidence to support this notion.

[skitter30]

I didn't say the PR claim was sus, I based my scumread on the behavioral red flag of "just lynch me already." But it was just a scumread, nothing more.

UNVOTE: Dyrenz

Right, and in this context i think the pr claim is townier (/less likely to come from scum) than how scummy this attitude is

[skitter30]

Skitter30, if you have a valid reason for scumreading me i would like to hear it.

I've given it multiple times now

[skitter30]

I didnt like the bit where you asked if he thought his two scumreads were the team

A) that's a bad approach to take to scumhunting at this stage of the game, preflips. Just like for scum individually, for the most part, it's not really helpful to try to shoe-horn both reads into a scumread at this stage

B) i'm not sure how to articulate it exactly, but it kinda felt like a leading question

A: Disagree, at least in the case where you have exactly two scumreads. If they're not a valid potential team, it means at least one of them is wrong. It's more likely to be helpful later, yes, but that doesn't mean it's useless now.

B: If the answer was yes, then there'd be follow-up, unless it was explained sufficiently from the get-go. If the answer was no, then it'd prompt a suggestion to re-evaluate the reads. If the answer was uncertain, then I probably table it until there's more certainty. Not a leading question.

A) i generally believe that on day1 there isnt enough info to ascertain whether or not a scumteam is possible or not, which is why i dont think this is a fruitful train of thought day1

B) ok fair enough

[Farren]

skitter: what's your take on Jamelia's case on Chemist?

[skitter30]

Right now my vote is for:

VOTE: Chemist

Based off of everything I do think that voting for Chemist will reveal more than just them being mafia/town. I think their posts don't necessarily hold as much merit as other people, especially when (in my opinion) he is acting more defensive than trying to be proactive on who is scum/town-sided.

This?
I dont like it much:

1. Not sure why he's voting chemist here, like after the wagon/hype died down
2. I'm not sure why he's characterizing chrmist's posts as not having as much merit
3. Honestly dont get why he's voting here now

[Farren]

Plus if he's gonna single me out as the most sus, I should probably return the favor and make him justify it more if he wants my vote shifted elsewhere.

UNVOTE: Mr Oobsy
VOTE: Chemist1422

A) where did this happen?
B) why is this a voteworthy offense?

Leucosticte: I didn't see an answer to this question.

I also didn't see any of Chemist's posts where he described you as "most sus" or anything similar. I see the RVS vote and post 203, where he puts you in the "not a town read" category.

Could you please answer?

[Dyrenz]

Guys I don't know what to do now, my only lean now is on Jamelia and that's mostly for a combination of low effort posting and continuing to push Chemist without really adding new reasons to lynch. I guess for now I'll just...

UNVOTE: Luecosticte
VOTE: Jamelia

Everyone else seems to be contributing at least somewhat. Maybe the more experienced players are gaining better insight than I am on what is truly productive and what is just text for the sake of text.

[Chemist1422]

Guys I don't know what to do now, my only lean now is on Jamelia and that's mostly for a combination of low effort posting and continuing to push Chemist without really adding new reasons to lynch. I guess for now I'll just...

UNVOTE: Luecosticte
VOTE: Jamelia

Everyone else seems to be contributing at least somewhat. Maybe the more experienced players are gaining better insight than I am on what is truly productive and what is just text for the sake of text.

I thought Norweigan was actually doing that more than Jamelia but I can see where you're coming from on this read

[Mr Oobsy]

Unless someone gets healed.

Sure if someone gets healed you gain half a day. If two people get healed you gain another half day and end up back where you started.

Interesting, you're right. But what if someone gets healed

tonight

? That would give

Town

an extra day, correct?

By the way, I do appreciate how you proved that counter-intuitive concept to me. It was exactly the sort of response I was hoping for.

I will consider today's votes as meaningless. Likewise for the discussion surrounding them.

What's the point if even playing the game then?

I retract that in light of

Dyrenz

'

Friendly Neighbor

claim.

Eh, fuck it.

I'm Town Friendly Neighbor so we're obviously in B
There's a Mafia Rolecop, guaranteed.
Other PR is Tracker or Jailkeeper. Speculating this is hardly inappropriate since they're the only 2 options given my own role.

Jeez, Day 1 PR. Good man! This should be a staple of every match. I've been so lonely as the only claim, and if anyone disagrees with our decision they are just a bunch of monkeys

By the way, if my brevity comes off as rude or disinterested, it was not my intention to snub Micc. I may look grumpy on the outside, but I assure you I am adorable on the inside. Just trying to help you understand what type of player I am.

[Jamelia]

Guys I don't know what to do now, my only lean now is on Jamelia and that's mostly for a combination of low effort posting and continuing to push Chemist without really adding new reasons to lynch. I guess for now I'll just...

UNVOTE: Luecosticte
VOTE: Jamelia

Everyone else seems to be contributing at least somewhat. Maybe the more experienced players are gaining better insight than I am on what is truly productive and what is just text for the sake of text.

And now back to me for your everlasting list of targets.

I’m not low effort posting, I’m trying to contribute to the analysis of fighting and explanations from people because I haven’t had many follow up questions to my posts and when I do give analysis, it’s either ignored or brushed past.

I’m also not “pushing” for chemist. In my opinion if we’re voting based on who we all think is the most “scum acting” so far, my vote is for Chemist. I’m not trying to change anyone opinions on it, but no one has convinced me that someone else has been scummier than them.

[Chemist1422]

Guys I don't know what to do now, my only lean now is on Jamelia and that's mostly for a combination of low effort posting and continuing to push Chemist without really adding new reasons to lynch. I guess for now I'll just...

UNVOTE: Luecosticte
VOTE: Jamelia

Everyone else seems to be contributing at least somewhat. Maybe the more experienced players are gaining better insight than I am on what is truly productive and what is just text for the sake of text.

And now back to me for your everlasting list of targets.

I’m not low effort posting, I’m trying to contribute to the analysis of fighting and explanations from people because I haven’t had many follow up questions to my posts and when I do give analysis, it’s either ignored or brushed past.

I’m also not “pushing” for chemist. In my opinion if we’re voting based on who we all think is the most “scum acting” so far, my vote is for Chemist. I’m not trying to change anyone opinions on it, but no one has convinced me that someone else has been scummier than them.

So wait if you're not pushing me then you don't want me lynched correct

Because if not they why aren't you pushing me, and if so why aren't you if you think I'm the scummiest?

[Jamelia]

If we were voting based off of “who will help us win and contributed the best”, then I’d probably vote for you, Dyrenz except you decided to PR claim and no one has CC’d you.

Logically there are people who I have also deemed scum (which I wrote in my original analysis a few pages back), which has only been brought up now.

[Jamelia]

Guys I don't know what to do now, my only lean now is on Jamelia and that's mostly for a combination of low effort posting and continuing to push Chemist without really adding new reasons to lynch. I guess for now I'll just...

UNVOTE: Luecosticte
VOTE: Jamelia

Everyone else seems to be contributing at least somewhat. Maybe the more experienced players are gaining better insight than I am on what is truly productive and what is just text for the sake of text.

And now back to me for your everlasting list of targets.

I’m not low effort posting, I’m trying to contribute to the analysis of fighting and explanations from people because I haven’t had many follow up questions to my posts and when I do give analysis, it’s either ignored or brushed past.

I’m also not “pushing” for chemist. In my opinion if we’re voting based on who we all think is the most “scum acting” so far, my vote is for Chemist. I’m not trying to change anyone opinions on it, but no one has convinced me that someone else has been scummier than them.

So wait if you're not pushing me then you don't want me lynched correct

Because if not they why aren't you pushing me, and if so why aren't you if you think I'm the scummiest?

Don’t play semantics and twist my words, please. The argument was that I was “pushing” you to be the target and being adamant about you being lynched. That’s not my feelings and I stated that.

You are the one that hasn’t proven to me you aren’t scum based off of the responses being said. That doesn’t mean I cannot be persuaded a different way, but my opinion on the matter isn’t AS STRONG as other people’s scumreads.