Mini Normal 2095 - Game Over!

[Klick]

A50, I feel as though the case against Icon is fairly solid. Can you look over it and tell me why what he's done isn't scum-indicative? I could use a fresh pair of eyes.

[Almost50]

Iconeum: Claimed PR. Crumbed it pretty obviously before "fake claiming" another PR (but same function). I buy the claim that he targeted Ali, but I am confused as to why he would if he thought Ali was likely the NK. All in all you don't lynch the ONLY claimed PR in the game. For all we know he could be the sole PR we have here.

Luca Blight: He was pressured for most of D1 (the part after Ali subbed in) yet he didn't stutter or falter. If he is scum I'd commend him for his steal nerves. I think his reaction was well composed and even his anger sounded genuine to me.

Lil Uzi Vert: I auto SR LUV, so that's not it. Billy was so relaxed for a newb scum and that "test" really works in his favour. Also the timing of his replace-out would be odd for a scumster as it was clear the pressure is totally off his slot.

Klick: Natural ungated thoughts even if he seems to go against the louder voices. He only cares to show his own thoughts as clear as possible and doesn't seem to care about the consequences.

Datisi: This may be the most inexplicable TR of mine in this game. I had her as Town early on from tone, but then I didn't see a single thing that made me reconsider. It doesn't help that the pushes against her were bad and that;s probably what Ali saw and thus decided to throw his weight behind saving her.

Almost50: That's me. I only have my role PM to argue with (and it's not available to any of you, so I perfectly understand). If I was a bypasser I'd wonder what this slot has done to be TR'd, but I also have the advantage of knowing me and knowing I'm not this passive as scum.. like EVER.

Tchill13: I killed the notion to pressure you on D1 because you were acting exactly the same as the previous game when you got lynched on D1 and were town. I sometimes feel for people who continuously get ML'd early on (ask Cheeky. I think I've defended her as both alignments as she is one of those slots people just love to vote early on). Today you are probably the one who is trying the hardest to get the game moving, so if I was going to null read your play on D1 I sure am TRing you on your D2 play.

So there! Now help me see the light by poking wholes in my short analysis on whomever you wish to. Just don't try to use something that could be seen from a different angle, because as long as it's debatable then I am more likely to hold on to my own view. But tell me "this is wrong because..." and I'm game.

[Almost50]

A50, I feel as though the case against Icon is fairly solid. Can you look over it and tell me why what he's done isn't scum-indicative? I could use a fresh pair of eyes.

I'm sure you do, but I would say it's 50-50 at best. I think we give "our ONLY investigative" another night. If he was scum and we had another investigative they would have checked him on N1, or -at the very latest- would be checking him tonight.

So, Icon gives you a result (i.e. gets confirmed along with his target), or another investigative gets a guilty on him, OR that other investigative dies and his flip is evidence enough Icon is lying.

My fear is Icon IS what he says he is and then we lynch him today and are actively throwing.

[Klick]

Iconeum: [...] All in all you don't lynch the ONLY claimed PR in the game. For all we know he could be the sole PR we have here.

Fwiw this is why I really would like to see a massclaim.

[Almost50]

Don't you think if someone had the proper CC they would have done it already?

The problem with the massclaim is it also outs the protective (if any). If there's no protective, Icon is dead 100% of the time if he is town.

So let me put it this way:

Massclaim >> Doctor is outed >> Doctor is shot (regardless of Icon's true alignment)
Massclaim >> No Doctor >> Icon is dead (assuming he is town)

No Massclaim >> Icon has a chance to do something beneficial (if he is town)
No Massclaim >> An investigative flips or they get a result on Icon.. or they catch the other scum and then claim and we lynch them both (the caught scum and Icon)

[Klick]

Luca Blight: He was pressured for most of D1 (the part after Ali subbed in) yet he didn't stutter or falter. If he is scum I'd commend him for his steal nerves. I think his reaction was well composed and even his anger sounded genuine to me.

Going to challenge your reasoning here. Are these things you can't see a player like Luca doing as scum? I think he exhibits this behavior as either alignment. And that's consistent with the meta I did on him a while ago - in fact, in the one game he seemed to lose his cool, he was town. (Given the circumstances I couldn't really blame him, but l find the contrast between his behavior there and his behavior towards Alisae interesting.)

I think his anger is definitely genuine. But that can come from scum in that position.

PEdit: I have stuff to say about that but got to go now, will respond later

[Tchill13]

I don't believe we should mass claim given a protective may still be out there.

[Tchill13]

A50 why do you assume I'm constantly mislynched early based off one game? That doesn't happen terribly often I don't think?

[Tchill13]

Its very odd to me that ppl are very cut and dry on icon. They're not even hesitating on that slot much at all.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Lil uzi Vert

He seems like he's saying a lot but he's not actually saying much at all after you read through it.

[Tchill13]

But hey let's not pressure uzi AT ALL because Billy passed some basic "test" and looked towny.

[Almost50]

In Team Mafia you replaced out and still your slot got lynched on D1

In mini Normal 2041 you also got lynched on D1

The only other game I have with you is Open 713 and you were also MISlynched, only it was D4.

Now considering I lynched you myself (i.e. was on your wagon) in 2041 & have had a SR on your slot in TM O am wary of the fact. 713 doesn't even really count as I was scum and I also was dead.

Now remind me if you had played with me as AP/JJD/Almost Chara, and specifically if I had ever seen your scum game.

[Tchill13]

We can continue this discussion post game but you literally only mentioned one game I played the whole d1 and got lynched lol.

I don't use alts. Ever. You'll never see me as an Alt.

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:
Unless there's some really convincing arguments, I'm against the massclaim today

Tchill, why is Klick your TR now?

[Tchill13]

A50, Luca, icon has the strongest scum reads is something I'd agree with.

He's pushing hard for icon to be lynched. Scums best case scenario if icon is town is for him to be in lylo and push him to be the lynch. His slot will have the most questions regarding it.

Icon WILL NOT be night killed tonight by scum if he isn't lynched and is town.

Icon can't even clear people. He's not an investigative. If he can I'm missing that point entirely.

IF klick were to be scum then I'd feel good about LUV being scum with him. That's not something I'm willing to bet the game on rn however.

[Tchill13]

And if someone says icon can find scum based on someone's inability to read his note...

That means I have to TRUST icon. A player that fake claimed for no reason other than to manipulate Alisae, ONE PLAYER, early...

I have absolutely no reason to trust icon.

[Almost50]

So what exactly are you proposing??

[Tchill13]

We let LUV and datisi interact a bit more. Then I'll get to my proposition.

[Tchill13]

The more datisi just lurks the scummier she's getting.

[Almost50]

OK.

[Datisi]

Yeah, fair enough. I'll reread D2 tomorrow and try to get something out of it.

Well Alisae probably wasn't correct about everything.

I have more to judge when it comes to Luca. I thought my reasoning behind town Luca was fine.

I'm not gonna 100 percent blindly follow Ali but I'm not gonna ignore her altogether also.

Were you TRing or SRing Luca at the time of this post?

[Tchill13]

TR'ing luca at the time.

I believe my reasoning on tr luca makes sense but his play today, and overall, leans scum. I'm solely TR'ing luca because he pushed me and flippy as scum d1. Of course that may not be a great reason to TR him.

[Datisi]

Icon can't even clear people. He's not an investigative. If he can I'm missing that point entirely.

And if someone says icon can find scum based on someone's inability to read his note...

That means I have to TRUST icon. A player that fake claimed for no reason other than to manipulate Alisae, ONE PLAYER, early...

I have absolutely no reason to trust icon.

Btw, how is "hey, I told X to say this phrase at daystart and they didn't so they're scum" different than "I investigated X and they're scum"? In either case you'd have to trust Icon.

[Tchill13]

thats a good point.

I'd have to trust a cop who lived through 2 night phases in lylo.

[Luca Blight]

TR'ing luca at the time.

I believe my reasoning on tr luca makes sense but his play today, and overall, leans scum. I'm solely TR'ing luca because he pushed me and flippy as scum d1. Of course that may not be a great reason to TR him.

Wait a second, you were solidly ownreading me before I had ever made the association between you and Flippy, so perhaps you’d better explain that one.

I’m sick at the moment so my involvement is going to be limited until at least Tomorrow.