Mini Normal 2095 - Game Over!

[Tchill13]

Luv/luca/me.

[Luca Blight]

Given that you townread me and I am much less sure about you, does it not therefore follow that you should claim before me?

Just like I Townread Klick, but he is much less sure about me, so I am willing to claim before him.

[Luca Blight]

I'm bored and no-one is around, so I'm gonna detail some of the reasons I dislike Tchill's D2 play.

Spoiler:

Icon should target LUV.

We lynch A50.

counterproposal to town steering my power

make a list of 2 players from which i choose

that way scum can't both kill me and fake a message if i target them
that way scum can't kill my target and continue to wifom the crap out of me
that way if scum is in the 2 they can't fake a message (unless the bracket is both scum but rip then)

or we could just lynch you.

Haven't decided yet.

I mean whats more convenient? You being alive after d1 cop claim or scum killing the person you investigated?

He's had a scattergun approach to D2, which makes me feel like he's deliberately trying to cause confusion and keep his options open as much as possible, while trying to make out he's doing the opposite.

Spoiler:

Also on Luca.

I wanted to lock town him. He was the FIRST person to suggest a "tchill flippynips" scum team. He highlighted that me and flippynips both fell short of a town read due to PoE. THEN he makes a case we're both scum together, which is convenient enough for him considering we're both scum leans due to PoE.

I seen this as "pre confirmation bias" that's how a town!Luca got to this scum team.

Now the key is it does not bode well for scum to suggest a scum team d1 when they don't have to. Tchill/flippynips loses traction when flippynips flips town.

Luca could have easily just pushed flippynips as scum.

So the fact that he was the FIRST to suggest that team and the fact that I can see how he talked himself into it with pre confirmation bias... I think he's town.

His play today I've not been a fan of. He's mostly ONLY developing reads on other players due to his interactions with them. Very scummy imo.

But I'm pretty confident about my initial read. I ultimately think Luca is town.

I really dislike this post. He's townreading me, but then saying I'm '

very scummy

' for '

developing reads on other players due to his interactions with them'

. This is not something that is inherently scummy at all. It feels like he wants others to disagree with his read and push my lynch, so he'd have another Flippy situation on his hands (scum gold - the player you defended and didn't want lynched flips Town), or at the very least keeping me as a viable ML for D3.

Spoiler:

The longer A50/LUV doesn't post the more I think town wins this game if we lynch in this order:

A50/LUV/(icon or klick)

I'm willing to stand firm on my Luca read.

I'm willing to trust Ali on her datisi read after my town lean there.

I really dislike how he's using Alisae's reads to justify his own - he is cherry-picking parts that suit him and ignoring the parts that don't. If Alisae was so wrong about her main read in the game, why would you trust whatever else they said? It feels really insincere on Tchill's part.

And here he is again dictating the tempo and changing his mind, causing more confusion.

Spoiler:

@Luca I got a few things wrong and I'm not following the game... That hurts man. That hurts... It's actually a staple of my play. I do this all the time. Extremely annoying ik but this is my first game back in a year.

STOP TRYING TO SIT ON THE FENCE ON MY SLOT. EITHER SCUM READ ME OR TOWN READ ME. TAKE A STANCE.

you're most in depth breakdowns come from interactions you have with others. Regardless of whether not you do the WHOLE iso or not.

You were very quick to lean town on icon after his claim. A claim that involves: claiming cop d1 and not dying. Sending a note to the player icon believes most likely to die if they're town. (this action DOES NOT determine Alisae's alignment btw)

And the way I'm forming my, endgame here. I have no way to push you out of the blue. I obviously believe scum is in (A50/LUV/Icon/klick)

Hell, I'm going great lengths to town clear you. I NEED 2 townies I can trust in. Alisae is a good player. She scum read you hard. I have to have a reason to disagree with her, a town Alisae, while also having a reason to agree with her on datisi

.

This translates as '

Alisae scumread you but I'm doing you a favour by not agreeing with her, now behave and do as you're told'

.

Spoiler:

VOTE: almost50

Votes A50, but this will soon change again.

Spoiler:

A50, at the moment I'm between you/Icon/Luca as likely scum, and you're mostly on the list because nothing your slot has done has given me any reason to think it's town.

This is good. So what for think about my town case of Luca? Where you puts me and flippy as scum due to poe. He then talks himself into a flippy/tchill scum team.

I don't see why he'd suggest a scum team when he could just push flippy and be fine.

I also don't know how much credit to give him on THIS (the main reason I TR him) because he's still leaning scum on me. He trusts me the least atm and I'm still not sure why.

I think my argument for town Luca would hold more weight if he had opened the day TR'ing me.

Yes its convenient my lock towing of Luca depends on him TR'ing me. If you keep my point in mind though I think it's understandable why I believe he should have opened the day TR'ing me.

He still scum reads me. I'm not sure how to react to that in terms of what scum would do here after pushing a team and one of them flips town. So they go ahead and continue to push the other as scum? Then why even mention the pairing as a team?

If I KNEW icon was town then Luca is probably my next bet at scum among the active slots.

Klick has managed to obtain a TR from me.

Again Tchill discredits his own Luca TR, and then unbelievably says that if Icon is Town then I am the next most likely to be scum? That is a ridiculous and, in my opinion, scummy progression to make.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Lil uzi Vert

He seems like he's saying a lot but he's not actually saying much at all after you read through it.

Another change of direction.

Spoiler:

The more datisi just lurks the scummier she's getting.

More shading.

Spoiler:

TR'ing luca at the time.

I believe my reasoning on tr luca makes sense but his play today, and overall, leans scum. I'm solely TR'ing luca because he pushed me and flippy as scum d1. Of course that may not be a great reason to TR him.

More discrediting of his Luca TR. His whole progression of his Luca read reeks of insincerity.

Spoiler:

VOTE: iconeum

Dude was on every wagon that reached L-1.

Dude claimed cop when he didn't have to. Some say scum wouldn't claim dop d1. Well I say scum also wouldn't be on every L-1 wagon unless he's just that aggressive... He could be.

Alisae's last read was a luca/Icon scum team.

He used his action on the player most likely to be killed if town.

If icon is still alive next day phase he will automatically be my lynch. I'm not gonna risk scum skating by on a fake claim to a victory like that. That's on town if scum win by, fake claiming cop d1.

Another change of direction, with poor reasoning to boot.

Being on many wagons D1 is not a scumtell. Ali's last read was not a Luca/Icon scumteam. And then excusing himself for what would be, as town, potentially game-losing play on D3.

Spoiler:

I'll tell you rn if icon flips town and you're still on the board A50 your primary suspect number one

Now he changes to A50 being most likely scum if Icon is Town.

Spoiler:

We could just lynch obv scum luv. Dude hasn't done a thing.

And Billy being hard tr is so weak it hurts.

Another change in direction, and he says this just before Uzi is about to claim, which is dubious. It's as if he is preemptively discrediting whatever claim he might make.

[Luca Blight]

And just to show the other side of the coin, I actually liked Tchill's D2 play: his frustration about Icon's claim felt genuine, and of course he got some Townie points for the Flippy defence, which is why I entered D2 with a gut townread on Tchill.

But as I said above, there is also scum benefit in defending someone who is very likely to be mislynched - how many times has Tchill reminded us about Flippy during D2? He is seeking that towncred. In my opinion, I could see Scum!Tchill defending Town!Flippy on D1. He got a few townie points for it, but it isn't anywhere near enough to clear him, which he should acknowledge himself given his own apparent high standards for TR'ing someone (although these high standards seem inconsistent this game).

[Luca Blight]

I actually liked Tchill's

early

D2 play*

[Iconeum]

From what i've seen, it's a difficult read on Tchill

I liked his play from what I remember, but he has been flip flopping like crazy?

let me see if i can back that up

[Iconeum]

Tchill a question first.

Do you think I am scum with Datisi?

[Luca Blight]

Also the point about Alisae - it could be possible scum-motivation for the NK if their reads were way off the mark.

I remember a game where I was killed N1 and my reads were off, and the following day one of the scum players kept referring back to my reads and using it as a reason to justify their reads/shade certain players.

Tchill's whole '

do you really not trust Alisae's reads at all

' line is really rubbing me up the wrong way, especially given the way he himself is cherry-picking from said reads.

[Iconeum]

A lot of flip flopping but i'm not gonna go into it, I think it's town.

[Datisi]

Luca, I think you've mentioned everyone in 1727? Who would you put as Tchill's partner?

[Iconeum]

Luca, if Tchill is scum then he deliberately chose not to NK me in order to wifom the crap out of my claim. If he's scum, he knows i'm town and it's probably a PR in any case. He then has to come into D2 to push me, and he will have a lot of dirt in his ISO going the next days for pushing a mislynch on a town PR.

He could opt to kill the threat that is Ali, and wait to kill me the next day but I strongly doubt scum would actively try to mislynch me.
That comes from (frustrated) town a LOT more then scum.

[Luca Blight]

Luca, I think you've mentioned everyone in 1727? Who would you put as Tchill's partner?

I'm not playing that game again after D1.

If Tchill is scum then I would fully expect him to be including his partner in all his flip-flopping.

[Luca Blight]

Luca, if Tchill is scum then he deliberately chose not to NK me in order to wifom the crap out of my claim. If he's scum, he knows i'm town and it's probably a PR in any case. He then has to come into D2 to push me, and he will have a lot of dirt in his ISO going the next days for pushing a mislynch on a town PR.

He could opt to kill the threat that is Ali, and wait to kill me the next day but I strongly doubt scum would actively try to mislynch me.
That comes from (frustrated) town a LOT more then scum.

He seemingly wasn't even aware of your claim until D2, and if there is a Mafia roleblocker then that's ample reason to keep you alive.

[Luca Blight]

I hate to keep uing PoE, but unless the scumteam literally is A50/Uzi, which seems way too easy, then the only other player I'm doubtful over is Tchill.

[Tchill13]

Oh Idk... You could be wrong about one of the players that are active. Like you were about flippy.

I've played pretty shit honestly. It comes from frustration more so than anything else. Lot of misreps. Like I said Luca icon was alis last scum team when it was Luca luv.

All I'm saying is when town is this confused it's usually due to active town chasing active town.

I'd bet the game 1 scum is in A50/LUV.

Then 1 scum in probably datisi/klick.

That is my 100 percent unbiased read of the game.

Any other shit I've given out has had ample amounts of frustration in it.

Icon isn't gonna claim cop d1.

Luca isn't gonna push a scum TEAM d1 when he could have just pushed flippy

(obviously this is from my perspective)

Datisi cooouuuld be scum here. There's scum motivation in laying back, letting others do the work and approaching afterwards.

Klick cooouuuld be scum here, but that read is mainly due to his lack of activity compared to others. Not his Content. I like his content.

It goes


Icon

Luca (by a smidgen)
Klick
Datisi

LUV

A50

That's it. I'm done flip flopping. I'm actually almost done caring at all because of the lack of activity. Luv responded to the prod with like one post lol. What a joke.

A50 came in with some appeal to emotion defeated attitude. That's why I'd lynch him first.

But I'd bet the game that scum was in A50/LUV.

Sorry for the frustration and the attitude at times. What Icon did is really why I left the site for a year. 1st game back and it's happening again. Pointless lies.

The only thing as frustrating as that is ppl who don't play and that's obviously happening as well.

Lots of frustration that seeped into my game play. Anyway those are my completely 100 percent objective gut/logic reads.

[Iconeum]

Pointless lies.

you are unwilling to consider my perspective. it's not pointless.

[Iconeum]

I mean this is a game of mafia ffs. Lies are to be expected…

A game I recently played had a town player who faked a guilty on his scumread, then got CC'd by someone who cleared that 'guilty' the same night and he was on the speedwagon to Lynchville if it wasn't for me stopping that lynch and townreading the fakeclaim. We proceeded to lynch back to back scums and win the game.

It's all about perspective and how you deal with it.

[Iconeum]

[Tchill13]

Luca, if Tchill is scum then he deliberately chose not to NK me in order to wifom the crap out of my claim. If he's scum, he knows i'm town and it's probably a PR in any case. He then has to come into D2 to push me, and he will have a lot of dirt in his ISO going the next days for pushing a mislynch on a town PR.

He could opt to kill the threat that is Ali, and wait to kill me the next day but I strongly doubt scum would actively try to mislynch me.
That comes from (frustrated) town a LOT more then scum.

FYI... And no offense to Ali... But scum that can completely fool the more famous players on site have it so well off. I tend to keep players like her in game as scum because of the fact that if she thinks I'm town... Just look at how LOUD AND DOMINANT she is. They're all like that. They won't let anyone else do anything once they have their mind made up. And if they're still in late game town gets paranoid and lynches the famous player.

Ppl like that are so useful to scum when they're wrong, but they're famous because they're not usually wrong.

It's a gamble I loooove to take. Because it's an auto win as scum if you keep them in the game and fool them.

[Iconeum]

Ali's a he btw

[Iconeum]

Tchill please don't let events like in this game take away your enjoyment. Embrace it and deal with it. Make the best of it. Find scum. Win games. Much fun

[Iconeum]

Also saying this game isn't active is a bit of a misrep. There's a few players lurking a little, but mostly everyone is playing to a decent or good/great amount.

[Tchill13]

I mean this is a game of mafia ffs. Lies are to be expected…

A game I recently played had a town player who faked a guilty on his scumread, then got CC'd by someone who cleared that 'guilty' the same night and he was on the speedwagon to Lynchville if it wasn't for me stopping that lynch and townreading the fakeclaim. We proceeded to lynch back to back scums and win the game.

It's all about perspective and how you deal with it.

I will never never never agree with your line of thinking when it comes to that, but it's not because I haven't tried to see it from your perspective.

My favorite player here is boonskies and that dude solo gambits and lies as town like he's the one that made up that style of play lol. I've weighed the pros and cons and I just don't agree with it. It's very selfish and egotistical imo.

I'm at the point that I think you did that player a disservice. You won the game, great, but you also encouraged that type of bad play because he did it and was not reprimanded. He'll do it again. Hell probably do it 4 more times and I say at least twice it hurts town to the point of causing them a loss. You stopped it once though so next time town mislynch him after he lies he'll be blaming town because that town wasn't as good as icon was when you town read the fake claim. It's a never ending cycle and it's more harmful to town and its why town don't win like they should on this site.

[Luca Blight]

Another Flippy reference, you really are riding that one all the way to the bank.

To be fair 1739 seems like a more natural thought process, so I'm willing to take a step back from this.

UNVOTE:

I'm feeling pretty good about Klick, perhaps I could be wrong about Datisi (I've generally liked her content and observations recently, but she is a bit on the sidelines which occasionally pings my paranoia).

Hopefully Uzi gets round to claiming soon so we can progress with this.

[Iconeum]

but she is a bit on the sidelines which occasionally pings my paranoia).

the one game i've seen Datisi on the sidelines was scum!datisi tho