Oh don't worry, I still want those questions answered by Mohab, but clearly my vote wasn't doing anything there and I unvoted because I wanted to deep dive the Garmr/Luca interaction.In post 152, Skellen wrote:UNVOTE: Billy
I feel like I have a better grip at reading him with having more insight on his reads and feel a bit better about him, although I feel a bit iffy about him not wanting to be on a "vanity wagon" on page 7 while Mohab hasn't even reacted to his questions yet. Guess that will remain as my most frustrating slot in my notes.
Regarding Garmr/Luca I need to look more closely at it when it's not late in the night, but my first impression after reading through it is that imo Garmr hit a nail with saying that Luca's reasons for scumreading him didn't felt natural. Although I am mostly thinking here of him feeling negative about Garmr's mention of PR stuff and the slayers gambit thing. To me it felt he judged Garmr for that as scum because it doesn't look natural from town yet he didn't really pointed out why that is a scum motivated play. It's imo just bad play, maybe anti-town might be the better term, as both also admitted to (more or less). I mean if it's scum!Garmr I don't see why he brings up arguments that would potentially put the Kraeg push to a halt instead of just keeping it to himself and joining pushing Kraeg. Can you clarify this, Luca? Second paragraph in #134 does seem to be the only thing that comes close to it, but it doesn't really feel comprehensible.
Can you describe what thoughts are surface level and why they are just so I know you aren't parroting Luca?In post 154, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Oh don't worry, I still want those questions answered by Mohab, but clearly my vote wasn't doing anything there and I unvoted because I wanted to deep dive the Garmr/Luca interaction.In post 152, Skellen wrote:UNVOTE: Billy
I feel like I have a better grip at reading him with having more insight on his reads and feel a bit better about him, although I feel a bit iffy about him not wanting to be on a "vanity wagon" on page 7 while Mohab hasn't even reacted to his questions yet. Guess that will remain as my most frustrating slot in my notes.
Regarding Garmr/Luca I need to look more closely at it when it's not late in the night, but my first impression after reading through it is that imo Garmr hit a nail with saying that Luca's reasons for scumreading him didn't felt natural. Although I am mostly thinking here of him feeling negative about Garmr's mention of PR stuff and the slayers gambit thing. To me it felt he judged Garmr for that as scum because it doesn't look natural from town yet he didn't really pointed out why that is a scum motivated play. It's imo just bad play, maybe anti-town might be the better term, as both also admitted to (more or less). I mean if it's scum!Garmr I don't see why he brings up arguments that would potentially put the Kraeg push to a halt instead of just keeping it to himself and joining pushing Kraeg. Can you clarify this, Luca? Second paragraph in #134 does seem to be the only thing that comes close to it, but it doesn't really feel comprehensible.
And if you're frustrated by my slot, you're not alone. I made 2 out of 4 LYLOs in my first 4 games. And it's probably because scum recognizes that I do weird things that can get scum read.
As for the Garmr/Luca interaction, I feel weird. I think Luca's initial reason for voting Garmr was weak, but I feel like the way the interaction played out made Luca look good and Garmr look bad. I also played a game (unsure of Luca's alignment in that game so not AI) where he did a 1v1 then backed off similarly on D1. Maybe he rolled scum in both games, but it also could be a playstyle thing.
I also realized that most of why I was townreading Garmr was his defense of a surface level scummy Kraeg. Now I think this is the only read of his that didn't feel surface level, and when I re-read it I realized he didn't commit to a read. In 98, he said he would set it to the side and come back to it. Then he did the 1 on 1 with Luca. I originally couldn't see scum motivation in coming out the gate defending Kraeg for surface level scummy play. But now I can think of 2 reasons, (I will give them later Skellen), but for now, I would like to hold them back a bit. I agree with Luca that most of Garmr's reads were surface level as I said, outside of Kraeg. I also think that Garmr got mad defensive when he was getting pressured by Luca and that was remarkably different from how he had reacted to Norwegian's early vote.
VOTE: Garmr
Can I ask a favour and don't answer the question for billy I want to sort him because I already figured out your scum.In post 156, Luca Blight wrote:Billy, you can’t talk about ongoing games. This is a really important thing to remember.
Traveling home atm so will respond to stuff in an hour or two
I thought i kept this vague enough that I didn't violate the rule. And I specifically said it wasn't ai so it wouldn't spoil. Shit, if I messed this up I'm sorry.In post 156, Luca Blight wrote:Billy, you can’t talk about ongoing games. This is a really important thing to remember.
Traveling home atm so will respond to stuff in an hour or two
Whoops that was from my Hydra. Wow I'm really messing up.In post 158, Unstuck in Time wrote:I thought i kept this vague enough that I didn't violate the rule. And I specifically said it wasn't ai so it wouldn't spoil. Shit, if I messed this up I'm sorry.In post 156, Luca Blight wrote:Billy, you can’t talk about ongoing games. This is a really important thing to remember.
Traveling home atm so will respond to stuff in an hour or two
Ok so you do understand the ones surface ones were nulls there's a reason they are nulls.In post 160, Billy Pilgrim wrote:@Garmr - it's probably fair to say I parroted Luca there. I think your Kraeg comment showed you working through it. The Skellen read was surface mostly, but it was null so I guess that's not gonna be in depth. The Luca read wasn't surface, I think the logic was off, but it wasn't surface. So that's a fair defense from you, you brought up 4 reads (Kraeg, Skellen, Emperor, and Luca.). 2 were in depth and 2 were a bit more surface but the surface ones were nulls.
Oh I didn't leave Mohab behind just you post more informative with your posts so I thought you could provide more content to read. I deal with low info players differently after being stung by them multiple times. It's best to look at actions over a period and when they act.In post 162, Billy Pilgrim wrote:I messed up here, clearly, and it's why I admitted it in 160. I thought I had more reasons when I posted, but I read it back and I clearly didn't. I agree that there's a reason your surface reads would be nulls and you accurately grouped them.
I agree that that's not fair to paint someone as only having surface level reads in such a case. And would I find the person painting them in that light as scummy? I don't know. As for why I echoed it, I think it's probably because I was persuaded by him in 139 because I think you missed the point he was trying to make and he mentioned again that you had surface level reads. I think I got primed to see them that way. I definitely have this problem with people I town-read, and I need to fight it better, because I'm easily pocketable.
I think you misinterpreted his point but I don't think that makes you scum. I am interested in why you went after me and Luca so hard and left Mohab alone. I'm also now interested in Flippy, because he sheeped onto Luca pretty easily.
I found this post hollow and some what text book response. Do you see the same thing as me or is there substance I missed somewhere?In post 94, Luca Blight wrote:Catching-up....(striked the stuff that has been answered/is no longer relevant)
27 -I'm struggling to follow why this is scummy?
31 -Do you still find Profii scummy, or did his response cause you to reconsider?
35 -Do you consider these to be AI questions? If you're 'not a fan' of Norwegianboy, why not place a vote on him yourself here?
Skellen's opening seems decent, and her thoughts in 41 mirror my own.
42 - This seems fair enough. Early town-lean on Norwegianboy.
46 - Decent thought-process from Billy, early town-lean here as well.
56 - I can relate to this. Posting a naked RVS vote as scum is actually quite a ballsy thing to do.
63, 64 - This is just BS, shading people based on V/LA's right at the start of the game and during a weekend. Billy has even been contributing despite his V/LA, and I had just announced I would catch up Tomorrow, which I am fulfilling now.
65, 66, 67 - This feels Townie.
-the reason you get waves is because your answer doesn't satisfy me.In post 168, Luca Blight wrote:- You're repeatedly missing the point. I never said all your reads are surface level, and having surface level reads isn't even a crime in itself early doors. My point was that it seemed you were compensating for that in the Kraeg 'deliberation', which seemed forced for the reasons I've already stated.
- I've not consistently painted anything as scummy, I made my point, which I stand by, and then have answered wave after wave of attacks from yourself about it.
-I've never said I have a real case,it was a starting point to a scumread. Just like my Skellen vote wasn't massively meaningful - it was a starting point, very much subject to later behavior.
- The first time I saw it I didn't even know what you were talking about with regards to the Slayer's gambit. Everything that pinged me came about after my original catch-up post.
I'm not getting into this 1v1 with you. If you are Town then take a deep breath, calm down and drop this so others can't just coast off the back of it. If you're scum then continue digging yourself a hole, because it won't end well for you.
I like jokes lol. Me pushing you is forcing people to take have opinions and take sides. The more events like kreag, you vs I ect the better.If you are Town then take a deep breath, calm down and drop this so others can't just coast off the back of it. If you're scum then continue digging yourself a hole, because it won't end well for you.
. Scum will have to react to it and there's guaranteed to be one scum on my wagon since my actions are pretty decisive and I generate a lot of information purpose.. If you get lynched, I lynched scum and that's a win for me. Why can't you get a read on people while being in the lime light? It's only 2 pages through it's not like we been going at it for ages so I don't get why your so eager to back off?In post 171, Luca Blight wrote:Since when do I need a 'real case' to vote someone early in the game?
I'm pulling away from it because I've had many situations like this in the past and rarely does something good come from repeatedly attacking each other with wall posts.
I can see your reaction from both perspectives. I used to play in a similar way as Town where I'd 1v1 someone for the hell of it, mainly out of ego rather than actually believing the other person was definitely scum (I don't believe your confidence in your SR on me, regardless of your alignment). I could also see you being angry scum getting frustrated at feeling 'unfairly' scumread and getting ready for war. I've been in both of these positions myself.
As I said, you can continue doing whatever you want,but I'm taking a step back because I want to get a read on everyone,not just you
So in response to me voting you you provided a vote not backed by a real case but continue to defend the reasoning despite you acknowledging it's not good.Since when do I need a 'real case' to vote someone early in the game?