Newbie 1951 (Day 4)

[skitter30]

also reminder that the gamestate is weirdly stalled again

[skitter30]

*reminder to me, i need to mull over what this indicates

[Nexus]

Hectic has replaced Sushi Martyr. Deadline will have 48 hours added to it. Deadline is now at 6pm BST on Sunday 8th September 2019 (expired on 2019-09-08 18:00:00).

[teacher]

Welcome hectic.

@skit for me it indicates we all were done after a long weeekebd. I know I crashed out.

Prodge as well, content tonight.

[Hectic]

Oh no. What have I done.

I'll try catching up later tonight, but no promises that it won't take a couple of months.

A question, do people want me to voice my thoughts every few pages while catching up, or to just voice my overall thoughts after I completely catchup? The first approach would be quite spammy and might take up a page or two. The second would have less thoughts though as I'll probably forget stuff.

For now though, I'll come in with a strong claim of Town Goon, and let any potential of whatever PR role I may hold to be a mystery.

[Selynee]

However you want. Though I think a page or two in this game wouldn't be a problem.

[teacher]

Definitely spam pls

[Hectic]

Really sorry everyone, but I'm in far too many games right now, so I'm gonna have to sub out of this one. I have thoroughly enjoyed my time with everyone here, and it was great bantering with the likes of emps and Sushi Martyr.

But the pressure from rolling Rolecop was just far too stressful for me to handle, so I'd like apologise to my scum partner,

teacher

, and to the mafiascum community as a whole for my disgraceful act here.

Don't scumread my replacement for this please.

@mod:

Requesting replacement.

[teacher]

???

Also game specific rule 3 is a recommended read.

[Nexus]

Please hold whilst I discuss something with PenguinPower

[Nexus]

Please hold whilst I discuss something with PenguinPower

Carry on. Searching for a hectic replacement

[teacher]

I have arrived at my solve and have many thoughts. But tonigjtfs date night so it will be later.

[teacher]

um you had like a 10 page emotional/aggressive 1v1 with him at the end of day1 that directly influenced the fact that he got mislynched the next day
so i'm not entirely sure it's accurate to say that you didn't push mena that hard
or that you just went along?

you were townreading him for ~quite a long while~ day1, to the point that i said that i wanted to wagon him and you told me that he was off the table and that i needed to compromise elsewhere
so i don't entirely agree with this characterization of your push on him, and dont' like that you're negating your accountability/responsibility/culpubility for it by sayign that 'you don't think you pushed him that hard' and that you just 'went along' with it

I think my Menalque thoughts deserve their own post, so I’m kinda copying this into my iso to remind me but also offering an off the cuff response in the fifteen minutes before my wife arrives.

I NEVER townread Menalque by his play (@Menalque spectating, I suppose the answer to 65 is 1/3). I scummed him fairly hard, to the point I avoided his wagons - on Fark) and voted him. I explained this in 417. I took him off the D1 table not for anything he did but because I found Farks leap on to him so scummy. That’s why I said we needed to compromise (on scum!creeper, so again I have to ask you what the scum motivation would be to block a town!Mena lynch in order to push my partner??).

As for the fact he got lynched, I dont think it was the 5 page (not 10) 1v1 on pages 40-45 that “directly influenced” his lynch. That lynch was already predetermined. Page 36 is a good example of this - after the claims, Fark says Menalque-creeper is confirmed as the solve (NMSA had previously called it). I actually pushed against it at first, but then went along all on that page. I think the day 2 lynch was pretty set there, even before the 1v1.

As for the 1v1 itself, I think I should have done better to realize Menalque was town and spewed so by creeper. But you’ll notice almost all of my contributions in that period were to ask him to articulate exactly what he promised. He kept complaining that I had somehow deprived him of time, while I kept pointing out that he had all the time he needed - the thread wasn’t locked for over 12 hours. Again, I’m not really sure why a player of your caliber sees that kind of emotion (and you’re right it was emotional) and decides it’s scum motivated to prolong the attention of having someone who is pretty certain to be confirmed town calling me scum repeatedly? Why wouldn’t ....

Wife arrived

[emps]

are you kidding me

ugghhhh ill probs prodge till a hectic replacement is found...

[skitter30]

Really sorry everyone, but I'm in far too many games right now, so I'm gonna have to sub out of this one. I have thoroughly enjoyed my time with everyone here, and it was great bantering with the likes of emps and Sushi Martyr.

But the pressure from rolling Rolecop was just far too stressful for me to handle, so I'd like apologise to my scum partner,

teacher

, and to the mafiascum community as a whole for my disgraceful act here.

Don't scumread my replacement for this please.

@mod:

Requesting replacement.

oh dear

[skitter30]

Fair nuff. It’s my best read. I’ll go creep, but I think Menalques off my D1 list.

Idk how I felt about selnyees question to creeper. It stuck to me but not for any reasons I can come up w. How bout you?

i think i understood this as you townreading him @teacher but maybe i misread this; at the time iirc i very much wanted to wagon him so when you took him off the table i took that to mean you were townreading him, and that's what stuck in my mind

[skitter30]

As for the 1v1 itself, I think I should have done better to realize Menalque was town and spewed so by creeper. But you’ll notice almost all of my contributions in that period were to ask him to articulate exactly what he promised. He kept complaining that I had somehow deprived him of time, while I kept pointing out that he had all the time he needed - the thread wasn’t locked for over 12 hours. Again, I’m not really sure why a player of your caliber sees that kind of emotion (and you’re right it was emotional) and decides it’s scum motivated to prolong the attention of having someone who is pretty certain to be confirmed town calling me scum repeatedly? Why wouldn’t ....

i don't know if it was inherently scum-motivated, and that's not really what my point in that post was either

what i said is that i believe that you were at least in part responsible for the mena wagon, and that i feel like you were downplaying your part in it by sayign things like 'you didn't push him that hard' and that 'you just went along with it', because i objectively i don't think that's what happened, and it feels revisionist of you to describe your interaction with him at the end of the day that way

[skitter30]

he does a lot of the coaching thing too

like what do you mean by this

is this referring to the fact that i coached kani? i kinda just gave them advice, does that count as coaching? i thought coaching was more like "hey copy paste this into thread and get townread lol : [thing here]"

eh by coaching i mean more giving advice, not necessarily like literally writing posts for him

[skitter30]

ehhh actually a pretty similar progression on epic imo

Thing is if emps was going to encourage votes on his partner so early and he'd know the PR claim (assuming they discussed at least this) would more probably be CC'ed, I think he'd at least want to be on him when that happens...voting for Mena there doesn't make much sense. Unless EC really butchered the plan (as in not paying attention to where we were and how many votes there were).

yeah i kinda agree

[emps]

prodge again.
imo the gamestate is weirdly stalled because i feel like all of us are scumreading the sushi slot so we are all kinda akwardly waiting for a replacement

[teacher]

I agree. My solve is sushi>skitt. Going back to 1041 put emps pretty off the table for me. I didn’t like how skit equivocated on that and on me - sorting scum/town should have been the point of any post/analysis. 1941 is pretty different than I recollected, and there are a couple other posts that I don’t think scum!emps makes.

I kinda wanted emps to not prodge but take a position so that I could draw an even harder line. I will say, though, that I want people to engage not just on sushi but the other lynch. Like I still think if people’s solce is sushi>me it should be me today. .

[Nexus]

popsofctown replaces Hectic.

[popsofctown]

I've read all the even pages between one and thirty, all the odd pages between one and thirty, none of the pages numbered with a whole number between 31 and 54, and all of the pages whose prime factorization is 5*11

1357 is yeah super problematic post, we need some site culture shift about the "replace in silence" rule on par with how well the don't-talk-about-ongoing-games is well understood; there's this nasty murky area where you may care about whether your slot wins but maybe you don't, you won't be there? and you can post wtf WIFOMY garbage like claiming scum as part of an impossible scumteam. I was reading through my iso the other game and found one of the very few games I replaced, and I townspewed a lot by putting a lot of effort into a final readslist. Equally unfair, to the advantage of my slot instead. I didn't understand any better, I think we didn't have rule 3 yet.
Site culture often starts in the newbie queue, so I want to say: regardless of who flips what this game, don't do 1357 in your games.

I should be caught up on the game in about ~15 hours.

[popsofctown]

Ok I bookmarked the thread progress

[popsofctown]

I'm not going to read anymore tonight because it's late in the evening for me. I'll be finishing tomorrow morning. I do want to start on an overview of my thoughts from page 1-30. Fair play, I didn't have a role PM while reading page 1-30, Nexus just now instantiated me. I usually try to read fewer pages than that in advance, but I had to fit this game into an alcove in my schedule this way.

I will give some player by player thoughts on what I read from page 1-30 though, which I consider less degraded by drowsiness and/or alcohol.

emps - This is my pet scumread, I found it remarkable how often the opposite was dogmatically stated throughout page 1-30. Many players seemed somehow familiar with his meta, but I saw plenty of little things that seemed scummy in a vacuum with this slot. If he remains my top scumread like I expect, 30 pages is more than half, yeah, I'll probably try to sell you all on emps as an alternative wagon, and after that depending on how Sushi Martyr played page 31-54 your reactions will range from "I don't like your case", to "no case you presented could have mattered enough", to "I see now emps was the deepwolf, now we win, gosh replacements are kind of unfair to scum sometimes", I was going to say I don't get to participate much in some of those scenarios and lament that but geez it's a short tenure for all of those scenarios, but what I'm getting to is, that is pretty fine for replacing in page umpteen of a newbie game that's about what you sign up for.
It's not going to be positional or associative I tell you that.

EpicCreeper06- this guy would have escaped me, good job guys. I don't have much experience with the, I don't know how to do analysis excuse for getting deeper into a game. I am pretty good at catching out some of the other excuses for not getting into a game. I think.

Farkran- dead cleared slot but the question is, when -should- each person know better versus when -did- each person know better. Trying hard not to skip chapters in this book I'm selling you here with some thoughts on emps. skitter had this right pretty much from the start. Teacher had it wrong, but in a believable way suggesting conviction.

Menalque- I would have been likely to mislynch this guy too day 1, but with the special time traveling powers of replacing in I think I would have been less likely to do it if I reselected your day 2 lynch with magic because some of the pivoting and wagon movement day 1 doesn't look like Menalque is scum with Farkran as a greenwagon and Creeper as a redwagon. I think viewing the info from a later perspective + maybe he did scummy stuff later made this a thing that could happen.

Nexus - I have been like vaguely aware of Nexus as a site mod for longer than I can remember and have like vague positive feelings about him without remembering any specific details, including whether I've played with, against him, or under his modding, I'd wager all three happened.

NMSA - his avatar is -not- cute

Apparently based on post 1 he was put in a gamestate where he would have to out both masons to claim on behalf of Farkran? This is hilarious

Selynee - low content total. It all sounds so town motivated but not town machinated. Like, really just putting a streamer up and testing the wind a lot of times, not super high impact. But I don't usually drink in the low-info paranoia when there's a slot with fewer posts but those posts seem pretty townie. Is this player dead? I'm not 100% maybe this was the n2 kill. No wait, NMSA and Farkran were the NKs. So this is still alive. Don't lynch this.

skitter30- So this is the slot had Farkran the earliest. I felt like her defense of Farkran was occasionally oversimplified and glossed over some of the details thought, rather than digging into the real nitty gritty of why teacher and Farkran didn't see eye to eye.

Furhtermore, the timing was poor. Farkran's posting was rather monolithic but she had this progression on it, when little had changed.

I kind of want to BoP her, but not even the nasty, meta-wide, albatross around the neck kind, a much more localized BoP: she demonstrated an empathy and understanding necessary for reading the Farkran slot correctly later in the day, yet voted with the wagon initially. This is the only player I had to stop and take pause on during this writeup, I went back and checked, she actually made a full player-list readslist at some point, and listed Farkran at the very bottom, Farkran 2nd or 3rd to bottom + some lingering concerns about whether some of this stuff is stylistic + yeah I'll vote my 2nd or 3rd highest scumread it's day 1 there's a wagon there, that would have been more plausible. Confirmation bias is, unfortunately, town indicative, but she somehow played day 1 unfettered. And that maybe outweighs a tone that just feels town as she moves from post to post adressing them - in that regard she pretty quickly matched this meta Menalque alluded to that skitter would always convince everyone she's town.

I'd say this is my second highest scumread right now.

Sushi Martyr - Her page 1-30 is not great. But I remember looking at the OP when I was on like, page 12 or something and thinking, Creeper is scum, oh, Sushi might actually be town then. They don't pair together particularly well. When a player stays very reserved and doesn't take many stances, it's often scum indicative. Pretty sure that's how Vi caught me my first game as SK. But this is a little different from SK - a scumteam with two slots, taking few positions, gets more and more unlikely. The quota tends to feel shared.
Her progression on Farkran is much more genuine than Skitter's, even though Skitter may have achieved a more protown outcome with more proactivity. But we're not out to make friends, reward proactivity, or avenge mislynches, or any bonus objectives people ever make up in a game of mafia, we're here to lynch scum.

teacher - This is largely not one of the scummier slots for me. He really didn't get where Farkran is coming from and shows enough of his work that I believe he believes that. His interaction with other slots seems pretty genuine too, though he's probably in the pile of people I think are not reading emps correctly. The guy fawkes mask avatar gives me problems developing a read ngl. He's not so far from null that the upcoming pages can't persuade me but if Nexus enforced Pine-replacement-style and I had to vote today he'd probably just not be someone I'd want to vote in a 5p with one scum remaining. (whereas Selynee would be more of an outright townread).
Throughout the thread he engages people and I didn't catch him slip up and emulate doing town "homework" in this way without putting his heart in it.


ok

this was a bad idea and I better sleep now

this has been drunkpops