Mini Normal 2095 - Game Over!

[Iconeum]

GIVE ME TWO GODTURKEY DAYS FTS

hey dude did you see everyone unvoting? you've been granted your goddamn time but are AGAIN complaining about other players talking game-relevant material?

[gobbledygook]

Ty

[Chemist1422]

VC 2.6

Klick (1)

- Datisi

Not Voting (6)

- Lil Uzi Vert, Tchill13, Iconeum, gobbledygook, Luca Blight, Klick

With 7 alive, 4 is majority.

Countdown until Day 2 end: (expired on 2019-09-11 17:30:00)

Notes

hi how are all of you doing

[Klick]

hi chemist

[Tchill13]

So this guy is gonna be kicking and screaming if we don't follow him after giving him his time because he already comes off as the type with an ego...

Klick where are you at with reads? Has anything changed?

LUV site flaked and we can't get a replacement for that slot?

[Tchill13]

I bet chemist is having A TIME watching this shit show lol.

[Datisi]

These two posts were made back to back. Luca agrees to lynch either A50 or LUV.

Spoiler:

Icon and Klick are near enough conf-Town for me; I’m not considering their lynches for the foreseeable future.

Today we must Lynch either A50 or Uzi - not only is there a high chance at least one of them is scum, but the thought of them both being alive during a LYLO situation is hard to bear.

A50 clearly has no intent to participate in the future, nor will he replace-out, so I’m struggling to see what alternative we have but to Lynch him here.

Uzi is at least continuing to produce some content, although it is minimal.

Feels like flipping a coin, but I ultimately think A50 has to go.

VOTE: Almost50

This was the only part where LUV was discussed between Luca's previous and next posts.

Spoiler:

Honestly team is probs luca/luv

This was the last post in which Alisae gave reads. Does it make you rethink your LUV read?

If A50 (or his slot ) end up being lynched today, and he flips Town, who are your next suspects? Datisi/Luca?

...a tiny bit, actually. I hadn't seen that.
My main reason for townreading LUV is Billy's play and I struggle to see myself changing my mind on that. But with that post in mind LUV seems to at least have motive to kill Alisae.

I'd almost certainly reevaluate tomorrow in that situation, but yes, that's probably where I'd initially lean.

And then came this. For absolutely no reason LUV is suddenly Town, and Luca's willing to lynch me.

Spoiler:

Looking back, I'm not feeling Uzi as scum. I think Klick may be right regarding Billy.

Still not sure what to make of the A50 slot.

I would be willing to lynch Datisi today.

Luca, I'm gonna need your input here.
In top posts you agree to an A50/LUV lynch pool. In the bottom ones you give up on LUV and are willing to lynch me.
LUV wasn't discussed much between the two posts - Klick said he didn't see Ali's last call-out of the scum team, and he said most of the TR stems from Billy's play.

What made you consider LUV to be Town here?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So my last post being almost a day ago means I site flaked?

I'll be catching up tonight chief. Burned all my energy on getting role PMs sent out.

[Datisi]

For reference, here's a decent summary of my townreads:

Icon is town. This game doesn't have just a Night 3 Bodyguard for town power, and I'm not going to believe any further claims.
I'm pretty sold on the fact that the A50 slot is town, especially after gobble's claim. A50's play/replace-out straight-up just doesn't make sense as scum.
Billy didn't know that scum didn't have daytalk. And even if he did successfully fool us with that, I don't think he would have replaced out (and continued to be active on-site, at that).
You [Tchill] didn't realise Icon claimed Cop D1. You also came away from that whole situation with a townread on Icon, and I struggle to see that coming from scum.
With Luca, I can't say things are as solid. But he feels like town, especially today. He's made logical conclusions that would also be rather inconvenient for him to make as scum. (why immediately lean town on Icon's actions today? why buy into my poorly-explained reasoning for townreading A50/LUV? it's not necessary.)

Okay, here's the problems I have with your reads. They all seem weak and forced. They all seem to be based on reasoning that can easily be thrown away upon my Green flip. From my pov, I can see scum!Klick giving out reads like these, TRing everyone other than the lynchbait in order to avoid associates. And once his sole SR flips Green, he can easily throw away any TR (other than Icon, who likely won't even live to see Day 3) he needs to and then not seem suspicious.

"A50 wouldn't have replaced out if he was scum." Not buying that. I can buy the slot cc'ing itself being NAI (if A50 was realy that spiteful), but not as a Town thing. And you were literally the one to call out A50's play in 1772, 1773 and 1775. You don't get to call out his play as scummy and then later say that his play doesn't make sense from scum!A50.

Billy's TR's main reasoning is that he didn't know about the daytalk, and that scum wouldn't replace out where he did. I've asked you if the fact Ali called out a LUV/Luca team makes you reconsider, you said a bit then dropped it. Again, I'm not buying replacements as an AI thing, and I believe scum!Billy would've been able to pass that Towntest. LUV hasn't done anything to be TR fmpov, and you said so when you agreed that most of the TR is Billy's play.

Tchill didn't realize Icon claimed cop Day 1. This is such weak reasoning that can easily be thrown away by "oh guess he didn't see it in scum PT", especially if you start pushing A50 as his partner (since scum!A50 could've not even told him about that, because he's so spiteful). And what else is there to do than to get away from the situation TRing Icon? He was the sole claimed PR. The fact that Tchill came away from that TRing Icon is NAI imo.

Luca "feels" Town. Again, a read that could easily be thrown away if need be. Btw, Luca did an assessment of Billy in 1431, and concluded that Billy's play was more null than Town. And you never even challenged him on that, even though you did later say that Billy was obvtown. In fact, neither of you challenged each other there (already asked Luca that in 2156).

[Klick]

Thank you for responding, Datisi.

Okay, here's the problems I have with your reads. They all seem weak and forced. They all seem to be based on reasoning that can easily be thrown away upon my Green flip. From my pov, I can see scum!Klick giving out reads like these, TRing everyone other than the lynchbait in order to avoid associates. And once his sole SR flips Green, he can easily throw away any TR (other than Icon, who likely won't even live to see Day 3) he needs to and then not seem suspicious.

This seems far more complicated and unnecessary than just lynching A50 or LUV today. Particularly A50, whose wagon I started and whom I hadn't given any townread on up until I unvoted him. Unless your theory is that I'm scum with A50, but you seem to be more strongly implying Klick/Luca.
Like, scum!Klick would have been in a fine situation a few IRL days ago when we were all gearing up to lynch A50 or LUV.

"A50 wouldn't have replaced out if he was scum." Not buying that. I can buy the slot cc'ing itself being NAI (if A50 was realy that spiteful), but not as a Town thing. And you were literally the one to call out A50's play in 1772, 1773 and 1775. You don't get to call out his play as scummy and then later say that his play doesn't make sense from scum!A50.

That's a pretty strong oversimplification of my reasoning for A50 being town. The big thing is that A50 could have really easily given more content in the tight situation he was in, but instead he gave little. Because town!A50 read the game and gave what he saw, which wasn't much. Go read A50's ISO and tell me that's scum faking half-assed reads.
And yes, I think the replace-out was town. He was upset that we were trying to make him play the game. That's not a scum mindset when you no longer have stake in the game.

Billy's TR's main reasoning is that he didn't know about the daytalk, and that scum wouldn't replace out where he did. I've asked you if the fact Ali called out a LUV/Luca team makes you reconsider, you said a bit then dropped it. Again, I'm not buying replacements as an AI thing, and I believe scum!Billy would've been able to pass that Towntest. LUV hasn't done anything to be TR fmpov, and you said so when you agreed that most of the TR is Billy's play.

Alright, this one I'm going to challenge you on. I have a few problems here.

'Again, I'm not buying replacements as an AI thing.' This reads like you're dismissing it without thought simply because it's in the same vein as the A50 read.

Why

do you disagree with me?
You didn't believe scum!Billy could pass the towntest when it was happening. In fact, you were the other person pushing it to happen/saying he was town for it at the time. Why bother doing it in the first place if you're now going to completely dismiss it? Because the only answer I can think of is because it was convenient for you to let go of your previous townread on Billy.

LUV's play has been bad, and he had potential motive to kill Alisae. Neither of those things invalidate the reasons I townread Billy's play.

(FWIW, I've now basically come to terms with the fact that scum probably saw Alisae's post that looked like a protective crumb and that's why they killed her.)

Tchill didn't realize Icon claimed cop Day 1. This is such weak reasoning that can easily be thrown away by "oh guess he didn't see it in scum PT", especially if you start pushing A50 as his partner (since scum!A50 could've not even told him about that, because he's so spiteful).

'oh guess he didn't see it in scum PT' is a terrible rebuttal. That doesn't happen.

And what else is there to do than to get away from the situation TRing Icon? He was the sole claimed PR. The fact that Tchill came away from that TRing Icon is NAI imo.

We're talking in the first few pages after Icon's full claim, when Tchill decided Icon's claim was so ridiculous that it had to come from town, while others were scumreading him.

Luca "feels" Town. Again, a read that could easily be thrown away if need be. Btw, Luca did an assessment of Billy in 1431, and concluded that Billy's play was more null than Town. And you never even challenged him on that, even though you did later say that Billy was obvtown. In fact, neither of you challenged each other there (already asked Luca that in 2156).

This isn't a rebuttal of the reasons I gave for Luca-town. Look beyond the first two sentences.

[Datisi]

Sure, it's more complicated, but I've twice given out my tinfoil theory of "Klick saw that he's in my scumpool, and he figured I would've turned against him in LyLo tomorrow, which would be especially bad if I had gotten confirmed during the night."

How is him giving little to no content here different than in the other game you had linked?

I'll go check over when is it exactly that Billy replaced out tomorrow.
And yes, I was the one to force that test and trust me I regret it. At the time, I thought it would be a nice starting point for a Billy read which would then keep developing. But obviously that wasn't the case.

Still doesn't explain why you didn't challenge Luca on it at all.

I think someone already gave that rebuttal/thought (was it Luca? Fk I don't know anymore) and I don't think you've challenged it?

And I think those two things would make sense if scum!Luca, especially with Klick as his partner. He could TL Icon immediately for towncred, since he could guess Town doesn't have much power (due to Mafia's own roles), especially if they agreed to initiate a massclaim. And buying into your explanation ties in to the tinfoil theory.

Also can you please answer Tchill's question? If you're still TLing these 5, and you unvoted me, I have no idea what your reads are.

[Luca Blight]

Datisi, I re-read Billy’s ISO and came to believe he really did Townslip.

I’m about to go V/la until Monday so if anyone has anything to ask me then now’s the time.

[Datisi]

Do you still think me and Tchill are likely partners? And do you believe Tchill would be bussing me Day 1, csonce he was gunning for my lynch for a while?

[Datisi]

Since*
And were you the one to mention the possibility of scum!Tchil overlooking his partner telling him about Icon's claim? I honestly don't remember anymore.

[Luca Blight]

Do you still think me and Tchill are likely partners? And do you believe Tchill would be bussing me Day 1, csonce he was gunning for my lynch for a while?

I still need to reassess as I said but right now my feeling is that you’re not partners. I’m coming round to the idea that you could both actually be Town, which means I need to reconsider literally all my reads, apart from Icon who I’m still considering conftown.

I wouldn’t put bussing past Tchill even on D1, but the times he was actually hard pushing you you actually weren’t that likely to be lynched, as I remember it. During the period of most pressure on you he was absent from the game due to being sick (I’m not suggesting he faked this btw). So yes I don’t see why his D1 play doesn’t mean you could be partners, especially when he flipped his read on you based on Ali’s reads.

[Tchill13]

im not one to bus (pointless coming from me ik)

I like that you're reassessing though. the game is won in klick/datisi/A50/LUV.

If A50 is scum town only have 1pr unless town is lying (please dont) i'd go datisi/LUV/Klick here.

If klick is scum id be more likely to lynch luv/datisi/a50 in that order.

if datisi is scum then I'd lean to A50 first.

If LUV is scum klick is the next immediate lynch.

[Luca Blight]

Since*
And were you the one to mention the possibility of scum!Tchil overlooking his partner telling him about Icon's claim? I honestly don't remember anymore.

Yes, I said this in response to Klick’s question. I do think the fact Tchill didn’t know of the claim at the start of D2 lends itself to the idea of him being Town, but I don’t believe it’s cut and dry; Tchill has shown himself (and admitted himself) to be susceptible to overlooking/missing certain things, like when Klick directly asked Icon about it early D2 and Tchill thought Klick was actually soft-claiming himself. I don’t think it’s unbelievable that Tchill’s partner could make passing reference to it in the assumption that Tchill already knew of the claim, and Tchill misunderstood what they were referring to.

[Datisi]

Okay, my memory still somewhat servers.

This is also what's bugging me about Klick. When I brought up that point a bit earlier, he said "scum!Tchill not seeing that in the PT is a terrible rebuttal". But if you say that in response to Klick's question, I find it odd that he didn't call it terrible then as well. (unless I'm misremembering)

[Datisi]

@mod, I'll be VLA on Sunday

[Luca Blight]

V/LA until Monday

[Iconeum]

VLA weekend

[Iconeum]

i mean after today, but i thought that fits in nicely and this gives gobbley the chance to solve the game for us

[Tchill13]

Yeah I wouldn't exactly believe he's gonna solve the game for us.

[Datisi]

The post where Luca brings up the possibility of scum!Tchill missing his partner telling him about Icon's claim, and Klick's post after that. (Why did it take me like 20 minutes to find this, I honestly thought the post was made way way earlier...)

Spoiler:

I get where you’re coming from Klick and I’ve had the same thoughts myself which have been causing me niggling doubts about Tchill. I’m purely speculating here, but it could be that his partner made reference to it that he overlooked/misunderstood. For example, at the start of the day you were asking Icon directly about his result, and Tchill thought you were soft claiming yourself. Or it could be that he just decided that Ali should be killed and his partner went along with it? Tchill is certainly more assertive with his opinions than Datisi. I’m more confident in my Datisi scumread, but she has been very willing to Lynch A50, so that doesn’t sit great with me.

Spoiler:

Tchill, I'm still putting the pieces together. I think Datisi/Luca is a team that has a decent amount of equity, but I'm by no means confident and I'm not going to sell you a case on Luca when I'm not confident in him being scum. He's been fairly townie today in his own right.

I'm not claiming my reads are infallible. In fact, I've gone wrong townreading at least one person - right now I have Datisi as likely scum largely by PoE (and her play today hasn't been hot), but then I have five townreads so I've definitely screwed up somewhere. But I think Datisi is the best lynch today.


Icon is town. This game doesn't have just a Night 3 Bodyguard for town power, and I'm not going to believe any further claims.
I'm pretty sold on the fact that the A50 slot is town, especially after gobble's claim. A50's play/replace-out straight-up just doesn't make sense as scum.
Billy didn't know that scum didn't have daytalk. And even if he did successfully fool us with that, I don't think he would have replaced out (and continued to be active on-site, at that).
You didn't realise Icon claimed Cop D1. You also came away from that whole situation with a townread on Icon, and I struggle to see that coming from scum.
With Luca, I can't say things are as solid. But he feels like town, especially today. He's made logical conclusions that would also be rather inconvenient for him to make as scum. (why immediately lean town on Icon's actions today? why buy into my poorly-explained reasoning for townreading A50/LUV? it's not

necessary

.)

Datisi is left. Nothing quite pings me as town in the same way that others have done. Nothing she's done would particularly surprise me coming from scum. And that's why I think she's the best lynch today. She's got the highest scum equity.

He didn't say anything about that, but then again he wasn't discussing Tchill/Datisi. Hmm.

[Iconeum]

Did you not see how I cracked the last game open? Give me time and this is a town win. Didn’t think I would need to explain this to you again xonsidering you came at me for the exact same reason that game

but he promised

no no i'm not playing anymore until he has caught up and solved the game

i have full confidence he has a solve ready, probably based on the massclaim that he invoked