Mini Normal 2098 - Game Over! (Mafia Won)

[NorwegianboyEE]

So my vote on Norwegian is just like this

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

I'm gonna go ahead and sheep Garmr with this. How is profii describing how the game is getting out of RVS an accusation?

I'm quite confused why people are making a huge fuss about this.

That feels like a bit of a misrepresentation, my vote on you wasn't based 'just' on this initial first vote you made. That vote could reasonably be assumed to have been RVS.

It was this following post that made me feel suspicious about you:

Game is already out of RVS after a few posts 'cause of Norwegian.

You claim your vote was just based on RVS, but here in your own words you claim that i had already by that point put us out of RVS. So you were legitimizing your vote on me as genuine long before you suddenly changed your story about the vote having "always been RVS".

[Emperor flippyNips]

I'd like to see those 5 players take a stance on Luca vs Garmr and I will accept any of SvS, SvT, TvT as long as it comes with a rationale

Luca & Garmr what I feel about it huh? :shrug:


I guess TvT but like I said I get scum vibes from Luca, idk what it is. I think it just might be him, cos nothing here really makes me think SCUM

[Emperor flippyNips]

Vote Garmr

I think the PR discussion is scummy. Even if he did it in a game where he's town, that doesn't prove the he's town in this game. It's not like we are in point where PRs have flipped and there is a necessity to discuss scenarios about PRs. The way he tried to identify me as a PR is scummy. A PR discussion would most likely come from scum. Why? because they're the one who's going to look for potential PRs for their nightkill so there's definitely a tendency for scum to open PR discussions. Town would most likely focus on finding scum especially on D1.

tho i don't remember this discussion on pr's I don't think this really tells us he's scum. & now I do get all the talk on the slayer gambit thing. he could of been doing it in that town game to prepare for a scum game. but as you said him doing it when he's town doesn't prove he's town here, it also doesn't make him out to be scum soooo, w/out reading it I say NAI

[Emperor flippyNips]

I think I wanna voodoo vote Emperor here.

[Emperor flippyNips]

Spoiler:

I think you guys will just have to learn to deal with the way i am. Most of my posts are reactive and i usually only point out things that stick out to me. I read everything people say here but i can't be bothered to add my comments to absolutely everything. If you guys think that's scummy then by all means lynch me. If i get mislynched as town in like 5 games maybe people will begin to understand that this is just my personality and it is usually not alignment indicative.

I want you to think about this post. You're basically recognizing that you're playing in a way that the group perceives as bad because you keep getting lynched. Yet your response to that is for the group to change it's perception of you. Why should we? If you keep playing badly, you're either scum or bad town. Why would we want you in LYLO? You're a potential liability there. So if you keep playing badly, the solution from a town perspective is to policy lynch you. That means we Lynch you D1. And we do that because we know it's bad to have you in late game situations. So while you think the site will just have to adjust to you, you may not like the way it adjusts to you. Please stop playing so reactively and start reading. I saw your reads list, care to develop that at all?

I'm not good at analyzing dense posts and creating essays that address each and every point. I'm just gonna say that right now. I still don't think i'm a bad player, so getting policy lynched on day 1 because my playstyle is "different" from the "accepted townie standard" just feels like elitist BS.
I can elaborate on any points you want, just tell me which reads you want me to further elaborate upon and i'll do it.

I have to agree with Norwegian boy here. My style of play is pretty different I tend to get town read then ignored. My reads last game were 100% on the mark yet I got ignored even through the logic was right. It's just people didn't understand it and thought it was bad. It wasn't even caught scum for the wrong reasons as their reasoning for moves like the night kill were the exact ones I said and the motivation as well. I told town they were hunting for protective roles and I was told we don't have enough information to think that, when we did if they were smart enough to pay attention and listen to me.

The group mentality with game play in mafia scum is toxic. People have unique ways of hunting and just because people don't understand it doesn't mean they are wrong. Forcing everyone to play the same neuters the game as well and can take away some those unique traits that people have.

I get some adjustments should be made but it's more a give and take thing instead of some borg assimilation shit.

I agree with all this. play however you want I think the most important thing is to have fun

Spoiler:

[Emperor flippyNips]

VOTE: Emperor

Spoiler:

Let's see if seeing his name in lights brings him back.

Spoiler:

[Emperor flippyNips]

Town

-Billy Pilgram
This is my biggest town read. I can see how his brain ticks, he gets caught up in Luca's post and the flow of it and sheeps. But then he self reflects on it adjusts and comes out with something logical. That's would be some high level scum play and it comes more natural from town.

I don't know what it is that makes me feel really distant from this game. but I feel like billy is town. but something also wants me to say the verdict is still out. I do think he's town tho based off what he's said. maybe I'm just really tired idk :shrug:

Skellen- this was hard to order with my next read but I put it here first. The skellen posts have been logical and in the beginning textbook. But the conclusions they get and the way they hold them selves seem townie and 152 is literally spitting townie at me. Also I think the wagon on them seemed a bit suss and at least one scum on it.

I can normally read Skellen really well in my opinion. (haven't ever experienced her scum game) I don't have a read on her right now tho.

NorwegianboyEE - It's hard to describe in words it's a lot of their personality. Also them standing up to profii about their beliefs made me town read them even more.

want to say town but need to ISO I think. just going thru the game I got nothing on them

Null- town leaning

Mohab- This is pretty much all gut

#NULL

I think likely town, but need to ISO too

-Profii I was originally really keen on this slot being town. Even through I disagreed with their skellen vote I thought it was a good ice breaker. Then they made a good but wrong point about me being scum and I'm like ok they are going to vote me. That didn't happen which puzzled me so I didn't give in to their demands to see if they would vote me. They continued pushing me from the side while keeping their vote off me. I was wondering when they would vote me because at certain points I only had 1 or 2 votes on me. Then they voted NorwegianboyEE and it was for the shit reasoning when they could of gone on me. But I don't think they are scum with Luca Blight.

first is profi a null read? or null-town

Null-
Emperor FlippyNips-Null for reasons only post I didn't like was the oh I'm drunk. It read a little jumpy and defensive but nothing to really scum read.

I dont think you ever answered me on how I was jumpy the first time?
also when was I drunk?

null-scum
Kraeg-Literally god awful the vote on me was trash his actions were so bad but lacked scum motivation. But they lacked town motivation either now I think about it. Might just be a noob scum since they never had a scum game before.

Spoiler:

Scum-
Luca blight- do I need to explain after my 1v1.

maybe. something is telling me to not vote him he’s town. but then there’s that other feeling I was talking about too

[Emperor flippyNips]

okay. I'm tired now, its 2 in the morning. I’ll pick up where I left off later

Spoiler:

also wtf is up with togepi, creeper much

[profii]

I agree that you can attempt to spot team work pre-flip, but in that case would you want to Lynch the one who you thought was the teammate or the one who you thought was scummy first?

The issue with that is that Kraeg has done nothing much really, so nothing to make me go 'that dude is sorting the game he is town' or 'that dude is up to schenanigans he must be scum'
Simultaneously, can't rule him out being scum due to this lack of anything beyond looking at Norge so my thought was let's just say he turns out to be scum the way i described your posts made sense at first, although i guess i didnt fully digest everything and I probably am getting a bit bored of waiting for people so I'm looking for things that aren't really there


that being said, between my last post and now, Kraeg has been back and posted 267

to me that reads that he doesnt want to help us scum hunt, that makes it harder to kill scum and more likely a towny will get mislynched and then killed over night so I am just going to check the VC and I think I'll be putting Kraeg at L-1 in a minute...

[profii]

VOTE: Kraeg

This is L-1 - please be careful!

[Jackal711]

VOTE COUNT 1.7

Mohab500 (1) - Billy Pilgrim
Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (2) - Garmr, Emperor FlippyNips
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -
NorwegianboyEE (1) - Kraeg

L-1

Kraeg (4) - NorwegianboyEE, Mohab500, Skellen, profii
Billy Pilgrim (1) -

Not Voting: Luca Blight

ACTIVITY NOTES:
Luca Blight is V/LA through Monday, Sept 9
Skellen has been prodded.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Friday, September 13th at 10:00 am PDT which is in

(expired on 2019-09-13 10:00:00)

[Billy Pilgrim]

I like Profii's and Skellen's votes in the Kraeg wagon. As I had said, I'm not a fan of Mohab's vote there. I also feel a bit weird about how focused Norwegian and Kraeg have been on each other. I don't want them both in a LYLO situation at all. I also don't see Kraeg working to sort the game so he's in my lynch pool just not my preference at the moment. I don't feel a need to give intent at the moment, because we still have time, but I'm interested to see how he responds to being at L-1.

Kraeg, it's possible that you don't make it to D2, so your last response isn't all that helpful. A few questions: 1) Why are you town? 2) Who are your town reads, and who are your scum reads? 3) What do you think about this wagon?

[Skellen]

Ugh, sorry for the prod.

I have to admit profii's pre-flip case on Billy pinged me a bit, although mostly because I tend to get wary if those are done. Somehow I feel half of the things I learned in the newbie queue get just flushed down the toilet outside of it. lol

I can however see the town motivation behind that given the gamestate and going by what he said in #283 with getting bored with the game, so I think that's a townie point in my reads in his favour.

[Skellen]

I am not sure if I missed something regarding this question; I am sticking these two together because they're my current scumreads. I think it's unlikely they're both scum together. I am just pointing out my thoughts on them for everybody to see.

Yeah nevermind, I forgot how to English and misread your sentence. It makes sense how you originally said it.

Ok, so I get that you thought Garmr was the scummier one in the 1v1 because his tone sounded like coming from caught scum. I would appreciate if you could explain what specific parts suggest so. Also since you think it's either TvT or TvS (with scum!Garmr) I assume you are townreading Luca? (or are you just saying "town" because he is just not scummy to you?) Anyway what I mean is what makes Luca townier to you?

[Skellen]

Luca just reads scum to me idk why. could be ..., his face.

What. o.o

Anyway I think I get what you mean. It's kind of why I want to see more from Luca outside of his 1v1 as there is always the chance someone is just looking bad while getting constantly "tunneled".

[Skellen]

Mohab is a sheep. Voted for me at first when people are saying I'm aggro, then jumped to Garmr when there was a wagon, then switched back to me now that the wagon is on me.

Why do you think did Mohab move away from the Garmr wagon back to you when the Garmr wagon just gained some momentum with three votes, just after your vote? Particularly if you consider that there always was the chance that Luca could move back putting Garmr up to L-1.

[Emperor flippyNips]

Luca just reads scum to me idk why. could be ..., his face.

What. o.o

Anyway I think I get what you mean. It's kind of why I want to see more from Luca outside of his 1v1 as there is always the chance someone is just looking bad while getting constantly "tunneled".

yahh you feel me!

also quick question, how many times have you been scum ?

[Emperor flippyNips]

UNVOTE:

[Emperor flippyNips]

VOTE COUNT 1.7

L-1

Kraeg (4) - NorwegianboyEE, Mohab500, Skellen, profii
Day 1 deadline is Friday, September 13th at 10:00 am PDT which is in

(expired on 2019-09-13 10:00:00)

intent

VOTE: give me something good Kraeg.

[Emperor flippyNips]

I haven't really delved into the possibility of a Garmr + Kraeg scum team, on the surface from what I remember it looks a bit unlikely but not impossible.

I am not too good with these pre-flip team associations, but I don't get why you stick these two together? (sure, they are both your scumreads) Particularly if your first tendency is that is a bit unlikely?

im leaning a mohab+Kraeg team

[NorwegianboyEE]

im leaning a mohab+Kraeg team

So you think Mohab would vote her own teammate if they are scum team?

[Emperor flippyNips]

@Norwegian, I know you're new here. Have you read any of the articles on the wiki for strategies on how to play?

whooooa there’s strategies in the wiki!?

Spoiler:

[Emperor flippyNips]

im leaning a mohab+Kraeg team

So you think Mohab would vote her own teammate if they are scum team?

possibly. when I said that I did think that mohab’s vote was a little later. but. yah

[profii]

UNVOTE:

I want to go through why flippynips thinks mohab has been bussing for ages and I dont want a hammer to happen if Kraeg jumps in with a claim before we've gone through that bit first because this seems weird

[Emperor flippyNips]

Profii, if you’ve started coming around to the idea that Kraeg might be scum i suggest you vote him first rather than probing for his potential teammate (s) on day 1. I read on the wiki scum-hunting tactics, and it’s stated that scum team speculation is not much use until the suspects lynch has gone through and flip has confirmed alignment.
Though i commend you for trying.

I dont think there’s any harm in trying to figure the team out. especially with a good amount of time left. but imagine a world where you are guessing the teams right? you boil it down to two people boom you’re like I think this is the scum team fellow towns people. one dies shit they flipped!Red. then what do you know the other person you said might be partners with the other person starts to gains traction they panic, they claim cop. then the real cop comes out & says hey! you’re not a cop im a cop. & you’re a bad guy, they die, games over, parade in your honor