Mini Normal 2098 - Game Over! (Mafia Won)

[Kraeg]

Ok, that means I'll roleclaim

[Garmr]

Ok, that means I'll roleclaim

Why didn't you in that post. You keep putting it off?

[Kraeg]

I'm the

Town Roleblocker

.

I don't want this slot to die so I guess I really have to do this. I'm hoping that there's a doctor who will protect me at night. If ever I do get killed tonight, the wagon on me says a lot about who's scum here. I'm confident that the scum team is on my wagon and I will be roleblocking one of them tonight.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I see.
UNVOTE:

[Mohab500]

gonna UNVOTE: for now because I believe that's we're supposed to do?

[Billy Pilgrim]

If Kraeg town= Mohab sus
If Kraeg scum= Billy sus.

Either a town victory or good information on who’s scum. Win-win.

I dont like this post at all

Yeah, if he's scum he is setting up a mis-lynch for day 2. I mean I'm probably suspicious if Kraeg flips red, that much I get, but why is Mohab the only suspect in a green Kraeg flip?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Mohab, assuming Kraeg is town and not fake claiming. Who do you think is the most suspicious? And do you have any specific townreads?

[Billy Pilgrim]

I'm the

Town Roleblocker

.

I don't want this slot to die so I guess I really have to do this. I'm hoping that there's a doctor who will protect me at night. If ever I do get killed tonight, the wagon on me says a lot about who's scum here. I'm confident that the scum team is on my wagon and I will be roleblocking one of them tonight.

Ugh, I hate this claim.

Can you please explain why you were playing so strangely like all of D1? You came in guns blazing almost trying to draw attention to yourself. What's the point of that playstyle with your role?

Also, Garmr, is this the type of role you had in mind?

[Billy Pilgrim]

gonna UNVOTE: for now because I believe that's we're supposed to do?

I don't know whether to award this explicit invocation of what we're supposed to do town points or scum points, but it feels more like scum trying to avoid scrutiny for the unvote.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Mohab, assuming Kraeg is town and not fake claiming. Who do you think is the most suspicious? And do you have any specific townreads?

You pivoted almost immediately from Kraeg to Mohab. Why?

[NorwegianboyEE]

If Kraeg town= Mohab sus
If Kraeg scum= Billy sus.

Either a town victory or good information on who’s scum. Win-win.

I dont like this post at all

Yeah, if he's scum he is setting up a mis-lynch for day 2. I mean I'm probably suspicious if Kraeg flips red, that much I get, but why is Mohab the only suspect in a green Kraeg flip?

Yeah it’s kinda incomplete, i just wrote that in a hurry because i wanted Kraeg to feel pressured into roleclaiming.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Mohab, assuming Kraeg is town and not fake claiming. Who do you think is the most suspicious? And do you have any specific townreads?

You pivoted almost immediately from Kraeg to Mohab. Why?

If Kraeg isn’t lying he’ll most likely get nightkilled anyway. So i think we should look for another target. If he doesn’t then he will seem more scummy as time goes on right?

[Mohab500]

To an extent I agree with the arguments Luca pulls up against Garmr, such as the stuff about speculating over PR for example. But mainly; It is true that both Luca and Garmr inherit somewhat defensive tones during their exchange, but I find Luca's tone more natural compared to Garmr's; thoughts seem more precise and simple, while Garmr's thoughts seem far reached and more like they're looking for stuff from the game or their posts to clear their name. I usually dislike that kind of approach because I feel that very often, town has more straight forward motivations so Garmr just kind of ends up on my wrong side.

[Mohab500]

Mohab, assuming Kraeg is town and not fake claiming. Who do you think is the most suspicious? And do you have any specific townreads?

I don't specifically read anyone as town, but I do lean town on Skellen; Also had a lean on Billy but I am a bit split on that atm. I'll elaborate and sort everyone else later.

As for who is most suspicious, probably Garmr then?

[profii]

gonna UNVOTE: for now because I believe that's we're supposed to do?

I don't know whether to award this explicit invocation of what we're supposed to do town points or scum points, but it feels more like scum trying to avoid scrutiny for the unvote.

I dont like this post.

It comes over as someone who doesn't know what to do

I was going to say to Mohab something like:

It's up to you, you obviously wanted to vote Kraeg for a reason, so if you believe those reasons were right and this claim is false you dont ~have~ to unvote
But you better have a damn good reason for pushing it

and I dont think there is one given how little Kraeg is playing

[profii]

oh and just to be specific, not counter claiming

[NorwegianboyEE]

I re-read the garmr Luca argument to see if i could notice anything new, but it still feels TvT to me. Wondering if i should just sheep Profii in pushing Billy.

[Billy Pilgrim]

gonna UNVOTE: for now because I believe that's we're supposed to do?

I don't know whether to award this explicit invocation of what we're supposed to do town points or scum points, but it feels more like scum trying to avoid scrutiny for the unvote.

I dont like this post.

It comes over as someone who doesn't know what to do

I was going to say to Mohab something like:

It's up to you, you obviously wanted to vote Kraeg for a reason, so if you believe those reasons were right and this claim is false you dont ~have~ to unvote
But you better have a damn good reason for pushing it

and I dont think there is one given how little Kraeg is playing

Here's the thing about how I play, I'm up front with pretty much everything. When I'm unsure about something, that's clear. I usually get pings from people that are overconfident. It's what pinged me about Garmr in that 1v1.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Light townlean:
Luca Blight
Garmr
profii
Skellen
Kraeg

Unsure:
Mohab500
Billy Pilgrim
Emperor FlippyNips

Day 1 reads terrible as always...

[profii]

Kraeg, you're at L-1. Someone who isn't on your wagon at the moment gave intent already when you were at L-1. You've seemed pretty uncommitted to the game. You planning on defending yourself, or have you given up?

This is important actually

We have 4 on wagon. Flippy and myself were (are?) Still willing to vote once we thrash it out

That is 6/9 - what does this mean? Few scenarios:

1. Scum team is within {Kraeg / Luca / Billy} as all other players have recently been on the wagon (I haven't checked the 2 ISOs for scum reads on Kraeg either so there is that)

2. As per Billy post, Kraeg has literally given up and scum are either already bussing or showing an intent to bus (if it's me or flippy for sake of thoroughness)

3. We are wrong and kraeg town


I'm leaning towards 2 but 3 keeps pinging in my mind because when you are lynching scum obviously scum resist and with so many people circling above Kraeg I wonder if we are straying from 2 to 3

I'm just going to revisit my theory here because I believe the claim as I already felt like too many people wanted that lynch.

That means we have a player list as follows:




Now I'm making the assumption I Kraeg is town, so I can remove him and myself from the analysis here on in:.

So i've split the remaining people into 2 camps:

No interest in voting:
3) Luca Blight
9) Billy Pilgrim

At some point interested in voting:
1) Mohab500
2) Skellen
4) Garmr
5) Emperor FlippyNips
7) NorwegianboyEE


so let's consider as the newbie game is 2v7, until we kill 2 scum and the game doesnt end, I'll assume we are too. So, would we expect to see 2 scum within a pile of 5 players trying to get Kraeg to go through? Given Kraeg wasn't oozing town, I dont think scum would feel the need to do so, therefore, let's consider the scum team being split across the 2 groups:

I went back to my 'stream of consciousness post' regarding Billy on Kraeg 237 - I initially thought that scum!billy was defending scum!kraeg but it turns out billy had communicated a certain scummyness about Kraeg so there is a risk that Billy is positioning himself somewhere where he could say Kraeg is town or scum and not draw a high level of scrutiny. This is a problem.

But let's compare that to Luca - looking through the ISO, Luca barely comments on Kraeg, addressing a specific read only once and says "feels naturally scummy to me" but there is little content here

If the cookie crumbled and we were voting off wagon, I'd be picking Billy because his content in respect to Kraeg already alarmed me but I dont think that this the sensible play today so I will park this analysis and look on wagon a bit more...



Garmr seems an interesting one to go first,
I immediately recall Garmr saying Kraeg might have been puling a slayers gambit, ergo inferring Kraeg was probably town. So the first thing I want to consider is why was he on this wagon in the first place? Let's look:
first thing that strikes me is very early in the game Garmr considered Kraeg may have a PR...
He then gets into it with Luca and I'll not drag that back up, defends himself against Billys vote...
Ultimately he 're reads flippy' then votes Kraeg to L-1 him again.
The latest read list was Luca!scum, kraeg!null-scum, EFN!null - so whilst I acknowledge that no one was going for luca and your vote has to go somewhere, I am not sure how the reread enables the Kraeg vote - it strikes me a little bit of L-1 to get the claim out which is obviously scummy...


Mohab next,
So there isn't much to go on but there I'm actually ok with this slot:
he picks up Garmr is scummy for the similar reasons i mentioned above so i like that.
i looked at some of mohabs previous play, i could find 1 scum game and his posting is distinctly more wall post-y compared to this/his past games so i am actually going to give him a meta tick in the town box there (only because there is so little to go on)
overall it's kinda what i'd expect from a relatively new player but the points above aren't making me vote here really...

Skellen,
i think in the majority of skellens posts there is clear thought on how to process each subject she is talking about, this is just oozing town and I'm too lazy to say much more as it seems a bit pointless given how obvious it is ha. So that's all you're getting right now.

EFN,
ok so EFN is crusing for the early parts of this game which is a worry
He also says he struggles to read Skellen when he usually can which is really at odds with what I just said so that is a problem for me.
He also puts Kraeg at L-1 with no real prior exception to the slot, this is a red flag
I really dont like the post where EFN says he just wants a kill 304

ok so that's a slot for vote consideration...

Finally, Norge,
he is consistently scum reading Kraeg all through the day, my issue with this is that Kraeg never really posted enough content to warrant such a 'grudge like' long term scum read (imo) so i could never understand it. I think Norge has shown he plays the game more 'off the cuff' and we'd never expect him to go back through iso/old games to find out more info so it's a bit what you see is what you get - he kinda summarises some of the other events in the game such as the 1v1 so it shows he is paying attention but i think he is just the type of person i never read well... If i advocated for his lynch it would be policy so I'd need other to convince me here...



so in conclusion, I think I need to make my mind up between Garmr and EFN and it is almost a coin toss tbh.

Gonna go for

VOTE: EFN

[NorwegianboyEE]

So i've split the remaining people into 2 camps:

No interest in voting:
3) Luca Blight
9) Billy Pilgrim

At some point interested in voting:
1) Mohab500
2) Skellen
4) Garmr
5) Emperor FlippyNips
7) NorwegianboyEE

Why does the people that have no interest in voting make them innocent in your eyes?
It's perfectly possible that at least one scum refrained from voting Kraeg because they knew he was town and that not partaking in the wagon would give them cheap and easy "town" points.
I like your post otherwise.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Oh never mind you split them into 2 groups for some other reason.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I kinda want to believe Mohab is innocent based on gut feeling.
So that means i'd probably pick out either Billy Pilgrim or Emperor from the roster.
Not sure who i'd vote for yet.

[Skellen]

I should roll with the skitter policy and V/LA each weekend, I am so sorry. Got surprise visitors till Tuesday, but I think I should find my time to drop some posts though.

Nonetheless:

@mod: V/LA till Tuesday

Just in case.

I will have a time window in the evening to comment on some things I would like to from the recent two pages. I really liked profii's last post, it pointed 1-2 things out I actually want to check/reflect upon it (of course now with the assumption of town!Kraeg if he is).

I am not sure what to make of the claim yet. From a mechanical point of view it's on town side basically a weaker Jailkeeper without the protective side effect, right? Does this make sense in a 9p setup? That question is more addressed at the experienced players, because I suck at this stuff. I mean it suggests that scum either has much power (with two people? But I guess nightkill also gets blocked?) or is just a role to mess with other roles (I know RC/nsg did it also in another setup I played).

I am willing to give it the benefit of doubt for now, therefore UNVOTE: Kraeg
However I still need more from Kraeg by play, because his recent posts weren't thrilling either. Kraeg, can you give us a readslist with maybe one, two words about that?

[Jackal711]

(bump to put VC at top of next page)