Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[Ankamius]

Ank, why is Dannflor so low down on your readslist

Not impressed with him so far

[jjh927]

That's not very specific

[Aristophanes]

Hey UT, sorry I've overposted a bit. I honestly didn't intend to.

I hope you can join gack into the game soon! Maybe try the Pine "replace in" method where you read only ~10 pages back and use that as the basis of your gameplay, at least while you settle in.

On another note, I just read through UT's ISO and he has a higher percentage of helpfilul posts than jjh does. Hobestly! Maube we should let UT chill and get his bearings and instead focus on someone who has been actively bad.

VOTE: jjh

[Dannflor]

I just read through UT's ISO and he has a higher percentage of helpfilul posts than jjh does.

what are you qualifying as helpful posts

[Dannflor]

also what exactly made you change from "I'm completely null on jjh" to "he's been actively bad"

[jjh927]

His thought process on things is very visible

He's been town since that post where he voted me

[Ankamius]

That's not very specific

That is probably closer to where the read is coming from tbh

[popsofctown]

imo, everything she's done from the beginning of the game has been town motivated. #275 generates content out of almost nothing and is a good way to help move the game out of RVS.

How do you feel about LLD putting pressure on a slot that she clearly thought that Ali might be indicating that xof was a mason. LLD even went as far as kinda making an ultimatum to Ali that she tell us if xof is a mason to get LLD to pivot. It even got to the point where LLD points out thats what she was doing, and when she did it felt forced because of course thats what she was trying to do, but why? Why not just take Ali at her word for at least the first day and not suicide on xof!scum paranoia?

I don't think it's clear that LLD thought that, I think it's clear that LLD didn't think that regardless of alignment, because why on God's green earth does an LLD with a godfatheresque role try to fire sale all of her town standing to more fully out a mason she can just shoot, and why does town LLD push conftown.

Some players are obviously not super cognizant about the mason mechanic, see: someone at some point suggesting it'd be a good idea to claim mason.

I'd complain about you highlighting the soft but it's not as bad as the way you messed with Katsuki since I don't see that much chance scum missed it.

[jjh927]

Ari, your nonsense metrics are troubling

[Jingle]

Untrod Tripod has requested replacement.

[Menalque]

Menalque Ankamius is doubling down. Either:

- This is a fake read she doesn't believe in and she is faking because she's scum => why is she doing this? I don't think she's going to mislynch you as scum here and shading you rn only makes you look unassociated, it's fairly unlikely to cause a shiny shiny day ending lynch. If you're town and think she's scum what makes you think her take on you is fake?

- She's town, thinks you're scum and hasn't seen anything which convinces her otherwise.

For context I've just seen scum!Ank powerscummung to push a townie in another game. I have pretty fresh meta of Ank pushing someone in argumentative bad faith because she wanted him mislynched. Her approach to you here feels a lot more earnest and organic than it did there; either she's scumming well or this is town!Ank. I'm happy to be convinced either way, but I suspect you're maybe voting her for frustrating you--could you have another think about this?

What do you mean voting her for frustrating me?

No, I don’t think she would want to speed wagon me because I don’t think enough people agree that I’ve been scummy enough for her to get away with a push that hard.

I think I’ve already explained this? Her certainty around my slot has felt weird and I wouldn’t expect that from town. If she normally plays like that as she claims (I’d like to meta it myself but I’m inclined to believe it) it lowers my SR on her a bit.

However, I still think that making claims about SRing me for my bargain request based on my entire play was a weird thing to say at that point. To me, that means that at the point she was SRing me she thought my entire play was scummy. I had 3 posts before the main post she was talking about. I don’t think that anyone can read reliably off three posts from someone they’ve never played with before, especially when the posts are as null as mine were.

his kind of tunnel is firmly within your scumrange

did you see that i was pushing chennis as well?

Something about this post pings me. Like he gets accused of tunneling and that it would be in his scum range, and Icons response is that he has also been pushing Chenny. I looked back and saw that Icon has talked about Chen a bit, but there is nothing worth breaking into a hot dog eating contest to report.

And the idea that Icon caught Gamma in a slip because he sat with Marias post for a bit and ended up not liking it, is ridiculous on its face. Are you telling me that you never read a post and felt it was ok, and then had it niggling away at your brain saying something felt off or something wasnt quite right, and then when you looked at things again it made more sense with other stuff being taken into account?

Someone check me on the worst

I'm starting to townread him and I want to be sure I'm not being charmed like I usually am when he's scum

Be weary. The fact that he hasnt said a fucking word to me yet is as much of a scum claim as anyone has made so far. Ducky, you cant dodge me. I can smell your fear.

1.now, go ahead and read me. I'm saying that Ank saying she was SRing me at the time she first voted me for my entire play when I'd done nothing that would be a good reason to see me as anything other than null is weird

2. I'm not saying you shouldn't push me, I'm saying you should be aware of that as we go and that I think it makes scum inclined towards pushing me

3. who says I'm not sorting people? this is being very productive in terms of sorting you and ank so far. when it dries up then I'll start sorting elsewhere

1. I've always disliked when people try to discredit other peoples reads by saying that what they are based on shouldnt exist. You are playing in a way that is coming off scummy. If you are then you are being obvious scum and if you arent then you are being bad town and you should stop it.

2. Just because you say scum are more inclined to push you doesnt make that gospel. If you were town you would be saying not to push you.

3. What are your current reads?

you're townier than you were before and ank is scummier

I feel the opposite. Can you explain why you feel this way a bit instead of just making a naked statement about reads without any of your thought process evident.

Pedit- Chick- are you willing to work with the town and make a choice, or are we going to offer our opinions and you are going to do whatever you want to do? And whos in your top two tiers right now?

I would edit this but I’m on my phone so you’re gonna have to read through the whole quote

1) I don’t know what you mean about discrediting? Also there are clearly multiple people who disagree with that. Your inability to read me as town isn’t my problem, and I’m not changing my playstyle to account for some people.

2) what?

3) pretty similar to the last time I gave them but you’re in townleans because you’re very different to purge so far

[jjh927]

See, Ari, I like seeing other people's thought processes on placing me. Yours is lazy and nonspecific but you're trying to make it a real thing

Plus this is a pretty clear and directed effort to move the conversation away from UT

[Aristophanes]

I just read through UT's ISO and he has a higher percentage of helpfilul posts than jjh does.

what are you qualifying as helpful posts

Basically if you look at jjh's ISO he is arguing mechanics, throwing around votes with no weight attached, not explaining reads, amd barely engaging people other than talking mechanics or talking to/about Pine. There is very little substance and no sorting there.

also what exactly made you change from "I'm completely null on jjh" to "he's been actively bad"

I ISO'd him I had null before because I didn't remember anything AI from him. Now I know why.

Ari, your nonsense metrics are troubling

I founs maybe, if we stretch it, 10 posts our of your 110 posts that were reasonable. I found at least 1 from UT that also was helpful in discerning things. Literally the same percentage, just stratified.

[Katsuki]

Oh no, UT has been a useless git in like 50% of the games I played with him. This is not "outside his meta".

It's just at some point losing to a player playing like that hurts more than losing to a player who is not sucking like a black hole.

Oh, unvote then. I'm also not in the market keeping certain people from winning. Play to your win condition.

I'm still pretty sure Lexi is my win condition. I'm just NOT sure that UT is not also scum. And the fact is, he's been on site since 2003. He has seen bigger dick waving contests than this. He's seen games with ABR and Fate in them. He's seen games with Fate and Reaper Charlie in them. Hell, I'm positive that he's seen games with me, Reckoner, and Fate, back when we were all on hair triggers, and there were many who would throw in to the ring besides.

That specifically felt like an excuse. In a 20:7, any given player should have a 25% chance to flip scum. Pine knows that at a minimum UT won't wig out and give away scumbuddies, and he's adept at surviving, and he at least doesn't mind being scum. That moves him up to a 33%. This? This is starting to feel more like a 50%, and 50% is where I get very happy to pull the trigger - if we only do 50/50 lynches for the entire game, our win is practically assured.

He was around for Benmage, who was probably the biggest dickwaver in the history of this site.

[Aristophanes]

Untrod Tripod has requested replacement.

Dammit!!

I miss you buddy <3

[jjh927]

Yeah I don't do a lot of explaining reads unless you ask me

Helps me figure out what people are interested in

[Dannflor]

I didn't remember anything AI from him. Now I know why.

but "actively bad" is very different from "I didn't remember anything AI"

[jjh927]

Something about the timing of this feels more like a culmination of ulterior motives

[Formerfish]

I have Xof!Scum dead to rights here, and you're calling her completely town. Is this a kneejerk reaction protecting a player you don't want to see die for personal reasons? Yes or No.

hm is this what you're talking about?

I read that more as having a very sure scum read and wanting to make sure Ali's defense wasn't for non-game related reasons

if that's not it can you quote the ultimatum for me?

Ali says back off:
350
352
377
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438
478
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482

LLD in 632:

Alisae, my points on Xof are completely valid and fit well within the range of Pine's picks.

I want you to look me dead in the metaphorical internet eye and tell me this isn't just you being protective of a player who is coming back to the game after a time away from it.

So, if you tell me this is for real and you actually town read Xof I will switch and find some other scumfuck to nail to the wall but know this

I know you're town but that don't make you fucking god. I'm willing to play ball but if I find out you've just been straight lying to ensure I push reads you approve instead of reads you don't I swear to god I will treat you like Pine this game, cause you'll be more anti-town than he is.

So let me ask this plainly

I have Xof!Scum dead to rights here, and you're calling her completely town. Is this a kneejerk reaction protecting a player you don't want to see die for personal reasons? Yes or No.

to which Ali replies

I wanna get back to you on this later and I am kinda just saying atm “I read this but I can’t respond to it atm”

No kidding I was trying to talk to you. I wanted to fuckong know if your shit on Xof was a mason thing e
Without asking uou if she was a fuckong mason. I needed to know if she was town or just likable so i could pivot.

And then this from LLD. Anyone would be able to see that LLD is vaguely masking her question of xof mason, and Ali gives what looks like a difinitive answer by saying stop asking. Which shoulc have been evident with the above list of times Ali told people to back off.

[GreyICE]

I mean actually wagoning a mason to claim usually looks awful. I've gotten lynched for that before as town.

For scum, finding out that someone is a mason is just as valuable, because it's not like masons ever get lynched.

[jjh927]

Huh that's a fair point FF

I'd kinda assumed that kind of thing could slip past some people

[Formerfish]

In a game where we have a town stump who picked her masonry its pretty scummy to go at someone as hard as that, maybe you did it because you had a idea that Ali would pick xof?, especially after the stump who picked the masonry tells people to back off someone at least 9 times.

See how many times Ali says to back off of anyone else. But LLD pushed it and pushed it and then claimed she wanted to do it under the radar...

[Dannflor]

Oh I see that now, thanks for outlining it

It's definitely not how I would have approached the situation, but I don't think it's scum indicative for LL?

#1388 reads very much like town that had a specific plan/idea in mind and is frustrated that she's not getting what she wants. Again, trying very hard not to read the angry outbursts as AI, but in this instance I'm not sure LL was even trying to get an answer anymore, just lamenting that she didn't get a direct one earlier

If LLD is scum, like you said she should already be able to have a good guess what the answer is from Ali and shut up about it so she can quietly NK him later. like it doesn't really make sense for her to continue prodding about it in such an obvious way?

[Formerfish]

Huh that's a fair point FF

I'd kinda assumed that kind of thing could slip past some people

When I have a clear on someone I dont out it the first chance I get the next day. I sit on it and wait to see if anyone comes out blasting towards my clear, and then i let things develop, and gain reads.

I will defend them eventually though and put my game life on the line to save them if needed and then attack the scum

[Dannflor]

maybe that just boils down to TWTBW

which, I have 0 meta with LL so maybe I'm wrong in assuming these things aren't scum indicative