Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings | GAME OVER

[Gamma Emerald]

feels like you're trying to have it both ways without actually taking a stance between us

I mean I definitely feel like you represented that behavior pattern. Don't think Tchill did from my impression reading normally but I might see it on an overview, which I don't care to do rn, so unless someone else does it I'm not seeing it from Chilly. That doesn't make you confscum, either, it just makes me not feel like you should be locktowned rn.

[Flavor Leaf]

If it was later, sure, but idk how I feel about this reasoning at this point in time.

Other people can have different reasoning, but for me I'm very consistent in looking for it.

BTW it works for me, in one game I vigged 2 scum and called the 3rd from the dead thread.

This sounds familiar

[Rick Dalton]

Awko taco, this keeps happening

[Elements]

the lack of a wagon is starting to crush me

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk here. I know I wasn't able to post yesterday. If you want to know why then click on my name. To make up for it I'm going to be making not 7, not 16, but 30 posts today, whether they have any valuable content in them or not!

I think despite the fact I'm going for townreads, I've listed four-five people I'm currently suspicious off so that's on odd question. Do you never vote on something recent that pings you when you're ready to change your current vote?

Not sure what you're implying with 'Then are you actually paying attention to judge dreads posts?' I've definitely posted a lot about JJD/had a fun little wagon.

Think that's a dodge there. Your suspicious over a odd reason right why are you trying to paint my actions as scummy then? It seems like your reaching.

Btw I'm implying that if you didn't get the impression he was town reading a majority of the active players you didn't pay close attention to JJD since I got that from a skim and the fact I said that and JJD said he thought one was deep wolfing and the rest were in the scum list means I was some what right.

Posting a lot and actually trying to comprehending things about Judge thoughts are two different things.

You might want to check your chronology there!

JJD didn't mention the word 'deepwolf' until after your question, so it's certainly not something I'd assume beforehand.

762 and 764 certainly aren't as certain as you're projecting here. JJD mentions he'd want to lynch lurkers due to a general anti-lurking stance, and that he thinks (at this stage) there's likely a few scum in the lurkers/low activity players.

I can see he had a lot more townreads than scumreads and can understand why you asked the question. I feel like you're making what he was saying a lot more certain than he said it. Further, I find your response to my question/vote very aggressive/defensive.

[Hopkirk]

Come to think of it, that was a pretty aggressive reaction to a one night vote I posted before going to sleep and changed the next time I was on. Especially given it sounds like you thought I'd misunderstood what you were asking JJD. Either not trying to understand why I was asking that question or automatically assuming the worst/scummy intent.

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

bob, who's your current vote on and would you be willing to join us on roster?

I think the rooster wagon is just a bad wagon. Cant see any justification for it even gettign to 3 votes let alone 5. Or how you tried to push it 6.

This is a 21 player game. A wagon of 5 is not pressure.

agreed... tbh I'd encourage some wagons, roster or otherwise as that will help the game sort itself out a bit.

Id prefer otherwise tbh. As it stands a roster flip probably wont be very useful anyway. Since partners might have jumped on to bus a flaker. Or he could just be town who got busy.

Anyone know if hes site-gone or just game-gone?

roster has made some posts though so i'd rather we build up a bit of a wagon and when he gets prodded he comes in to a situation where there is a need to deal with stuff rather than just go 'oh yeah hey that guy is probably scum see you in 5 days'

This is a terrible justification of wagoning Roster but would be a good justification for a Cliff wagon. Whether people join this wagon isn't alignment indicative in any well I can tell?
Do you have a problem with those posts or is it basically a random wagon? I feel you/Dave are switching between these two approaches the wagon. @Dave too

I don't like Hectic dropping out like that.
Lots of slots in prod range.
Fake claims are

fun

but don't really help solve.
Setup spec in a closed game before any flips seems pointless at best, and harmful is more likely.

VOTE: rosterfoster seems like a good place to poke, for now.

It is no longer a good place imo,

Also to everyone voting them, if they come back you can always get back on, hell id probably join you if they dont have a good reason.

If rosterslot ends up being scum we have a candidate for partner here?

Are you saying you can't think of any reason that town would have a problem with voting a random inactive?

I'd prefer a wagon to be on someone who can defend themselves. Even if he gets subbed, the sub wont know his reasoning, or why hes gone.

When you say 'won't know his reasoning' what do you mean? I thought you were arguing he hadn't done

anything

yet, so reasons wouldn't need explanation?

My defense of him is purely for altruistic reasons. Id hate to be a sub, subbed into a slot thats almost dead. Wouldn't you?

I thought you said there wouldn't be any pressure on the new sub since the votes have no backing? What sucks about subbing in, I wouldn't treat it as serious votes.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Woah, what's going on here?

According to my memory of the wiki, wagons on people who probably aren't even reading the thread right now are utterly useless. Move your votes from roster to anyone else, people.
Either roster will get replaced or will make a return and we can judge/lynch him then if he continues to actively lurk.

If that's in a wiki (I have my doubts), the entry is waaay too shallow.
Wagons have a purpose beyond their effect on the person being wagoned.

A lynch on an inactive has purpose if it's a scum lynch, and can be worse than useless if it's not. But wagons are most definitely not equal to lynches.

Any other comments on the things that have happened since you posted last?

You know the wiki thing is a gimmick right?. Are you taking it seriously here or joking in response? Can't fully tell from reading this.

Woah, what's going on here?

According to my memory of the wiki, wagons on people who probably aren't even reading the thread right now are utterly useless. Move your votes from roster to anyone else, people.
Either roster will get replaced or will make a return and we can judge/lynch him then if he continues to actively lurk.

Well, according to my memory of the wiki referring to the wiki in every post is becoming silly. It is also a useless move that's unlikely to convince anyone. Finally, roster (pr his replacement) should feel the heat. I am not going to let lurkers lurk any further, and if there's a wagon on a lurker I am going to join it. Right now I believe this is the largest wagon on a lurker,

Are you saying you think the wiki think is alignment indicative? Do you think Hectic expects it to convince anyone of anything?

VOTE: elements
Look! a wagon is beginning to form! and it's on an active player! Quick join it so it has some significance!

Oh, you know we're going to be voting you soon so you vote yourself in a silly looking way to paint anyone who does the same thing as an idiot eh? Well I'm on to your little game.

I mean, seriously.. games are lost because of letting lurkers be and concentrating on the active posters.

Ik, but there's just soooo much resistance to voting roster

That's one more reason why it should be the wagon we continue to push. Why would scum resist a wagon on a lurker? Because they're scum!
Why would TOWN resist a wagon on a lurker? For fear they might be a TPR.
Now why would Scum PUSH a lurker? They either suspect they're a TPR OR they feel it's an easy push.
Why would TOWN push a lurker? Because it's a good way to read other slots and how they react to the push.

So, keep on pushing roster and see who joins and WHY. See who resists and WHY. If roster ever flips you can go back and see who said what and evaluate based on his alignment.

Don't agree at all with most any of these. My alternatives

Why would town push a lurker- they expect to get reads on it (agreed, I will expect to hear from everyone who joined the wagon what they got out of it).
Why wouldn't town push a lurker- they have scumreads they want to push or prefer to interactive with people to develop reads rather than taking a passive role in looking how people react.
Why would scum push a lurker- to avoid producing content/making enemies etc. Mostly to hide/sit on a wagon pretending they're doing something (interested in who can't conclude on what they got out of it after we either have a lynch or have it collapse)
Why wouldn't scum push a lurker- they're doing other stuff trying to look town and deepwolfing.

I'm really unsure how PRs factor into it. Your 'why would scum push' is super weird given only an idiot would be pushing someone with 4 posts, expect it to lead to a lynch and a lynch on a pr specifically.

Further thoughts/feedback/explanations of your thoughts on what I've raised requested.

Continuation from last night

JJD - shouldn't be today's lynch imo

Hectic - I get a vibe from his iso that he is being active for actives sake. I'd say he perhaps lacked direction until this little roster wagon popped up so that's something to consider

Fish monger - thered be a tumble weed gif here if I was clever

Hopkirk is a little bit similar to hectic in his jovial entrance to the game but I get more of a sense that he is trying to convey opinions as the game progressed so I'm ok with that

Roster - come talk to me or the votes stays, y'arr!

Carcalilly - inquisitive enough to be town

Finish this tomorrow I think

I feel like some of this is a bit out of context as sometimes you only see 1 side of a conversation but whatever I'll reassess once I've done them all - not sure if I'm going to come out with a realistic number of slots of concern so we shall se

Is this a townread on me and if so how does that justify a townread?
If it's not a townread then aren't you just pointing out what's happened (IIOA) without forming conclusions and how is that good?
Is the Hectic read a scumlean or just commentary? There may be a follow up to this.

-Hop

[Carcalilly]

<snip>
i usually try to play mafia by sorting every player at once, but this game is too big for my usual playstyle to work here. i'm just gonna try to play ~in the moment~, so to speak.

ngl this is hella awkward

[Carcalilly]

VC please

Garmr, you know I don't read on subbing in?

oh my God it's Titus

hello!!! How do you do?

[Carcalilly]

I'm guessing that there's only so much we can talk about day 1, even though for a large game 32 pages isn't much.

I expected us to lynch someone soon but either scums playing real good or the lynchbait is laying low.

Wanna predict the nightkill? Do you think scum will be cautious of jjd's whatever-the-fuck-cop-claim? Or will they realize it's a joke? Or is it?

What are we going to achieve by trying to predict the nightkill? You do realise that there is most likely going to be more than one kill.

1. Who are you, where did you come from, why is this one of the first times I'm aware of your presence?

2. If town can work together-subtly-with the prs to prevent or predict a NK it will be favorable. Town can WIFOM scum with protective roles. Giving them a hard time is worth a minimal effort. Predicting can urge scum to rethink their decisions and possibly make ones less favorable to them. It prepares us for day two. Nobody was saying anything on the thread and I wanted something-anything-to talk about.

3. How the fuck is everyone so sure about a third faction or alternative killing role?

I don't know why this is the first time that your aware of my presence, maybe I never got involved with the whole RVS stage properly, or properly announce myself.

I have never played a game where we have tried to predict the nightkill so apologies on not seeing what kind of benefits it has. If I had actually participated in a game where I've seen it done and seen the affects it has, then I could have possibly had a different view on it, but since I've never been in a game where it has been done, I had a hard time seeing the negatives and positives it has.

And as for your third point, I thought I had seen someone quote a phrase that mentioned serial killer and I thought it was from the Mod. Reading back at the mods posts in this game, there was no mention of it so my bad for misreading into it, I don't know who quoted it so I can't check back on that either. However a game of this size, I'm going to presume that there will be a alternative killing role, possibly a vigilante, or another scum faction, or possibly a lone serial killer. Otherwise it's going to be quite a big mafia team if we're going to guess the ratio is 1 mafia to 4 town.

If you made 1 or 2 RVS posts, those will probably fall out of my memory. I might've exaggerated for the humor a little bit, but moreso I was wondering where you were for a majority of the game that had already passed. I know you might've been busy so you don't have to answer. Although I'd like to know how much of the whole game you've read over.

Fair answer. (tho At this point it would be redundant sice the game got back into moving, anyway, so I'll drop it)

3rd factions and extra killing roles can be hard to balance for normals but I kind of get that reasoning. The quote you're referencing has a good chance of being a joke, though.

[Carcalilly]

If it was later, sure, but idk how I feel about this reasoning at this point in time.

Other people can have different reasoning, but for me I'm very consistent in looking for it.

BTW it works for me, in one game I vigged 2 scum and called the 3rd from the dead thread.

valid choice. Carry on.

[Carcalilly]

VOTE: Roster

I see your voting rooster. Yet at no point so far have you scum hunted at all. Nor mentioned anyoen your town readign on the flip side. Just a few posts reacting to others set up speculation.

You have not mentioned any scum reads. Or attempted to question someone to get a scum read. Yet you are voting on the rather lazy rooster wagon. You never stated the specific reaso your voted him up. Even if other have called out his no posting. But why vote him over sharon and skellen. Who have posted just as little.

The only reason i can think of is that you jumped on the first wagon you saw. I could understand having a vote siting on rooster if you were atleast doing some scum hunting else where. But your not.


VOTE: Kop

good post

[Carcalilly]

Howdy. I’m Rick fucking Dalton, and I’ll eventually spend some time with this game

Can't wait!

[Hopkirk]

Even through I haven't be vocal in my interactions.


1.I have a town read on judge dread His answer to my query made me feel warm about him. Plus I don't think scum would react the way

2.Laid out a test for gamma i'll find out if his town or scum and I don't need to use any powers to do all it requires is a bit of faith in him it should become obvious latter on. I guess this can apply to Bob in some extent as well. But I forgot he was in the game tilll recently. Through last game and this game bob feels different his more how to do I put it aggressive which makes me feel like his town.

3.I found Hopkirks vote pretty scummy on me I was going to shift over but I thought I would feel them out more. I feel like a town hopkirk wouldn't of disengaged like he did when it wasn't working out so well. But it honestly surprised me he would jump off me. It feels like he was dipping his toys in the water to see if he could get a wagon off instead of actually hunting.

4.I town read Elements now I don't want to go into it because it involves set up speculation.

5. I'm not feeling the "You are great vote" anymore.


Interactionless read.

Well I like caralilly for town but I don't have interactions with them. I hope to change this maybe like day 2 I'm not really in a rush through since I town read them. She pushes the game so I think she vital to the game at the moment as well.

ew
So what makes you think Town-Hopkirk would have stuck on you there? Would scum Hopkirk reasonably expect a wagon after one question and mostly naked vote?

The direct implication of ' see if he could get a wagon off instead of actually hunting.' is why I said ew. Implying I'm not hunting when I've explicitly made clear who I townread and people I'm disliking/looking at is clearly disingenuous.

For you to have missed my scumreads/townreads existing then you must either
A.) have a problem with my other posts
B.) only care about my vote on you and ignore my other posts
C.) not have read my other posts- which I'm infering from some stuff you've said isn't the case.

Eagerly awaiting your reply at the first available opportunity.
Kind regards,
Hopkirk

-Hop

[EeveeLution Army]

bob, who's your current vote on and would you be willing to join us on roster?

I think the rooster wagon is just a bad wagon. Cant see any justification for it even gettign to 3 votes let alone 5. Or how you tried to push it 6.

This is a 21 player game. A wagon of 5 is not pressure.

agreed... tbh I'd encourage some wagons, roster or otherwise as that will help the game sort itself out a bit.

Id prefer otherwise tbh. As it stands a roster flip probably wont be very useful anyway. Since partners might have jumped on to bus a flaker. Or he could just be town who got busy.

Anyone know if hes site-gone or just game-gone?

roster has made some posts though so i'd rather we build up a bit of a wagon and when he gets prodded he comes in to a situation where there is a need to deal with stuff rather than just go 'oh yeah hey that guy is probably scum see you in 5 days'

This is a terrible justification of wagoning Roster but would be a good justification for a Cliff wagon. Whether people join this wagon isn't alignment indicative in any well I can tell?
Do you have a problem with those posts or is it basically a random wagon? I feel you/Dave are switching between these two approaches the wagon. @Dave too

I don't like Hectic dropping out like that.
Lots of slots in prod range.
Fake claims are

fun

but don't really help solve.
Setup spec in a closed game before any flips seems pointless at best, and harmful is more likely.

VOTE: rosterfoster seems like a good place to poke, for now.

It is no longer a good place imo,

Also to everyone voting them, if they come back you can always get back on, hell id probably join you if they dont have a good reason.

If rosterslot ends up being scum we have a candidate for partner here?

Are you saying you can't think of any reason that town would have a problem with voting a random inactive?

I'd prefer a wagon to be on someone who can defend themselves. Even if he gets subbed, the sub wont know his reasoning, or why hes gone.

When you say 'won't know his reasoning' what do you mean? I thought you were arguing he hadn't done

anything

yet, so reasons wouldn't need explanation?

My defense of him is purely for altruistic reasons. Id hate to be a sub, subbed into a slot thats almost dead. Wouldn't you?

I thought you said there wouldn't be any pressure on the new sub since the votes have no backing? What sucks about subbing in, I wouldn't treat it as serious votes.

-Hop

His reasoning for not being here his reasoning for having done nothing.

It is true the votes have no backing, but its still a weird spot to be in

[Carcalilly]

the lack of a wagon is starting to crush me

we'll be fine, we've got a few days

[Carcalilly]

Kirk is fucking blazing rn, I'm so proud

[Hopkirk]

Anyone else not a fan of Billy then, or is it just me?

@Eevee: wait what? Surely getting force replaced is absolute a definitive explanation/reason for why someone hasn't done anything. If he gets replaced then by definition you've already got your answer of why he'd done nothing (because he flaked)

-Kirk

[EeveeLution Army]

He could have had an emergency or device issues. Its not 10p% a flake reason.

[Carcalilly]

billy focuses in on the strangest things

To me it feels like he's trying to find something to push and commit to, their points are... Unique to say the least when he's not minorly sheeping.

I'm not sure whether this drive to do something comes from town or scum however

[Carcalilly]

there's no evidence of roster existing on this website for the past 3 days, so....

[Hopkirk]

He could have had an emergency or device issues. Its not 10p% a flake reason.

So is a flake alignment indicative (beyond the like 5% or whatever difference in flake rates)?
Are device issues alignment indicative?
He hasn't been online^

I'm struggling to see what 'questions' are essential for him to answer that aren't resolved by him being replaced? Can you tell me anything alignment indicative that I'm missing here?

[EeveeLution Army]

I never said it was alignment indicative?

[Carcalilly]

I think what she means is that, roster doing anything because hes not even here, and we don't know why he isn't here, so assuming it pertainins to solving the game is silly