This is why me and Billy are not a feasible scum team:
In post 712, Billy Pilgrim wrote: In post 632, Datisi wrote:Mainly post
551
I think I had commented at the time that I felt like scum!Icon wanted a sheep, but then went back to pushing me after people started voting me and accusing him of being my buddy?
Mainly his catchup to my reads and discussion, but he's still a firm null
Holy shit alot of stuff happened today. I miss one day at work and there's like 150 posts.
I quoted this because I now see what happened. I got the timeline wrong. I think
419 is the origin of my confusion regarding Icon's push. Tchill talked about 3 votes on Datisi. In fact there was only ever 2. Tchill and Icon. While Luca consistently read Datisi as scummy and put doubt on her, he wasn't voting her.
The whole thing started when Icon cased Emperor in 227, which had early traction until tchill let the air out of the Emperor push and then tchill voted Datisi in
235.
Almost comes into the game catches up and votes Kop. Then at
320 Icon votes Kop. After that Icon then seems to shade Luca a bit because of the Datisi scumread then signs off on it because of the lurking at posts 330 and 331. Datisi comes out with her reads list then Icon goes back to Kop at
344(all of this takes place within an hour). For the next 20 posts Luca and Icon ratchet up the pressure on Datisi and
366 Icon switches his vote back over to Datisi. Then
372 Icon hops back over to Kop after reading the Datisi/Icon/Luca situation as potentially all town. Datisi then votes Kop at
375. All that happened within 5 hours of the original call out for lurking. Kop goes up to L-1. Tchill calls out the kop votes and calls for more pressure on Datisi. So then there's some time where the votes are sitting on Kop then the replacement request happens. Then
477 Emperor votes Datisi for there to be 2 votes there. Now Luca votes Datisi at
488. And it's immediately after he expresses skepticism of Icon for switching his vote off Datisi back at post 371. Then
490 Icon votes Datisi. This entire current wagon built up from 1 vote to L-1 in under a page.
I'm most skeptical of Luca here. I don't see what changed from when he was shading Datisi the first time Icon ran the wagon to this time. I was looking at Icon/Datisi and I missed the person who was sitting mostly on the sidelines. I think when it got more likely, specifically when Emperor hopped on, now he felt he had more cover and came in as the middle vote.
VOTE: Luca
Pedit: as I was typing this monster I saw a luca vote from A50. So this is now L-2
Here Billy votes me, putting me at L-2. The VC at the time of this vote and subsequent push against me looked like this:
This was the point in the game where I was battling with Datisi and Alisae, and Billy completely sides with them against me at a crucial stage in the game. He had no reason to - there was plenty of reason to scumread Datisi at this point and Ali's arguments against me were flawed as I had repeatedly pointed out, but Billy ignores everything I say and votes me instead. Bear in my mind Datisi, who scumread me, is not yet voting me, meaning Billy's vote is effectively an L-1 vote.
In post 866, Billy Pilgrim wrote: In post 859, Datisi wrote: In post 853, Billy Pilgrim wrote:I agree that her Luca case was weak at the time she voted, but I'm having trouble seeing a scum motivation here.
You're voting Luca right now though. Is it just because of his vote on me? Did your view of him change after he explain how he got to voting me?
He's my primary read at the moment, not because he voted you but because of how he voted you. If he had that scum read and he wanted to see how you'd react, it should have happened 200 posts earlier. And then he says your scum game is ignoring your scumreads, but you engaged with both Icon and Luca after you started posting again. As it happened, he waited until one other person, namely Flippy, hopped on. I think he thought it was a safe bet that he could bring Icon back over, and then he'd be in the middle of a wagon and just waiting for someone else to hop on. And at that time the momentum built fast. I'm not a fan of how he handled that interaction with Ali, but I don't know how I would have handled that, so I don't think that's particularly AI. But I see an opportunistic hop on to a wagon that can probably get to L-1 easy and maybe up to a lynch, particularly when he has been saying he's scumreading you for 200+ posts and that's my leading candidate. I'm mostly lost this game, but I think there may be something there.
Billy backs up his SR on me and gives full reasoning behind it, showing it's not just fabricated. He is SR'ing me here because I delayed my Datisi vote.
In post 876, Billy Pilgrim wrote: In post 869, Iconeum wrote:It's the lack of vote despite Luca scumreading Datisi? Ali is this what you mean as well?
It's that coupled with the overall fence sitting. Early on he's making reads, but he's leaving himself ways out of them. It's like he's looking for someone else to sign off. It's like he doesn't want to be out on his own. I get that we were all confused in the early game, but it came off that he didn't want to be pinned down to anything. Like if you asked for clarification he could easily revise it. When Ali had clipped those earlier posts of his it was fresh in my mind, so seeing the way he joined the Datisi wagon when he had been shading and shading and scum reading and then it was a wagon and he could join, it felt scummy.
Billy says my early game 'fence-sitting' was scummy and again reaffirms his scum-read on me.
In post 887, Billy Pilgrim wrote: In post 873, Luca Blight wrote:Billy, is my explanation for the timing of my vote believable to you; that I was multi-tasking and phone-posting at the time of the Datisi pressure (I’m clearly not making this bit up as I mentioned it just prior to the drama) and then proceeded to vote the following day when I had digested what had happened and had computer access to properly review what had occurred?
It's believable, but I don't think it makes it better. She was already your top scumlean
224. Then from
345 through to 357 you are building your scum read up, and even quoting old posts (I only play on mobile so I know that that shit is hard). So I don't know how mobile posting excuses you not voting based on conviction when you can build a case and quote history. Then the post immediately before you vote Datisi, you shade Icon for hopping off, and then he hops on 2 posts later after saying he never left the SR of Datisi. Honestly your defense about multitasking and mobile posting may make it worse. Even if it's true, why would that impact your ability to vote your read?
Billy completely dismisses my explanation for my Datisi vote. This is clearly not a scum/scum interaction - I am trying my best to make him understand why I voted when I did and he is stubbornly not accepting it.
In post 898, Billy Pilgrim wrote: In post 880, Luca Blight wrote:Billy, you’re holding the fact that I was unsure of my very early reads against me? I think I’ve been in the same boat as most in this game in that I’ve had many Townread and few good scumreads. The further the game has progressed the more sure of my reads I’ve become, and I have expressed this.
It's not about the unsureness of your reads. We all had that. It was that the unsureness of your reads was coupled with this seeming desire to have someone else commit to them before you would. I get that the early game reads were unsure. But I find it hard to believe that your posts in the 350 range reflected a lack of "sure-ness.". And given how that played out, it felt like you were still waiting on someone else to sign off.
Again he is stubbornly refusing to accept my explanation, this time about the early game fence-sitting.
In post 912, Billy Pilgrim wrote: In post 889, Alisae wrote:Billy who else is scum and why if you don't think its icon sell me on something
I started typing out a reads list, then j realized I'm still mostly confused. I see how Icon doesn't look good in that interaction, but I've seen Icon play that style before and he was town. I like to look at voting behavior more than anything else personally.
A50, why did Luca's answers seem sufficient to you? Was it just the tone?
A50 unvotes me, giving me a little breathing space, and Billy is questioning it. He is genuinely scumreading me at this point and actively pushing my lynch.
In post 914, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Also, I love that Ali just called Miranda rights Amanda rights. I'm also amused that she basically put Luca under arrest. Is that a citizen's arrest?
He is basking in my plight. This comes from a Townie who thinks they are about to lynch scum.
There is
no way
Billy would be able to do this as scum given his complete lack of experience and the fact there is no day chat. There is no way that Billy would bus me in this situation if we were the scum team, when he could easily go for Datisi, go for someone neutral like Flippy or side with Icon's defence of me.
). My point is, I know I have to be wrong on someone or the other.. (two of them in fact), so I'm just waiting for someone to actually slip (or come close) so that I know what's what. Else, I think I'd need a flip to start connecting the dots, and that's bad in itself because it's more of a Micro (who decided to put 9 players setups in the minis??)