Mini 2097 - Make Me Regret This Game Over

[jjh927]

Seems like some weak anti-bus justifications

[TemporalLich]

You've sure been refraining from scumreading Korina a lot, haven't you TL

yeah because I thought Korina flubbed the role claim...

Fakeclaiming town flagbearer as a gambit is outright openwolfing though, but I don't want a hammer when Korina is still V/LA.

[jjh927]

Here's a little compilation

I don't think the eth0s/korina interaction strongly implicates either as scum

Either way I don't think Korina is worth voting right now.

yeah this is why Korina is potentially scum... doesn't mean Korina is guiltied scum

"Korina flubbed his role claim" does not equal "Korina is confirmed scum"

Even then powerlynching Korina is a bad move, and I wouldn't be surprised you're scum jjh....

VOTE: jjh927

pedit: actually yeah that's a good point but Korina is untouchable until LYLO

Let me rephrase; why would something that you can recognise as stupidly implausible influence your actions

because I believe it's much more possible that Korina is town flagbearing town... and saying Korina is scum flagbearing scum doesn't mean we're limited to two boxes of possibility.

For the record, I'm inclined to believe Korina is town flagbearing town right now.

more points to "korina can't roleclaim properly"... skimming Korina's ISO pings me null-town

I will refrain from scumreading Korina as Korina is effectively V/LA today

[TemporalLich]

I think you're forgetting "I thought Korina messed up his role claim and is still potentially a town flagbearer"

[TemporalLich]

but the gambit combined with the flub means Korina is openwolfing...

Intent to vote Korina

[jjh927]

It's a bit late to bus now though

[eth0s]

I have a pretty heavy post incoming. Please read it.

[Son of a Shepherd]

Unless you present me with the Cupcakes of Sorriness, this is where I stand. Yes.
VOTE: Korina

[Son of a Shepherd]

I have a pretty heavy post incoming. Please read it.

A turnip for your thoughts eth0s?

[jjh927]

I mean, I've been waiting for this pretty heavy post but I can't read things that aren't there

[Elements]

VOTE: korina

[jjh927]

I am also waiting for something else

VC soon

[eth0s]

We really should not be lynching Korina today. I think we could potentially break the setup depending on what exactly he has been telling the truth about. Hear me out.

Part of Korina's role is essentially confirmed -- that is, the part where he gets to create these temporary masonries between players. Even if Korina isn't town we can "leash him" like towns sometimes do with SKs. He makes the speed dates that we want and we don't lynch him. How we will determine what is good or not is hard to establish but I'm thinking each player simply states who they wish to be speed dating.

This is even better in the case of town having a role or alignment checker, because hastily lynching him day 1 and losing access to this mechanic that might actually have incredible town value -- well that would be dumb. With a role/alignment check on him, at least one person and eventually others probably would have a way to sort him with real evidence while we keep him leashed and making the PTs that seem to benefit town most.

Personally I still don't fully believe that he isn't a flagbearer of some sort. But I'm more inclined to believe he is if scum, and is not if town. For the sake of the point I'm trying to make, assume he is a scum flagbearer. scum!flagbearer!korina either does not make the PTs we tell him to, or someone provides a guilty result on him, then we lynch him. In this case we would also kill/deal 1 damage to all scum. I am inclined to believe it would be the damage option. So if we put 1 point of damage on the entire enemy scumteam then a vig, should we have one, has MUCH better information and odds of finding scum. Essentially making him an investigative role of sorts. Because the vig can then shoot a target, and assuming no roleblockey type interference, or prior damage dealt from something else, if the target doesn't die, they can't be on the scumteam (because if they were on the scumteam they would only have 1 hp at this point, causing the vig shot to kill them).

So basically unless someone has reason to believe that Korina is able to see the contents of these PT's, and could be using that information maliciously, I think the potential we could have in keeping him alive greatly outweighs the pros of lynching him now.

[jjh927]

jjh927's unofficial votecount

Player	Votes	L-X	Voters
Korina	5	L-2	jjh927, Korina, TiphaineDeath, Son Of A Shepherd, Elements
Elements	2	L-5	mastina, Menalque
TemporalLich	1	L-6	EspressoPatronum
Elbirn	1	L-6	Adorable
jjh927	1	L-6	TemporalLich
Not voting	3	---	momo, Elbirn, eth0s

With 13 alive it take 7 to lynch.
There's (expired on 2019-09-29 13:40:00) left to lynch Korina

[jjh927]

Dude, lynch scum

[jjh927]

I am not keeping scum alive for fucking PTs

[Korina]

UNVOTE:

[Korina]

I'm not scum.

[eth0s]

Until you address my point about him potentially being a scum flagbearer and the utility that could bring us by waiting ONE MORE DAY to lynch him then I don't really care what you want to do

[EspressoPatronum]

VOTE: Korina

L-1

[Korina]

Literally get a cop on me tonight if you're that certain I'm scum. I'm having to side with eth0s on this one because that logic actually is sound.
You cop me tonight, you get a green result, you move along.

[EspressoPatronum]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Korina

L-1

L-2*

[jjh927]

I reckon we've got TWO caught scum right now in Korina and TL

It won't matter what PRs we have knocking around. We're most likely dealing with either 2 or 3 scum in a 13p game. Probably 3. We have two of them on day 1. We will win the game. We are not leashing an ability that makes PTs.

[Korina]

Another thing I'd like to call to attention: If I'm scum, I don't give up a lie. I will keep pushing it until I get lynched. Why am I giving up my flagbearer lie rn and guaranteeing I'm getting lynched if I'm scum?

Pedit: Ok jjh, what if I flip town? Then what?

[Korina]

What are you gonna do when you see that I'm actually town?