Newbie 1951 (Day 4)

[skitter30]

Sure.
(Much) later today

[popsofctown]

I still feel like the scummiest thing about skitter's slot is the inconsistent way she treated Farkran's slot. town!skitter has a duty to WK him to an extent that keeps dead townies off the floor, not lynch whatever's popular. She repeatedly slips her own knowledge that Farkran is newbtown, but still votes him.

This is to an extent the same case I made my very first post this game, but then I focused on her unvoting and her behavior after the unvote. I didn't talk enough about her behavior before the unvote. It's really the same thing. All of her commentary throughought the game demonstrated that skitter is a player who when she rolls town would not be mislynching Farkran. The antiFarkran readslist and vote is an opportunistic hole in a long, consistent swatch of fabric.

I actually first noticed this type of tell in a recent game I played with a scumpartner, where someone said, "pops is scummy, because she did X", and X was a pretty remarkable point, and my scumpartner said, "yes, I agree I think scum do X more often than town does". Then five posts later my partner posted a readslist with me in null. Nothing else had really happened all game. It didn't make sense. It was scummy.

The reason it can happen is because when you play town you have these little like emotional gauges in your mind, and they tick up and tick down each time you get a point of data that points in either direction. One gauge for each player. You nudge up a bit, you nudge down a bit. When enough individual items add up, you get a strong read.

As scum you often have to post remarks, but it doesn't change your read. You know everybody is town. So it's never a turning point. Skillful scum will manually yank an imagined gauge up or down, so that they can have the most plausible consistent answer if they're asked "what's your read on this player right now". But it's tedious, and it's not always remembered to do this, even for skillful scum. Or in other cases, the circumstantial benefits and options of having a different position (like in the example I made, the benefit of holding the position that I was townie, especially since this guy is really humble and somehow thinks I'm better at scum than he is) are so great that scum will be willing to state a different positioned from what the imagined guage will say.

I had assumed (and i'm still not entirely convinced) that she was NOT aware her hammer vote was fake, since i genuinely thought speaking after having been lynched was going against the rules. I still think it should not be allowed: if you get lynched, you either prepared your testament in advance (like we used to do in old forum mafias through the [lastwill] command) or you go out silent. For this reason, i changed my mind on Selynee being townish.

can you repeat this? i'm not quite following your logic here

it was p obvious that selynee knew they were fake-hammering, and your immediate post thereafter seemed to recognize this too, given that you acknowledged they were already on wagon

like i don't understand the connection between what you wrote and how you're readign her

Skitter is demonstrates cognizance that some of the issues with Fark slot are misunderstandings. She hasn't figured out what it is about Fark's old site and how things go there to know what the deal exactly is, but she has the data points, long before she votes Fark. It should be null to her read.

This is the second time you've been defending skitter for... no reason at all, besides her being VLA.

yeah ngl this still weirds me out a bit

skitter has a resonant thought with Fark, arguably Fark should have gotten townpoints from her here.

wow, who knew that *not* being here and *not* posting could generate so much discusion lol

wrt the hiding thing i'm kinda getting the vibe that farkran wasn't using it in a pejorative/neagtive sense, maybe misused the word; i don't think he was actually accusing me of 'hiding' behind v/la tbh, even though that's the word he used, if that makes sense

that bit of teacher/farkran back-and-forth feels lik some kind of miscommunication i think

Again, she's rejecting a lot of the mainstream reasons for scumreading Fark over misunderstandings. This is scum!skitter emulating town!skitter, because emulating your own towngame is a good way to lower your lynchrate as scum.

Whether it helped backfires is up to you, emps.

With that said, i moved emps and Selynee down in my list of suspects.

Did Selynee know about the fakehammer? Perhaps. Sushi didn't notice it at first. I almost didn't notice it, but i wouldn't have said anything anyways.

again, at the time, you seem to recognize that it was a fakehammer so i don't understand why you're pushing her for bandwagoning/quickhammering given that you knew that she wasn't then

teacher defending me feels weird

The first part here is redundant to what I covered earlier.

The second shows skitter ought to be scumreading teacher more than fark, based on the language she's used to describe each slot.

Just gonna throw it out there now that I think skitt is gonna accuse me of buddying her and SR me for it

i mean given ~past events~ i'm not entirely surprised this is the approach you'd take for reading me
i'm not sure it's ai; i can see town!you realizing you have no idea how to read me (although i'm not sure defaulting to a townread is the correct way to handle the situation), and i can see you doing this as scum as a way to just like not have to 'read' me

teacher - mafia 60% too serious to be town PR

i'm actaully not sure scum, even newbscum, say this so blatantly in thread?

This is unarguably redeemable for townpoints for Farkran's slot.

No, my vote is bc skitt is conf!scum actually

That's a whole different matter then.

VOTE: unvote

VOTE: skitter30

lol i think they believed this

yeah, that's the bit i'm having trouble following;

@fakran in your previous site were n0 guilties a thing?

more trying to understand the misunderstandings but not having a reason to scumread them. I'm cutting things out for brevity, but none of the things I'm cutting out are independent reasoning for scumreading Fark. Her vote is cast later on Fark based on supposing she is "aware" of "common knowledge" about Fark being scummy to an extent she should scumread him. If skitter was a slave to groupthink, she never would have unvoted him, if she's not a slave to groupthink (it's that one, btw, Skitter), she doesn't vote Fark in the first place, and even if she does, she doesn't put him at the bottom of a readslist. (I'm not specifically going to say, omg, skitter! EpicCreep wasn't at the bottom of every one of your readslists! obvscum! btw.
This is actually about, "players it would take more effort to mislynch are not at the bottom of your readslist, the guy who is easy to mislynch who you -think is town- is".
Obvi skitter will come in and say she scumread Fark and later townread him. fmpov I know she doesn't develop reads this game because the seven townies are implied in her role pm, but from your point of view, look at this progression of her own words.

I stand by teacher being the most suspicious atm.

why?

Most players are more interested in assigning town equity to other players with similar reads than I am, but teacher is not held in high esteem by skitter at this point, so if she's in "most players" again this is a place where Fark should have gotten townpoints.

ur "analysis" is pretty bad. yiu dont need to analyze

random

votes

eh, kinda disagree; in the early game that's basically all you have to work with so i think it's worth it to make a mountain out of a molehill in general to get the game out of rvs if necessary; this game doesnt' seem to be stuck in rvs tho lol

She has actually refuted every single attack against Farkran goodness.

L-1?

VOTE: Farkran

Last words?

Lol, really? Ok.

I don't know if you were aware of your double vote, but hammer rushing is not just being aggressive, it's plain bandwagoning.

My town reading of you just went down to 40%

a) normally i would say that this sort of lacksadacksical response to the 'hammer' is kinda townie; i think scum are usually more survivalistic and would like freak out more here if they think they actually got hammered, but you're obviously p hyper-aware of the votes on you and knew you weren't hammered so i'm not sure this is a townie response in this context

b) what's the scum intent in that fakehammer?

Normally she would say this sort of lackadaisical response to the "hammer" is kinda townie, but under special circumstances the text in skitter's role PM is red, and she needs to keep her mislynch options open.

Her logic has some weight here, but it should -dampen- the town credit Farkran gets for being chill, not nullify it. A fakehammer with cognizance has some similarity to fakehammer someone is gullible to, and Farkran is posting from what should be a pressured state either way.
Regardless, skitter does not go so far as to say the towncred for being relaxed should be inverted, she's still never really scumreading this slot. The closest her posts ever get are times she is "not townreading" the slot.

bleh fakran is like on this weird plane where i kinda hate all their posting but i can kinda see it coming from 'i'm just going to my thing and don't give a fuck about what you think about it' newbtown

This becomes too much for her to top scumread fark later.

This shouldn't rank below teacher, or Sushi Cat, or even Menalque.
At bare minimum it should make her readslist have a bottom tier with several names, rather than giving Farkran an -entire tier- for how much scummier he is than the rest of the player list. ?

That didn't look hammer testing to me. Claiming (or speaking at all) after being lynched is against the rules if i am not mistaken. That looked more like genuine rushy bandwagon.

a) you seemed to know that they were already on-wagon; why didn't it look like hammer-testing to you?
b) it's fine to speak after being lynched, until the mod 'flips' you and ends the day. that period of time between 'lynch' and 'day end' is called twilight, people can still speak then

misunderstanding stuff again.

My biggest townread is probably Farkran, for getting people to talk. The fact that they pointed out they did this kind of negates it though. I also lean town on emps for asking those questions to analyze.

ok
a) why is 'getting people to talk' townie?
b) is farkran the only person you think has been doing this?
c) why does pointing out that they did this negate the townread?

Chat with the buddy, fun times. I do think a) is fine and is probably an accurate case where scum!skitter is emulating how town!skitter would challenge EC's thinking.
b) is pretty uncommital shading that doesn't seem to accomplish town's goals. like idgi. It feels awkward but I'm not sure how to explain how it is problematic.
c) is also fine
Note this is pretty close to the eventual vote cast on Farkran, and she is "both sidering" still. She does not present her own negative opinions on the townreadability of this things to sway EC to vote Farkran.


After the drum roll, she goes away from the thread and comes back to the thread and the gamestate has reached the point of Farkran being viable, juicy, low cost mislynch. And "everyone" thinks he's scummy, so it goes unquestioned if she just drops him at the bottom of a readslist.

reads are something like:

{emps}
{nmsa, selynee}
{teacher, sushi}
{menalque, creeper}
{farkran}

let me check the vc before i vote

VOTE: farkfran

EDIT: This quote wall is too big for me to hunt the exact place down, but I described her reads list wrong a couple times in terms of which reads were ranked near the bottom.
Regardless: It's too-absurd-to-be-town that any of the four names closest to fark do not even get to reside on the same tier as a player she is -basically townreading-

[emps]

hi hello this is kinda a prodge but i read the wallpost but i havent quite proccessed it its a very large wallpost and i hate wallposts so uh ye

[popsofctown]

Uh... sorry

[popsofctown]

Nope I’m town. Lynch skit tomorrow.

And yes pops, going from 2 to 4 on a readslist is going down three slots (two, three, four)

Good luck y’all.

this is real gud, less wally

[emps]

woah deadline is in 1 1/2 days oh no i dont want a no lynch

[emps]

uhm im leaning skitter here tbh

[emps]

but ill probs wait for their case thingy and response stuffs before i hammer

[popsofctown]

Yeah be sure to log on, no lynch is resolved as guaranteed scum win.

[emps]

yea dw i dont wanna get stabbed post game for no lynching lol

[skitter30]

a few things on pops/pops' slot:

1. emps, pops came into the game trying to put you into a mislynchable position when she repped in and you were p much townread by everyone.

when this notion met with resistance she dropped it and you became a townread because, to paraphrase 1486, at least one townie was townreading you and was stubborn enough in the read that they wouldn't drop it despite her trying to push you. i.e., when the scumread became too hard to push and she got called out on it, she dropped it. this wasn't a natural read, it was an attempt to create more viable mislynches that got dropped when it didn't gain traction.

2. sushi didn't know how to interact with epic. she went from announcing that she wasn't scumreading him (195) to putting him at th bottom of his readslist - with a caveat that most of she finds scummy could be nai (543) and then just kinda puts him in her lynchpool (677) without really doing anything about it.

in short, she tries to take a wishy-washy middle-of-the-road read on him, but when it looks like he's largely suspected, makes sure she announces that she thinks he's scummy and that she needs to sort him, and then

doesn't do anything about it

3. and this brings me to another point - how overfocused pops has been on whether or not epic was coached.

i thought it was pretty apparent from day1 and it's fallout that epic wasn't coached, either because his partner couldn't or wasn't there. and teacher came to the same (reasonable) conclusion too.

pops at one point writes up a whole post (1493) that nobody asked for explaining how sushi couldn't have been epic's partner because her posting indicates that she is capable of giving better coaching than epic apparently received.

and then, when pops flip-flopped on her teacher read, she came to the conclusion that because teacher insisted on epic not being coached, teacher actually had tmi that epic *had been* but just ignored it, and used this reasoning as justification for voting teacher, which is bizarre logic, to say the least

putting all of htis together, it reads like sushi did try to coach epic, who ignored it. pops, knowing what actually happened, used this knowledge to throw out a reasonable theory from her pov to justify her teacher vote: that epic ignored teacher's coaching.

(aside, if i *was* epic's partner, i presumably *would* have done a better job coaching him. like, helping him respond to pressure so that he didn't spend the whole first day flailing, or, like, helping him sort out a better way to handle l-1 that didn't involve a shitty tracker claim that got him insta-lynched after he got cc'd; i like to imagine that i could have handled that situation just a bit more gracefully than how it actually went down)

pedit oh hi everyone

[skitter30]

yea dw i dont wanna get stabbed post game for no lynching lol

ya let's not do this

[popsofctown]

p sure skitter would stab u even though she's scum

for mentorship purposes because she loves u

[skitter30]

or to summarize, since people don't like wallposts:

1. pops tried to make you lynchable when she repped in
2. sushi's associatives with epic were not great and she didn't know how to interact with him
3. pops had a very odd over-focus on whether or not epic had been coached; defended against his slot doing the coachign when nobody had acused her of it, and viewed the game through this lens to the point that she used this as a justification to vote teacher

[popsofctown]

I actually kind of that it was really weird how sure teacher seemed about coaching

And what made you slide above him on my scale was about how you were more chill about whether it happened

I don't actually know

Can you tell me after the hammer?

[popsofctown]

*thought it was

[skitter30]

p sure skitter would stab u even though she's scum

for mentorship purposes because she loves u

nah i don't like stabbing people when i'm scum, it's too messy; i murderize people instead

but yeah real-talk tho no-lynching in lylo is equivalent ot handing the agme to scum, so let's not do that

[skitter30]

I actually kind of that it was really weird how sure teacher seemed about coaching

And what made you slide above him on my scale was about how you were more chill about whether it happened

I don't actually know

Can you tell me after the hammer?

i mean it was p obvious that he wasn't coached
idk why, but if he had been the game prob would have turned otu differently

[popsofctown]

Were you too busy?

[popsofctown]

Ok, I think that question is formatted so you'll have to answer after the hammer

[skitter30]

i mean i wasn't there so i can't really explain what happened in the scum pt that day

[popsofctown]

I thought we were friends that wouldn't lie to eachother and that teacher was scum and I just wasn't misreading him for the guy fawkes avatar

but I was so wrong

omg is asia even really your favorite continent?

Pls don't break my heart with more lies skittttttttttttttttttttttttt

[skitter30]

nah i'd never lie to you

and yeah i actually like aisa, i lived there for a year, it was p cool

[skitter30]

pops, however this ends, i really enjoyed playing with you

[popsofctown]

i had fun too you should not let people day 1 lynch me prior to your replacement into games ok just bend some causalties make it happen