Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[popsofctown]

No.

Ok.

Say Jingle announced today's only options today are lynching mastina and no lynching.

Which option of those two would you vote for?

I don't think you know where I'm going with this, so just answer, it should help.

[popsofctown]

definitely: 317 5497 5535 6085 heavily implied: 758 4426 6070 6080

check these posts?

"lazy" is not alignment. Yes it is shade. Is it shade where you want to maintain an ability to switch between "bad town" or "scumread" Yes. That is the problem.
I concede 5497 and 5535
6085 is incoherent and kind of hard to count either way, I can't tell what you're saying. If I was being fair and meticulous I should have reduced your postcount by 1 to account for it not parsing out to anything..

758 I'll concede, the rest of the "implied" posts are not direct enough. You were far more direct with your reads before.

[Formerfish]

No.

Ok.

Say Jingle announced today's only options today are lynching mastina and no lynching.

Which option of those two would you vote for?

I don't think you know where I'm going with this, so just answer, it should help.

You are starting to be very weird today. Like this whole line of questioning about lynching mastina or nling, especially after that whole thing about you calling greyice conftown.

What are you doing?

[popsofctown]

Let me do a thing

[Formerfish]

Whatever

[Titus]

I really see no reason for u to remotely think:

"If I die, then we shall succeed in lynching scum mastina"
vs
"if I die, we will also lynch scum mastina but that will have nothing to do with my flip so why am I cool with dying again?"

How about scum mastina isn't a thing and pops is doing AtE?

[popsofctown]

No.

Ok.

Say Jingle announced today's only options today are lynching mastina and no lynching.

Which option of those two would you vote for?

I don't think you know where I'm going with this, so just answer, it should help.

Ok, Firebringer has gone somewhere. I will assume his answer is "he would rather lynch mastina than no-lynch". Mastina is interchangeable with any player Fire thinks is scummy for the illustration.

"pops" is a generic player that fire thinks is town that might get mislynched.


There are two options. Here is what they look like on a 2 day forecast.

discard governor fruit

pops gets lynched today.

pops dies

mastina get lynched tomorrow.

mastina dies

use fruit on popsofctown

no one dies today

no lynch

pops gets lynched tomorow.

pops dies

This is the exciting part because it's mathematics. What is the difference between these two things?

(

pops dies

+

mastina dies

) =?= (

no lynch

+

pops dies

)

Subtract "pops dies" from each side of the equation

(

pops dies

+

mastina dies

)

-pops dies

=?= (

no lynch

+

pops dies

)

-pops dies

mastina dies

?=?

no lynch

We decided mastina dies > no lynch! We like that better! But mastina dying or no lynch is the only difference between the two scenarios. pops becomes irrelevant. The terms have cancelled out.

So which scenario originally gave us the "mastina dies" scenario we prefer?

It was "

discard governor fruit

"!

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel I have been incredibly above board with my approach to this game. I feel that a victory gained through treachery and rank dishonesty is barely valid. Much sweeter is the victory I gain when being forthright and concealing nothing save the identities of my compatriots. I will lie, omit, deceive, vex, perplex, mislead, hoodwink, bewitch, con, dupe, bamboozle, and otherwise trick you…but only to your face, where you can see me coming.

Remember, the whole central conceit to this series is that you KNOW that I am scum...yet I fool you anyway. Abusing a flavor mechanic to misrepresent myself has a certain low cunning appeal to it, but I am going for a more thorough win here.

I wouldn't have it any other way, friend.

[Gamma Emerald]

No.

Ok.

Say Jingle announced today's only options today are lynching mastina and no lynching.

Which option of those two would you vote for?

I don't think you know where I'm going with this, so just answer, it should help.

Ok, Firebringer has gone somewhere. I will assume his answer is "he would rather lynch mastina than no-lynch". Mastina is interchangeable with any player Fire thinks is scummy for the illustration.

"pops" is a generic player that fire thinks is town that might get mislynched.


There are two options. Here is what they look like on a 2 day forecast.

discard governor fruit

pops gets lynched today.

pops dies

mastina get lynched tomorrow.

mastina dies

use fruit on popsofctown

no one dies today

no lynch

pops gets lynched tomorow.

pops dies

This is the exciting part because it's mathematics. What is the difference between these two things?

(

pops dies

+

mastina dies

) =?= (

no lynch

+

pops dies

)

Subtract "pops dies" from each side of the equation

(

pops dies

+

mastina dies

)

-pops dies

=?= (

no lynch

+

pops dies

)

-pops dies

mastina dies

?=?

no lynch

We decided mastina dies > no lynch! We like that better! But mastina dying or no lynch is the only difference between the two scenarios. pops becomes irrelevant. The terms have cancelled out.

So which scenario originally gave us the "mastina dies" scenario we prefer?

It was "

discard governor fruit

"!

What the fuck did I just read

[Gamma Emerald]

The worst has quite literally wanted to lynch literally anything this day phase
I honestly think he’s just letting town self-destruct at this point
So lets just lynch him
VOTE: the worst

VOTE: the worst
At this point I'm just broken about tw looking like that other game

[Gamma Emerald]

I am open defending my townreads.

Like I did with you until you bit the hand.

Sue me.

Is this towards SS?

Yes.

This mofo, I tried defending his butt because I townread him.
Now he frames my actions as scum motivated when I defending al my townreads from being lynched today.

How the hell does he manage that?!

You do realize he's conftown right

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you think the town is imploding?
What should we be doing right now?
Killing everyone who isn't a townread is a pretty shallow stance, so I think you should give 3 people you want to kill and why.

I can't be bothered, too many people I'm not townreading and too many posts to reevaluate. Too busy and reevaluating like 7 slots I'm not townreading at the 300 page mark is something I can't see myself doing. I'll lynch anyone I don't townread because I can't play this game at its current size.

Who are your 3?

See, that's all fine and dandy. But that's not gonna stop people from wanting to lynch you. So, I'd kick it up a notch. You knew what you were getting into with 27 players.
My 3 are Fire PP Dann

hold on why the fuck would I choose 3 players when there's 6 scum this is fucking stupid

why do you want to make me look worse than I am? that's not a valuable sorting exercise for me => others or vice versa so genuinely curious.

I mean we agree on Fire. There's a scum governor tho so this phase is "lynch someone and see if it works then probably lynch them again tomorrow" :/

I have no idea what you're talking about!
So what if 6 scum are alive? Are you saying you don't have 3 big scumreads at the moment? I doubt it. You don't need to solve the whole team on day 3 no one expects that of you.

Okay tw actually looks really bad in this exchange

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald - is just town

I don't think tw has wavered from this read and it actually kinda contradicts the game I originally thought made him town here
In that game tw was much more fluid in reading me

[the worst]

are you reading me entirely by meta gamma? do you think my read on you here should be wavering?

[the worst]

every post i've seen from you looks like town, you're less hedgy and more focused than usual here

[Gamma Emerald]

Firebringer if I get lynched and I ask you to please not govern would you not govern because I'm town and I asked?

Doesn't he have to wait til tomorrow to use it

[Gamma Emerald]

are you reading me entirely by meta gamma? do you think my read on you here should be wavering?

I townread you by meta yes, you seemed similar to The Thread Title Sucked but your read progression on me kinda strikes that. In that game your read on me felt dynamic and here it just seems static. And like the second I gave up on that meta townread your posting just felt a lot worse to me so I think I was wrong to townread you off meta. And idk how my play really looks at this point but I feel like my activity would do something to the townread on me idk.

[popsofctown]

Firebringer if I get lynched and I ask you to please not govern would you not govern because I'm town and I asked?

Doesn't he have to wait til tomorrow to use it

It's immediately available.
He promised me on subsequent days he would not hold the lynch hostage and I want him to stick to that.

[Gamma Emerald]

why am I in a game with people who all use moon logic.

It actually makes sense. People don't take kindly to having force used against them.

[the worst]

are you reading me entirely by meta gamma? do you think my read on you here should be wavering?

I townread you by meta yes, you seemed similar to The Thread Title Sucked but your read progression on me kinda strikes that. In that game your read on me felt dynamic and here it just seems static. And like the second I gave up on that meta townread your posting just felt a lot worse to me so I think I was wrong to townread you off meta. And idk how my play really looks at this point but I feel like my activity would do something to the townread on me idk.

i definitely think you're not right to read me off meta, only a few things here have been similar to thread title sucked so i'm kinda surprised you started with a meta townread. what part of my porting reminded you of that game?

as far as like activity and Presence goes my mini/micro and large metas have historically read almost backwards so i'm like woah

[Iconeum]

Firebringer if I get lynched and I ask you to please not govern would you not govern because I'm town and I asked?

This feels fake. Presenting yourself as a self-sacrifice without being at risk yet is easy.

VOTE: the worst

"I'm not townreading pops" grossed me out a bit

Weaksauce. This vote came right after Ali called out to lynch the worst, too.

All of the wagons approved by Fire are on high contention reads.

I think we should just ignore the governor, and if Fire uses it we just lynch him the next day.

Fire regularly plays against win condition. That is just how he plays. I would be more likely to invite him to a birthday party than a game of mafia, I'll say that. No matter how much you hate it, it's not scum indicative for him to scumside. You have to figure out other ways to read him, like the actual flavor of his antics, in this case I think scum!fire would give a narrower pool of allowed lynches, this fire doesn't seem to know people's role pms. Threatening to lynch him will do nothing whatsoever to disincentivize his use of the governor as either alignment. Actually if he didn't use the governor it'd probably be better to lynch him.
Fire killed himself as mafia in a game of dance mafia once. He'll do anything.
Sometimes, possibly usually, you can't afford an extra mislynch just to punish bad behavior. I either won SC legacy of the void mafia or won it ahead of schedule because I convinced the town not to lynch a townie who had fake an innocent result on an unconfirmed player who turned out to be scum. That's absolutely disgusting play that "deserves" three lynches but it wasn't to my wincon to mislynch a townie for vindication.

mother of shades?

chennisden is not only not meeting his own hyperpost meta (he probably is, it's just in the PT, I know from Undertale Mafia he loves having a PT), the quality of his posts is way lower. This is not town chennis.

VOTE: chennisden

I don't know where the non-vanity wagons are right now


chennisden shouldn't be a vanity wagon though.

Literally all over the place, hoping one of these wagons draws enough attention away from him is how I read all of this.

VOTE: pops

[the worst]

pops is a lady

[the worst]

otherwise yes. very.

i'd like weep tears of joy if chennis was vigged but he's a comically shit lynch

[Gamma Emerald]

are you reading me entirely by meta gamma? do you think my read on you here should be wavering?

I townread you by meta yes, you seemed similar to The Thread Title Sucked but your read progression on me kinda strikes that. In that game your read on me felt dynamic and here it just seems static. And like the second I gave up on that meta townread your posting just felt a lot worse to me so I think I was wrong to townread you off meta. And idk how my play really looks at this point but I feel like my activity would do something to the townread on me idk.

i definitely think you're not right to read me off meta, only a few things here have been similar to thread title sucked so i'm kinda surprised you started with a meta townread. what part of my porting reminded you of that game?

as far as like activity and Presence goes my mini/micro and large metas have historically read almost backwards so i'm like woah

The way you handled me kinda reminded of that, that same sort of assurance that you could sort me

[Dannflor]

Hi. Long day but I promised a reads list and it seems we're struggling to come to a consensus so I'm gonna try my best to add in my 2 cents. possibly lazy and half assed reads list inc

Firebringer

- Idek. I still think this slot flips town more often than not but I am growing increasingly frustrated with it. The arguments S_S and Pops make about the governor fruit are correct and so far it's only served to derail discussion today and make deciding on a lynch harder. I find Firebringer's continued push on Mastina scummy because he's not really explaining why she is scum but attacking her for the way she produces her arguments or plays. The push doesn't feel like one borne out of a genuine scum read and I would hope town!fire would have admitted that by now. But, that push aside, I do see the world where Firebringer as town thinks he is playing to his win condition by behaving the way he has this day phase. Fire is enough of a wild card that I don't think I'm ever going to have a super confident read here, but the way he's interacted with S_S and Pops today reads genuine even if I disagree with it, so gun to head I'd still say he's town.

MariaR

- stale town read that's turned somewhat sour due to lots of recent posting that feels like posturing at doing something rather than actually doing anything. Mostly, MariaR, I'd like to know why your three proposed lynches went from Fire/Mastina/PP to Fire/Dannflor/PP between #6775 and #7052. I'm mostly curious how much of that shift was due to me calling out your fencesitty Krazy post, because that affects my read on you significantly.

regardless though I mistakenly mislynched this slot in Gameshow Mafia and I think her style might just be one that I can't read, like mine is to S_S. so I'm happy to sheep players that are better than me / players that know MariaR better as far as this slot. I'd still like an answer to my question though.

Gamma Emerald

- I think this is town. I've covered reasons why in previous reads list, they're in my ISO. I think this is one of the few consensus reads in the game so I'm not gonna waste any time talking about it.

mastina

- Like, I don't even care about the claim. There's definite problems with saying this slot will resolve via night actions, but that's fine because I'm pretty sure the slot is just town via day play? I understand why pops latched onto that one sentence as a slip, but as somewhat backwards of a thought process as it is it's something that town!mastina would actually think. Her reads and analysis have a consistent progression that doesn't read too forced—like how she's been scum reading PB, Pops, and the worst less today. And her case on Krazy is GOOD actually, but I'll get to that. She's just town? I haven't seen one good case against her and every post I read from her just reminds me more of Undertale.

chennisden

- not gonna waste time here. would be fine lynching if he wasn't under the protection of fire. Particularly don't like how he's popped in to argue semantics over Pop's recent case against him instead of like, actually playing the game.

popsofctown

- Why are people scum reading this? There's no scum agenda in her posting her attempts to engage both Fire and Chennis are overtly townie imo. A lot of effort was put in there for strictly a pro-town outcome in both cases. This is a strong gut tone read I've had since the beginning of the game. I know drunk posting isn't town indicative but I'll read a post like #6974 and just be like... yup that's town. She has this casual flowy way of moving around the game that just seems very hard to replicate as scum over such a large volume of posts. I'd like to see some actual cases in regards to the scum reads on this slot because I'm not seeing the apparent weirdness others are seeing.

Krazy

- can we just lynch here please. It's a slot Fire won't govern AND it's scummy. It's like the best of both worlds. Mastina's case is basically what I've been saying since late D1. Krazy's ISO is largely mechanics, something several people remarked was within his comfort zone as scum and was a large source of paranoia throughout MD so I know mastina isn't just pulling that out of her ass. I think someone like MariaR said there's nothing in Krazy's ISO why are we lynching this but like... That's exactly it. Town!Krazy doesn't have "nothing" in his ISO. I was town pinged by his interactions with Mastina at first today but his catchups since than have been too angery and too off tonally for me to believe this is town Krazy. I keep comparing to MD and I realize meta isn't everything, but the difference in tone feels like night and day. I think if this was town!Krazy I would be town reading him by now... and it's just not happening.

Something_Smart

- oops.

PenguinPower

- vaguely town pinged by an interaction he had with fish earlier in the game, nothing has impressed since then. very stale read.

the worst

- this is not duck's scum meta?? People keep saying it is and like, it's not? I made a post earlier that outlined the difference between duck's game here and Undertale. For one thing, I think the worst would have been trying to pocket me this game if he were scum and his read progression on me this game has been decidedly not the read progression of someone trying to pocket me. In fact, he hasn't really cared for his interpersonal relationships between players within the context of this game like at all, which I feel is a trademark for the scum duck game I experienced. He doesn't give a fuck this game and I think that's distinctly a town tell for him. I've talked about other reasons I town read him before. would like actual cases here too

GreyICE

- was not bothered by pops' use of conf town because that's what he's virtually is. not that he literally is, but that I'm comfortable townbinning him based on D1 to the point that I won't be reconsidering him until LyLo if he's still alive. so by all intents and purposes he's conf town for now

Titus

- since she's come into the game she's seemed generally solvey in a way that's been fairly fluid and I don't think has a specific agenda behind it beyond getting good VCA. I don't understand the assertion that the game is splitting up into two camps though. If the recent vote counts have told me anything, it's that there's no consensus on anything anywhere. Everyone seems to have their own pet town reads and scum reads and are unwilling to compromise.

FF

- Town. it's getting late and I'm gonna get super lazy with these now. I've explained why before, nothing has changed. He's one of the more obv town slots in the game imo. I put him with gamma and pops as my tippy top town reads.

Iconeum

- meh town? a somewhat stale read. his re-entrance into the game was pretty smooth and I liked that he engaged Maria on the same point I did, he really just needs to do more though

Pink Ball

- Pink Ball confuses me and I'm very mixed on my read here. Interactions on D1 town pinged me but the push on mastina was so so bad. The freak out earlier and unvote of Krazy read more frustrated!town to me. But I could see it being PB's was of trying to dig himself out of the hole she'd potentially found himself in, since that was after a fairly long day of many players attacking him.

Katsuki

- literally no idea and I will default to people's reads on this slot that are better than me. I'm inclined to town read slots that don't give a fuck though.

Menalque

- I've had some doubts but talking with him + the worst re-solidified my town read on him. The way he engaged felt very genuine. I would like him to go into his scum read on the worst from earlier though if he hasn't already.

ok sorry that got lazy at the end but that's because I worked all day and it's bedtime

tl;dr: can we lynch krazy and stop voting the pops/tw/mastina vanity wagons

thank you for coming to my TED talk