newbie 1956 - car seat headrest [we gotta go back]

[faüstiv]

Apologies I’m on mobile.

[faüstiv]

@Geyde - I was rereading your posts. What does TMI mean?

[Spangled]

@faüstiv
Did you see my Airan case-in-two-parts before you wrote up

your

Airan case?

[faüstiv]

Yes but Jamellia asked me for mine, twice.

[Egix96]

- Dryanth hasn’t said anything that screams town. His analysis could easily come from a scum perspective;

- him asking questions to numerous other players is something scum would do d1 to ‘fly under the radar’ so to speak (as if they’re interrogating one specific player, that could disturb trust in the town)

- but I get a town vibe from post 28. That’s why I think he is null/town.

(Bulletting added by me)
- This is fair, I'm feeling the same way

- I agree that it's something scum would do on D1 of a game, but not quite for the same reason: not because of not wanting to disturb the peace, but rather because it's something they know they would be doing as town.

- I presume you mean 175 (the #28 post in his Iso) rather than the actual 28? Because I find the former of those to be AI (in the town direction ofc)

[Egix96]

- Dryanth hasn’t said anything that screams town. His analysis could easily come from a scum perspective;

- him asking questions to numerous other players is something scum would do d1 to ‘fly under the radar’ so to speak (as if they’re interrogating one specific player, that could disturb trust in the town)

- but I get a town vibe from post 28. That’s why I think he is null/town.

(Bulletting added by me)
- This is fair, I'm feeling the same way

- I agree that it's something scum would do on D1 of a game, but not quite for the same reason: not because of not wanting to disturb the peace, but rather because it's something they know they would be doing as town.

- I presume you mean 175 (the #28 post in his Iso) rather than the actual 28? Because I

only

find the former of those to be AI (in the town direction ofc)

Accidentally'd a word

[UrVeggieM8]

Making this post so that I don't get prodded/replaced myself! Not entirely convinced of Spangled's town-ness just yet but I (hopefully) have a better read on them than either faüstiv or Airan. So I'm choosing to put my trust in their post about newb-scum behaviour and agree with both faüstiv and Airan lynch-wagons. I am a little bit torn as to who I should vote for though. I still think something's up with faüstiv and am leaning towards lynching them based on gut instinct but in terms of utility, I think an Airan lynch would probably provide more information.

What more information would an Airan lynch provide than a faüstiv one?
And what do you think is ‘up’ about faüstiv?

Was thinking along the lines that up until recently, Airan had been more interactive with the game and providing opinions/commentary (even if it was all filler). Between the two potential lynches, I thought that the less vague defence would've come from Airan. This post is past its deadline anyway, with Airan being replaced.

"Still think something's up" meant not willing to completely abandon faüstiv as a lynch target just yet. I posted my opinion on faüstiv in 121 and at this point in the game, my opinion largely hasn't changed. What I neglected to say in 121 is that I think that kind of play is scummy because it feels like faüstiv is withholding information and I believe a townie rarely has reason to withhold information (unless they're a special townie with an identity they want to preserve).

[Spangled]

Making this post so that I don't get prodded/replaced myself! Not entirely convinced of Spangled's town-ness just yet but I (hopefully) have a better read on them than either faüstiv or Airan. So I'm choosing to put my trust in their post about newb-scum behaviour and agree with both faüstiv and Airan lynch-wagons. I am a little bit torn as to who I should vote for though. I still think something's up with faüstiv and am leaning towards lynching them based on gut instinct but in terms of utility, I think an Airan lynch would probably provide more information.

What more information would an Airan lynch provide than a faüstiv one?
And what do you think is ‘up’ about faüstiv?

Was thinking along the lines that up until recently, Airan had been more interactive with the game and providing opinions/commentary (even if it was all filler). Between the two potential lynches, I thought that the less vague defence would've come from Airan. This post is past its deadline anyway, with Airan being replaced.

"Still think something's up" meant not willing to completely abandon faüstiv as a lynch target just yet. I posted my opinion on faüstiv in 121 and at this point in the game, my opinion largely hasn't changed. What I neglected to say in 121 is that I think that kind of play is scummy because it feels like faüstiv is withholding information and I believe a townie rarely has reason to withhold information (unless they're a special townie with an identity they want to preserve).

@Veg
What kind of information do you think faüstiv is withholding; what do you mean by that?

[Spangled]

whoops didn’t mean to quote it but the darn thing always bloody

[faüstiv]

- Dryanth hasn’t said anything that screams town. His analysis could easily come from a scum perspective;

- him asking questions to numerous other players is something scum would do d1 to ‘fly under the radar’ so to speak (as if they’re interrogating one specific player, that could disturb trust in the town)

- but I get a town vibe from post 28. That’s why I think he is null/town.

(Bulletting added by me)
- This is fair, I'm feeling the same way

- I agree that it's something scum would do on D1 of a game, but not quite for the same reason: not because of not wanting to disturb the peace, but rather because it's something they know they would be doing as town.

- I presume you mean 175 (the #28 post in his Iso) rather than the actual 28? Because I find the former of those to be AI (in the town direction ofc)

Post number 28, where he says, “huh?”

[Egix96]

- Dryanth hasn’t said anything that screams town. His analysis could easily come from a scum perspective;

- him asking questions to numerous other players is something scum would do d1 to ‘fly under the radar’ so to speak (as if they’re interrogating one specific player, that could disturb trust in the town)

- but I get a town vibe from post 28. That’s why I think he is null/town.

(Bulletting added by me)
- This is fair, I'm feeling the same way

- I agree that it's something scum would do on D1 of a game, but not quite for the same reason: not because of not wanting to disturb the peace, but rather because it's something they know they would be doing as town.

- I presume you mean 175 (the #28 post in his Iso) rather than the actual 28? Because I find the former of those to be AI (in the town direction ofc)

Post number 28, where he says, “huh?”

oh right

[UrVeggieM8]

Making this post so that I don't get prodded/replaced myself! Not entirely convinced of Spangled's town-ness just yet but I (hopefully) have a better read on them than either faüstiv or Airan. So I'm choosing to put my trust in their post about newb-scum behaviour and agree with both faüstiv and Airan lynch-wagons. I am a little bit torn as to who I should vote for though. I still think something's up with faüstiv and am leaning towards lynching them based on gut instinct but in terms of utility, I think an Airan lynch would probably provide more information.

What more information would an Airan lynch provide than a faüstiv one?
And what do you think is ‘up’ about faüstiv?

Airan is more likely to be scum. Also prodge.

Well Veg seems to reckon that faüstiv is more likely scum than Airan, and seems only to be acquiescing because Airan will ‘provide more information’, seemingly regardless of flip... which seems strange to me, as I don’t see what more information Airan would provide — disregarding flipping scum, ‘cause that’s not an info-lynch, it’s a scumlynch (I hope).

This wasn't quite the intent behind the original post. I never said that I was acquiescing with lynching Airan, and the fact that I didn't vote them reflects that. The reason why I felt a stronger scum-reading for faüstiv than for Airan is related to the amount of information I could take from each post. faüstiv posted questions or small sentences whereas Airan posted small paragraphs or sentences with observations. I stand by my point in 256 that there aren't many reasons for town to withhold information. Upon reading Spangled's post about newb-scum behaviour, my original scum-reading of faüstiv didn't change at all but I started seeing more scum-plays in Airan's comments than I noticed previously... mainly that despite their posts usually being more specific than faüstiv's, the actual content was sparse. 24, 39, and 141 are good examples of what I mean.

[UrVeggieM8]

Making this post so that I don't get prodded/replaced myself! Not entirely convinced of Spangled's town-ness just yet but I (hopefully) have a better read on them than either faüstiv or Airan. So I'm choosing to put my trust in their post about newb-scum behaviour and agree with both faüstiv and Airan lynch-wagons. I am a little bit torn as to who I should vote for though. I still think something's up with faüstiv and am leaning towards lynching them based on gut instinct but in terms of utility, I think an Airan lynch would probably provide more information.

What more information would an Airan lynch provide than a faüstiv one?
And what do you think is ‘up’ about faüstiv?

Was thinking along the lines that up until recently, Airan had been more interactive with the game and providing opinions/commentary (even if it was all filler). Between the two potential lynches, I thought that the less vague defence would've come from Airan. This post is past its deadline anyway, with Airan being replaced.

"Still think something's up" meant not willing to completely abandon faüstiv as a lynch target just yet. I posted my opinion on faüstiv in 121 and at this point in the game, my opinion largely hasn't changed. What I neglected to say in 121 is that I think that kind of play is scummy because it feels like faüstiv is withholding information and I believe a townie rarely has reason to withhold information (unless they're a special townie with an identity they want to preserve).

@Veg
What kind of information do you think faüstiv is withholding; what do you mean by that?

Posts 198, 229, 248 stand out to me because while an opinion is present, it's not followed up with additional helpful information (example: an explanation or justification that town players might like to consider or analyse). I personally don't feel as though a will to help town players understand their reasoning was present until faüstiv made post 249.

[Draynth]

I'll do a full case on Jam in a few hours I think, but I'll make a quick response here.

Looking forward to this

I'm not good at explaining it in words, so I kinda have to just tell you to read both of their isos, and hope that you see what I do. As I said, iso deep dives on content as well as tone incoming in a few hours unless rl gets in the way.

"Go look for scummy things yourselves and if you find them I'll agree with them". Sound about right?

Just checked him. Yeah this guy is screaming scum to me. Don’t know how I missed that.

UNVOTE: Geyde[\unvote]

VOTE: Airan303[\vote]

This feels pretty opportunistic alright but to be honest I think Spangled's post makes a lot of sense so I can't scumread faustiv for it

I’ve had opportunities to jump on other bandwagons. I chose not to. I think this guy is scum. I’ll go into detail a bit later but basically he’s pussyfooting and trying not to upset anyone. He doesn’t want to be suspected and this is apparent in his play.

Is that detail coming?

Spoiler: big post

I’m not accusing anyone, but spam seemed eager to Lynch veggie, after someone had already voted to lynch veggie.

I find it scummy because instead of voting for anyone else to check reactions, he voted for someone who had already been voted for.

I am not saying spam is a scum, or that you should vote for him. I am just saying that what he did was scummy

VOTE: faustiv

Sorry, reposting because I voted the incorrect way before!

Why are you voting me?

This might be because you seem (through no fault of your own) a bit of a lurker.

Yeah, I think that spam has got tunnel vision. Not sure if this makes him scum...

Ew ew ew. I want to... crawl away from my computer and wash my hands; it reminds me of my first game (which was as scum) and that's some serious PTSD right there; I don't want to be reminded of that game ever again.

'I’m not accusing anyone'
'I am not saying spam is a scum, or that you should vote for him. I am just saying that what he did was scummy'
'might be because you seem (through no fault of your own) a bit of a lurker'
'Not sure if this makes him scum...'

Conciliation coupled with opinions without thoughts or even...

bite

(if I can put it like that); a

point

behind them.
Throwing shade but retracting it in the same post; observations without

anything

behind or following from them. This is newbscum. VOTE: Airan303

ok yeah I see what you mean, also I'm sheeping spangled until further notice.

VOTE: Airan

If airan gets lynched and flips green lynch this with fire

Jamellia why are you ok with an Airan lynch if I’m on the bandwagon? I’m one of your scumreads and I am advocating this lynch. Do you think me and Airan are a team?

These things shouldn't be mutually exclusive in my opinion.
i.e. I'm scumreading x player. X players votes y player. That doesn't necessarily mean I can't scumread Y player.
I can think about the different scenarios but as town if you're trying to use Process of Elimination on Day 1 / use it to sort people this early, you're going to have a really tough time

[Draynth]

I’ve had opportunities to jump on other bandwagons. I chose not to. I think this guy is scum. I’ll go into detail a bit later but basically he’s pussyfooting and trying not to upset anyone. He doesn’t want to be suspected and this is apparent in his play.

Is that detail coming?[/quote]
Scratch this, I hadn't seen the post on page 10

[Draynth]

How easily this Airan wagon has built up is slightly concerning and makes me think there's at least 1 scum on it, but given he hasn't been here to defend himself that (gut) feeling doesn't have as much merit as it would typically.

[Spangled]

How easily this Airan wagon has built up is slightly concerning and makes me think there's at least 1 scum on it, but given he hasn't been here to defend himself that (gut) feeling doesn't have as much merit as it would typically.

Aye.
If there had to be 1 scum on it, who do you think it would be?

[Spangled]

@mod
Will be V/LA for the next ~40 hours.

[Draynth]

How easily this Airan wagon has built up is slightly concerning and makes me think there's at least 1 scum on it, but given he hasn't been here to defend himself that (gut) feeling doesn't have as much merit as it would typically.

Aye.
If there had to be 1 scum on it, who do you think it would be?

out of {Spangled, NMSA, Egix}
I'd say NMSA
Faustiv was technically never on it and then unvoted, but I've actually liked their recent posting regardless

[Spangled]

@Draynth
What would you say has been better about Egix than NMSA?

[Draynth]

I think NMSA has just stood out to me more as scummy, Egix has been quite null for me mostly by virtue of flying under the radar i guess?
Like his hop onto the airan wagon also with no reasoning is scummy, but he did it as a result of my post asking for people to consolidate wagons so i dunno really
I'll have to take a look at egix's ISO when i get a chance

[Spangled]

Could you summarise what has stood out to you as scummy from NMSA?

[Jamelia]

How easily this Airan wagon has built up is slightly concerning and makes me think there's at least 1 scum on it, but given he hasn't been here to defend himself that (gut) feeling doesn't have as much merit as it would typically.

I feel the same way. I’m more inclined to believe that Spangled had a well-thought out post even if I don’t agree with it, but it was jumped on quite quickly, especially with Spam jumping from me to Aidan almost instantly

[Geyde]

@Geyde - I was rereading your posts. What does TMI mean?

Too much information
This factors into reads since mafia know everyone's alignments and have to look like they don't while also fakesolving.

[Geyde]

Spoiler:

Before this moment, I hadn’t realised that I’ve actually had experience in the newbie queue that can help me in other games. I’m afraid that this may well go to my head

But as to Airan — they’re not automatically scum, but I think that they are likely to be scum far above rand. So... in my experience, newbies have many different tones, but I think the most easily discernible is ‘my first game is a scum game’. Because forum mafia is an entirely new experience to many, you get thrown into the deep end on your first game — especially those who roll scum.

And the core of sorting people in mafia is really looking at the worldviews behind people’s posts — scum’s job (and thus worldview) is starkly different to town; their main priority is to stay alive, not drawing attention to themselves. This is especially apparent when you haven’t played any towngames; in a scumgame after you’ve played town, your main job is to mimic the style of your towngames.

But in a scumgame with no previous experience, you can’t do that, and don’t have any experience solving, sorting, etc. — the classic town behaviours. And so they don’t do them — where less-newb-scum might at least try to solve and sort and ‘be townie’ generally, true newbscum literally cannot do this; they don’t know how.

So you lay low; you try not to draw attention to yourself — or offend anyone. Thus, the conciliatory and just-made-accusation-withdrawing nature of their posts — they want to do what everyone else is doing that others are calling townie — air opinions, really — but without making anyone look twice at them.

This is what Airan is doing.

And I don’t think Airan is actually analysing anything; they’re agreeing with other things and giving irrelevant opinions — ‘oh, they probably RVS voted you because you are (through no fault of your own) a lurker’. There’s no analysis there.

If this wall — this absolute dissertation on first-game-scum — above does not convince you — which I’m sorry for, by the way, but once the steam train got going there was no stopping it — I’m afraid you’ll have to take my word for it as someone who randed their first game as scum.

Of course, if Airan’s next few posts make them obvtown, or all of the SEs disagree vehemently with this case, or Airan flips green, I reserve the right to say that I was actually talking of hypotheticals

I feel pretty confident about locking Spangled v here, regardless of Airan's alignment

He brings up a general point
He relates it to a player
He brings a specific example of a player acting like the general point

The thought process here works without coming off as forced.
This post is building upon previous ones (?)

I'd say his progression on this is about perfect.
His tone here sticks out in comparison to the rest of his posts, but it's more being confident in a find here versus earlier posts. It's natural