newbie 1956 - car seat headrest [we gotta go back]

[faüstiv]

The above interaction looks T v T.

[Errantparabola]

this is our lifetime
and i am his creator

- The Drum,

My Back Is Killing Me Baby

votecount 1.10

Airan303

(3): Spangled, NotMySpamAccount, Egix96

NotMySpamAccount

(2): Geyde, Draynth

faüstiv

(1): Jamelia

Geyde

(1): faüstiv

Not Voting

(2): Airan303, UrVeggieM8

Spangled is V/LA until 9/27.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-09-27 09:56:00)

Deadline is currently frozen.

[Draynth]

The above interaction looks T v T.

this is a scummy post

[faüstiv]

what's scummy about it

[Geyde]

The above interaction looks T v T.

this is a scummy post

agree

[Geyde]

I want to say DADV given that thread has been both completely warped and died since the push on Airan started. If Airan were to be scum, then why isn't there any pressure being put on CFDs?
NMSA had a particularly shitty progression in 221 completely shifting his mind despite not showing any drop in confidence in scum!Jam, but that hasn't been expanded upon beyond a token comment by Draynth. Even then, there hasn't been any movement in thread toward pushing that further.
This might be clouded by Airan's activity completely dropping off the map, but I think the wagon on Airan is entirely impure

I am starting to worry about this vote as well. I think if Airan was here we would have a more clear indication of what to do. I think Spangled's analysis was good but I actually think it revealed more about Spam/Faustiv/Egix. All 3 were more than likely on a different wagon (Spam on Me, Faustiv on Geyde, Egix up in the air), and then saw Spangled's analysis and went on that.

More specifically, we have Spam/Faustiv going from VERY strong opinions about their scumreads to going on the Airan train, and this was when they were both the lead vote getters at the time.

I agree with what others have said, I believe at least ONE scum is among those 4 voters. If you had to ask me, my gut still tells me that my main scum read is Faustiv.

@Jamelia
So you think Airan isn’t scum?
What part of my analysis do you disagree?

Like I said before, I disagree with the context of your analysis, not the analysis itself.

I think in a normal situation I think you would be right, but I always thought that Airan was being messy, but not scummy. I always prefered a faustiv vote to Airan's because at the beginning, I felt like Airan was more cooperative and willing to find scum with us rather than faustiv, who was combative and not really helpful.

Now that you posted (a very well-thought out) an anaylsis painting a target on him, the players I mentioned before don't have a reason to create a scum storyline since you already painted one

. That is why I said I was fine with the Airan vote to begin with, even if I didn't agree. This isn't about ME being right or wrong, it's about us getting the right people out. And your analysis was better than anything I have posted/thought of so far. I shared my opinion but I can't disagree with the things you found.

Now that time has passed and we have seen people jump on the bandwagon, I am more or less thinking that your post exposed their willingness to drop their thinking and go on a path that is more clear and direct. If you are right and Airan is scum, then he can be lynched (which was what I was fine with before). But I still feel more comfortable lynching someone like Faustiv, who only became analytical when pushed as a target, and Spam who has had clear tunnel vision on me, only to switch after ONE post by you.

Jam, in making this post, draws attention to themselves considering they are taking a stance contrary to threadstate.
Scum wouldn't want to do that at this point unless they have a very good reason to do so. The only reasons I can think of are that they think they can get the wagon off of a teammate (in this case it would be Airan), and on to a player that fits with their current progression (faustiv). Alternatively they are WK'ing.

Jam has been hodge podge with how they've handled Airan's slot beforehand. They were fine with the lynch on them, but now they have much more of a problem after I made my post about DADV. WK'ing doesn't make sense since they showed a lack of resistance to the wagon earlier, and jumping in resistance now only draws attention to them.
I could see a world where they as scum would start a defense on Airan. There is pressure in thread to push the wagon off of Airan coming from me and now they push a possible agenda harder, but it fits with their progression here.

I'll put this at slight >rand town until I see flips considering I think a push on Faustiv is at least reasonable at this point in the game

[Geyde]

My gut wants to focus on Draynth

[Jamelia]

I want to say DADV given that thread has been both completely warped and died since the push on Airan started. If Airan were to be scum, then why isn't there any pressure being put on CFDs?
NMSA had a particularly shitty progression in 221 completely shifting his mind despite not showing any drop in confidence in scum!Jam, but that hasn't been expanded upon beyond a token comment by Draynth. Even then, there hasn't been any movement in thread toward pushing that further.
This might be clouded by Airan's activity completely dropping off the map, but I think the wagon on Airan is entirely impure

I am starting to worry about this vote as well. I think if Airan was here we would have a more clear indication of what to do. I think Spangled's analysis was good but I actually think it revealed more about Spam/Faustiv/Egix. All 3 were more than likely on a different wagon (Spam on Me, Faustiv on Geyde, Egix up in the air), and then saw Spangled's analysis and went on that.

More specifically, we have Spam/Faustiv going from VERY strong opinions about their scumreads to going on the Airan train, and this was when they were both the lead vote getters at the time.

I agree with what others have said, I believe at least ONE scum is among those 4 voters. If you had to ask me, my gut still tells me that my main scum read is Faustiv.

@Jamelia
So you think Airan isn’t scum?
What part of my analysis do you disagree?

Like I said before, I disagree with the context of your analysis, not the analysis itself.

I think in a normal situation I think you would be right, but I always thought that Airan was being messy, but not scummy. I always prefered a faustiv vote to Airan's because at the beginning, I felt like Airan was more cooperative and willing to find scum with us rather than faustiv, who was combative and not really helpful.

Now that you posted (a very well-thought out) an anaylsis painting a target on him, the players I mentioned before don't have a reason to create a scum storyline since you already painted one

. That is why I said I was fine with the Airan vote to begin with, even if I didn't agree. This isn't about ME being right or wrong, it's about us getting the right people out. And your analysis was better than anything I have posted/thought of so far. I shared my opinion but I can't disagree with the things you found.

Now that time has passed and we have seen people jump on the bandwagon, I am more or less thinking that your post exposed their willingness to drop their thinking and go on a path that is more clear and direct. If you are right and Airan is scum, then he can be lynched (which was what I was fine with before). But I still feel more comfortable lynching someone like Faustiv, who only became analytical when pushed as a target, and Spam who has had clear tunnel vision on me, only to switch after ONE post by you.

Jam, in making this post, draws attention to themselves considering they are taking a stance contrary to threadstate.
Scum wouldn't want to do that at this point unless they have a very good reason to do so. The only reasons I can think of are that they think they can get the wagon off of a teammate (in this case it would be Airan), and on to a player that fits with their current progression (faustiv). Alternatively they are WK'ing.

Jam has been hodge podge with how they've handled Airan's slot beforehand.

They were fine with the lynch on them, but now they have much more of a problem after I made my post about DADV.

WK'ing doesn't make sense since they showed a lack of resistance to the wagon earlier, and jumping in resistance now only draws attention to them.
I could see a world where they as scum would start a defense on Airan. There is pressure in thread to push the wagon off of Airan coming from me and now they push a possible agenda harder, but it fits with their progression here.

I'll put this at slight >rand town until I see flips considering I think a push on Faustiv is at least reasonable at this point in the game

I wasn't fine with the lynch of Airan if they tried defending themselves and it followed what I believed was Airan's gamestyle; a messy new player who doesn't understand how to act - rather than just being a scummy new player. However, if that was contradicted by their response, I would agree with Spangled's original take on them. Airan hasn't responded to any of this and has since been prodded (and we're searching for a replacement right now?). This along with your take on DADV (which I haven't heard of that term until you explained it), makes sense from what I was thinking when the wagon was jumped on fairly quickly - that Airan is town and that this wagon is a way to take the target off of Faustiv/Spam.

[Geyde]

"

we're

"

[Jamelia]

Right, and I was saying why I "WAS" fine with it. It had a condition, and I said that in my original post

[Errantparabola]

eth0s replaces Airan303. The deadline will be extended accordingly.

[Errantparabola]

if none of us know the words, then only the melody matters
nanana na nana nana na na... matters

- Souls,

Monomania

votecount 1.11

eth0s

(3): Spangled, NotMySpamAccount, Egix96

NotMySpamAccount

(2): Geyde, Draynth

faüstiv

(1): Jamelia

Geyde

(1): faüstiv

Not Voting

(2): eth0s, UrVeggieM8

Spangled is V/LA until 9/27.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-09-29 01:56:00)

[Draynth]

welcome eth0s

Also @Spangled

I never got around to answering you. I promise it'll come tomorrow, I have a day off from uni

[Draynth]

what's scummy about it

It's a weird thought to have from an uninformed point of view

[eth0s]

Catching up

[Spangled]

Catching up

Man I don’t want to play against you when you’re scum dude.
Alternatively, show yourself to be obvtown in your catchup and I can ignore those almost-scumtells from Airan.

[Draynth]

Alright I'm not as tired as I thought i was

Spoiler: NMSA

to put it simply (and not quite accurately), you're using too many exclamation points. More precisely, it sounds like pocketing/ingratiating yourself with people. In my experience, this comes more from newb!scum wanting to sound genuine than from newb!town who are extremely excited.

This post just feels forced. It feels like NMSA is trying to legitimise a weak or bad reason to scumread someone by making it quite wordy.

VOTE: NotMySpamAccount
I like Geyde's point in 156
NMSA's reasoning behind jamelia's tone being wrong felt kind of forced and it's something I could imagine scum!Draynth saying
NMSA is also lurking a worrying amount (albeit he's not alone in that)

Draynth: jam's lack of voting might just be aplaystyle thing
Also Draynth: spam is lurking early d1, mumst be scum.

anyone who's played with me can tell you I do this every game.

I do like veggie's reasoning in 164 and 165.

Also, everyone keeps referring to the exclamation point thing, which I said in the post was not entirely accurate. It's not just the number of exclamation points, but the entire tone of the posts. Veggie's posts come across as much more sincere. That's why I'm voting Jam.

This was an extremely defensive and cherrypicking reaction to a vote on him. Simultaneously the only other post he discusses this was just shading jamelia some more.

ok yeah I see what you mean, also I'm sheeping spangled

until further notice.

VOTE: Airan

It's weird but the bolded actually sticks out to me more than the scummy sheeping itself.
It's like he's trying to justify that he hasn't even mentioned airan at all previously and doesn't plan to either. That is probably putting words in his mouth but it's kind of a gut thing that stuck out to me. If i think of a better way to explain this I'll come back to it

Making this post so that I don't get prodded/replaced myself! Not entirely convinced of Spangled's town-ness just yet but I (hopefully) have a better read on them than either faüstiv or Airan. So I'm choosing to put my trust in their post about newb-scum behaviour and agree with both faüstiv and Airan lynch-wagons. I am a little bit torn as to who I should vote for though. I still think something's up with faüstiv and am leaning towards lynching them based on gut instinct but in terms of utility, I think an Airan lynch would probably provide more information.

What more information would an Airan lynch provide than a faüstiv one?
And what do you think is ‘up’ about faüstiv?

Airan is more likely to be scum. Also prodge.

I have to believe that town would be trying to do more at this point

The above posts are ones that stuck out in particular.
Generally speaking NMSA really hasn't done anything proactive (other than his push on jamelia, to his credit, but that didn't really go anywhere and he seemed to give up on it and just sheep spangled.)
The Airan wagon hop on felt opportunistic when his jamelia case wasn't really gaining any traction with other players.

All of that being said, I can definitely have a tendency to tunnel people. What do others think? From what i can recall not many people have really weighed in on NMSA. Am I wrong with some of the above posts?

[eth0s]

Spoiler: Page 1-5

to put it simply (and not quite accurately), you're using too many exclamation points. More precisely, it sounds like pocketing/ingratiating yourself with people. In my experience, this comes more from newb!scum wanting to sound genuine than from newb!town who are extremely excited.

I would have joined NMSA in voting Jamelia here for the same reasoning he stated.

to put it simply (and not quite accurately), you're using too many exclamation points. More precisely, it sounds like pocketing/ingratiating yourself with people. In my experience, this comes more from newb!scum wanting to sound genuine than from newb!town who are extremely excited.

Gotcha. Is that like a meta thing? To use too many exclamation points or something?

not specifically meta, but more my experience with the tendency of newb!scum to act extremely excited.

to put it simply (and not quite accurately), you're using too many exclamation points. More precisely, it sounds like pocketing/ingratiating yourself with people. In my experience, this comes more from newb!scum wanting to sound genuine than from newb!town who are extremely excited.

Jamelia’s tone and entrance is certainly different to their only previous newbie game, but I don’t think I can call them scum over it. I am not willing to put my vote there just yet, but I will consider it.

I didn't read her previous game but tonal differences and entrances are a great way to catch newb!scum so if these differences truly exist here it only reinforces what NMSA has said so far.

Scumreading Spangled so far.

May I ask you why?

You're being too passive.

bad
And for the record I am townreading Spangled at this point based mostly on meta (yay!)

@Egix96 where's your head at in regards to the thread?
I don't see real solving from your posts

In my opinion, the game hasn't really yet progressed far enough for me to form any solid reads yet, but based on some ISO-reading:

Airan - They remind me a bit of how I was in my first-ever game (Newbie 1890), in that they seem... well, actually I'm not sure how to put it in words. Maybe it's because, like me, they started their first game with a scum rand, but I don't really feel strongly about that. I'm aware that Jamelia "love[d] that [they were] being 'paranoid'" but to me, 39 is a good example of what I'm talking about here.

Draynth - Not really seeing much in the way of alignment-indicative stuff from him yet. Most of his play so far has simply involved asking questions (also his 'quick tip' in 17) so I would consider him the de facto IC of this game (the Newbie game kind, when those were still a thing).

faustiv - I would like to see more from them first.

Geyde - I think that 62 is a +town observation, though it remains to be seen whether I will end up agreeing with it or not.

Jamelia - Probably not scum with Airan based on first sentence of 47. I can imagine the rest of that post being said from one scum to another, but not the first bit, I think that would just be way too corny
Individually though, not yet sure what to make of him.

NMSA - 56 feels a little bit reachy imo, but I guess that that can be at least partially justified by it being that early in the game. Nothing else from him pings me though.

Spangled - 61 - "...but

I don’t think I can call [Jamelia] scum over it.

I am not willing to put my vote there just yet, but

I will consider it.

" Seems non-committal and maybe self-contradictory?

Veggie - I notice that, like Jamelia, they also end a lot of their sentences with exclamation marks - how has Spam not picked up on that? But I digress.
66 I will admit is not a bad post, but I wouldn't say that it's "the best question asked so far" as Spangled put it... and Airan agreeing with that is... eh? But again I digress.

So with all that said,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Spangled

great observations! Although I still disagree that this is Spangled's scum game so far.

For now:
UNVOTE:

I think this is kinda awkward given that he hasn't responded to Spangled's thoughts on the differences of meta/entrance that Jamelia has shown thus far, kind of reads as a defensive move I guess?

For now:
UNVOTE:

Why the unvote?

Because I want to analyze everything properly and not have my current vote be a RVS vote

Too careful -- worried about self image potentially?

Hmm. I’m not sure I’d put Spangled down as a hard “scumread” at the moment. I agree that they rambled but...so did I. I am leaning towards them trying to help vs. being scummy.

I’d lean towards a scum read of faustiv right now. Not sure how big of a fan I am of the vague questioning and responses. Is this because they don’t want to answer or are they trying not to reveal info?

Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

I like this post other than potentially setting up for a later vote on Spangled. However drawing parallels between both of their play makes this seems like a less likely scenario.

Also, VOTE: faustiv

Why do you feel this way? I also scum read them, but not enough to definitively vote.

still very careful

EBWOP

Scumreading Spangled so far.

May I ask you why?

You're being too passive.

Would you mind answering the below please? It was literally the very next post after Spangled's

Have you played mafia before Faustiv?

Didn't think answering that question would help us find scum.

Yes I have played before.

Also, VOTE: faustiv

Why are you voting me?

Also, VOTE: faustiv

Why do you feel this way? I also scum read them, but not enough to definitively vote.

Why do you scumread me?

Thoughts on Geyde and faüstiv so far, Egix?

Why me and him in particular?

It's hard to point my finger at exactly why I get scumpings from this, but it's the type of defensiveness that I usually feel comes from scum. "why me why me" while putting in very little effort and never pushing the game in a meaningful direction. Like the most content he has provided so far is defending himself or asking why people don't like him. And I do not like that.

Hmm. I’m not sure I’d put Spangled down as a hard “scumread” at the moment. I agree that they rambled but...so did I. I am leaning towards them trying to help vs. being scummy.

I’d lean towards a scum read of faustiv right now. Not sure how big of a fan I am of the vague questioning and responses. Is this because they don’t want to answer or are they trying not to reveal info?

Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

Yes. Keeping my vote for faüstiv atm largely because of the lack of information coming from them. That, and because the only questions they've asked so far are either about why they're under suspicion or why they're being voted.

lol mindmeld

[Jamelia]

Hi eth0s! Great analysis so far, except of course when you say you would have voted for me!

I'd love to hear where your mind is at after reading through.

All of that being said, I can definitely have a tendency to tunnel people. What do others think? From what i can recall not many people have really weighed in on NMSA. Am I wrong with some of the above posts?

- Dryanth

I am still torn on Spam. Obviously we fought earlier and I think that may just be frustration from their part along with my feelings on the Airan (now eth0s) vote almost being "inevitable". I am not sure why Spam would just jump in on the wagon for Airan without any explanation until later.

[eth0s]

Spoiler: Page 6-10

Here is some of my opinions. I have not checked out everyone though.
Draynth seems to be asking lots of questions and not giving lots of answers. Then again, we might want to question him a bit more.
Egix has posted little but his unified opinion was very informative. However, Draynth had to prompt him to post that.
Faustiv was asking lots of questions, but he didn’t elaborate on spangled being ‘too passive’ (I may be mistaken). He also wasn’t giving many answers.
Geyde had made good questions and encouraged people to vote. He had a good argument against spangled but didn’t have tunnel vision and pointed out that there should be a counter-vote by scum if he was right.
BTW @jamelia who do you think is scum?

I still think that faustiv is acting scummy. They’ve been asked a few times now about their passive / questioning tone and they haven’t responded in a way I’d expect someone who’s town would. So, they’re my main scum read. I also am suspicious of Spam, but I’m not sure if that’s because of their tunnel vision of my “exclamation points” or actual content. I like the way they analyze but I don’t necessarily agree with their content

Okay at this point I am/was thinking a faustiv/jamelia scumteam is possible due to their limited interaction with each other and jamelia being so hesitant to vote faustiv while seemingly trying to earn some kind of potential towncred for stating he would? Like I see this scenario where scum!faustiv is playing this newbscum game, Jamelia is (in their PT) trying to get him to progress the game or at least post some meaningful content and he is either refusing, not answering, or simply not obliging. I think scum!jamelia would see it quite likely that the faustiv wagon will get to a point where he feels forced to vote on it, and therefore is leaving open this possibility that he

will

vote faustiv if he doesn't step up his game like Jamelia has been asking him to in the pt.

I know it seems weird that I posted this paragraph after that quote, and it is weird. I should have brought it up earlier in my catch up but I thought that this was the first thing that jamelia has said about faustiv to actually make me doubt this theory, although still not voting him makes me believe my above theory still holds some weight.

Here is some of my opinions. I have not checked out everyone though.
Draynth seems to be asking lots of questions and not giving lots of answers. Then again, we might want to question him a bit more.
Egix has posted little but his unified opinion was very informative. However, Draynth had to prompt him to post that.
Faustiv was asking lots of questions, but he didn’t elaborate on spangled being ‘too passive’ (I may be mistaken). He also wasn’t giving many answers.
Geyde had made good questions and encouraged people to vote. He had a good argument against spangled but didn’t have tunnel vision and pointed out that there should be a counter-vote by scum if he was right.
BTW @jamelia who do you think is scum?

I still think that faustiv is acting scummy. They’ve been asked a few times now about their passive / questioning tone and they haven’t responded in a way I’d expect someone who’s town would. So, they’re my main scum read. I also am suspicious of Spam, but I’m not sure if that’s because of their tunnel vision of my “exclamation points” or actual content. I like the way they analyze but I don’t necessarily agree with their content

Apologies if this sounds like a rehash of an earlier post directed at you.
Not putting a vote out for faüstiv seems contradictory to what you're saying about them being your main scum read. I do understand that you said you're wary of hammering someone who actually might be town but if faüstiv is your main scum read right now, then... huh???
If you had to put percentages on faüstiv (example: 60% scum and 40% town), what would they be?

again, (mostly) mind meld. But I don't care about the % thing that's pretty useless question imo and feels kinda weird


Okay, Veggie is my Spangled in this game. What I mean by this is in my first game with spangled, I replaced in, thought all of his posts were pretty awesome (barring a few weird quirks) and more or less fought the whole game to get him to vote with me and see my perspective (we were both town). I like veggie a lot so far and spangled is town based on meta so this is my mini townbloc so far. Anyway, moving on:

@Geyde
When quoting large stretches of posts, please use a spoiler= tag; it makes the thread far less cluttered.
Uh... as to Spam... I don’t really see what you’re saying there. I agree that the additional reason for voting was slightly reachy, but I can still see it coming from town, and I think that they were trying to make the read concise; I get the feeling that there was more behind it. I also did not see the interaction as forced, at least not from Spam’s side. Could you tell me if there were any

particular

bits about the interaction that felt forced?

His reason for voting was contradictory since other players at that time exhibited the same behaviors, but he chose to focus on Jam (notably Veg [?] to my memory). That's why his push is forced in my mind.

As for your feeling about more being behind the read, I would disagree.
What I think what happened was he thought he had a very strong point against Jam in order to start a push, but after posting he doesn't have anything to add on besides restating his conclusion when prompted. Additionally, if he had more to add, then why has he never revisited his push?

I kinda see where geyde is coming from here but I think that effort is what differentiates why NMSA would be pushing jamelia rather then veggie.

Here is some of my opinions. I have not checked out everyone though.
Draynth seems to be asking lots of questions and not giving lots of answers. Then again, we might want to question him a bit more.
Egix has posted little but his unified opinion was very informative. However, Draynth had to prompt him to post that.
Faustiv was asking lots of questions, but he didn’t elaborate on spangled being ‘too passive’ (I may be mistaken). He also wasn’t giving many answers.
Geyde had made good questions and encouraged people to vote. He had a good argument against spangled but didn’t have tunnel vision and pointed out that there should be a counter-vote by scum if he was right.
BTW @jamelia who do you think is scum?

I still think that faustiv is acting scummy. They’ve been asked a few times now about their passive / questioning tone and they haven’t responded in a way I’d expect someone who’s town would. So, they’re my main scum read. I also am suspicious of Spam, but I’m not sure if that’s because of their tunnel vision of my “exclamation points” or actual content. I like the way they analyze but I don’t necessarily agree with their content

Apologies if this sounds like a rehash of an earlier post directed at you.
Not putting a vote out for faüstiv seems contradictory to what you're saying about them being your main scum read. I do understand that you said you're wary of hammering someone who actually might be town but if faüstiv is your main scum read right now, then... huh???
If you had to put percentages on faüstiv (example: 60% scum and 40% town), what would they be?

My reasoning for NOT voting for them wasn’t because I don’t think they’re scum, but because they haven’t responded to any of the criticism of their posts. They’ve avoided the question. I’d like to hear their response before I give a vote. I like to be definitive with my vote compared to just constantly unvoting/voting. I understand that it creates pressure but I don’t find that as effective as learning as much information as possible before voting.

Right now I’d put Faustiv at 70% scum, 30% town. 30 if they are just waiting to see if other people think they’re scum too, and 70 because I think they’re just trying to have the attention shift on others.

—-

As for Spam, although I do think that they have tunnel vision on me, I don’t believe their questioning and analysis is necessarily scummy. I’d like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they’re at least analyzing a lot of the game and have set their sets on one specific thing. I think that Spam would help us more if he focused on others just as much as he focused on me, but I digress.

Nope. If you want answers you vote for pressure. Others have already made this point but I still see this as distancing in case Jamelia feels like he needs to hammer faustiv later. And if you thought spam was tunneling on you then you're probably not going to like me.

Hmm, I briefly skimmed through jamelia's other game play (newbie 1953) and he only lay down two votes in that entire game (which lasted 3 day phases)
Perhaps it really is just a playstyle thing

okay. slightly less townpings from Jamelia so far then I guess? I hate this playstyle though. Please use votes. Also kinda townleaning draynth based on meta so far? oh so slightly

Spoiler:

Also, VOTE: faustiv

Why do you feel this way? I also scum read them, but not enough to definitively vote.

It's early d1, and you're not voting anyone rn. you should be.

I was voting someone early D1 until we actually were getting votes that were related to game play and not RVS. In my last game, we hammered on a town way too early and didn’t even get to hear a defense from the person (who was town and I believed was town) to speak, and then D2 we hammered and lost an opportunity for good information. I just am being more careful this time and preventing that from happening.

At the time of me unvoting on Faustiv, they had 3 votes on them. I just brought it down to two; which is still pressure, in my opinion.

Sharing some reads I've had so far.

Airan - seems more town than scum for me at this point. Posting about bandwagoning as early as they did doesn’t seem like a scum thing to do, purely because I feel it might have drawn more attention than scum might have wanted. Could be wrong though.

Draynth - Has asked questions that could be indicative of other town or scum. I feel that putting a second vote on faüstiv without a justification (102) is the first scum-play that’s come from them.

Spam - Tbh, I find their style of play to be provocative. Examples: Bandwagoning (7) and putting a vote out there that’s not rvs (52). For this reason, atm I read them as more likely to be town than scum. They’ve gone quiet as of late though? @Spam, do you have any opinions on the game thus far?

Faustiv - Not enough info coming from them! Has only asked questions about why they’re under suspicion or being voted. Most likely scum-read for me atm.

No strong read on Spangled just yet but I even I thought the early townread on me (while appreciated) felt premature. Not entirely sure why that would make them more likely to be scum though?

Updating this after reviewing the thread for a little bit.

Jamelia - I have rising suspicions because of the non-committal type posts they've been making regarding voting faüstiv. Both Draynth and Spangled have asked them "why not vote?" already. I am aware that Jamelia's response was that they wanted to analyse faüstiv's responses but I feel as though faüstiv has had ample time to give responses and we haven't seen many substantial ones so far. I'm surprised that Geyde has not said anything about this, given that they talk about applying info in a solving sense or trying to push the game further with questions.

@Geyde

What are your thoughts on faüstiv? I'm going to ask the same question that I asked Jamelia... based on the content that faüstiv has put out so far, if you had to put a percentage on them (example: 60% scum 40% town), what would it be?

I haven't read into them since I don't think the slot will be easily resolved outside of reading into their votes, of which I haven't seen in substantial amount

Here is some of my opinions. I have not checked out everyone though.
Draynth seems to be asking lots of questions and not giving lots of answers. Then again, we might want to question him a bit more.
Egix has posted little but his unified opinion was very informative. However, Draynth had to prompt him to post that.
Faustiv was asking lots of questions, but he didn’t elaborate on spangled being ‘too passive’ (I may be mistaken). He also wasn’t giving many answers.
Geyde had made good questions and encouraged people to vote. He had a good argument against spangled but didn’t have tunnel vision and pointed out that there should be a counter-vote by scum if he was right.
BTW @jamelia who do you think is scum?

I still think that faustiv is acting scummy. They’ve been asked a few times now about their passive / questioning tone and they haven’t responded in a way I’d expect someone who’s town would. So, they’re my main scum read. I also am suspicious of Spam, but I’m not sure if that’s because of their tunnel vision of my “exclamation points” or actual content. I like the way they analyze but I don’t necessarily agree with their content

Apologies if this sounds like a rehash of an earlier post directed at you.
Not putting a vote out for faüstiv seems contradictory to what you're saying about them being your main scum read. I do understand that you said you're wary of hammering someone who actually might be town but if faüstiv is your main scum read right now, then... huh???
If you had to put percentages on faüstiv (example: 60% scum and 40% town), what would they be?

My reasoning for NOT voting for them wasn’t because I don’t think they’re scum, but because they haven’t responded to any of the criticism of their posts. They’ve avoided the question. I’d like to hear their response before I give a vote. I like to be definitive with my vote compared to just constantly unvoting/voting. I understand that it creates pressure but I don’t find that as effective as learning as much information as possible before voting.

Right now I’d put Faustiv at 70% scum, 30% town. 30 if they are just waiting to see if other people think they’re scum too, and 70 because I think they’re just trying to have the attention shift on others.

—-

As for Spam, although I do think that they have tunnel vision on me, I don’t believe their questioning and analysis is necessarily scummy. I’d like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they’re at least analyzing a lot of the game and have set their sets on one specific thing. I think that Spam would help us more if he focused on others just as much as he focused on me, but I digress.

I've gathered from these posts that Geyde and Jam are both reluctant to put a vote on faüstiv because they’re waiting for an opportunity to analyse a response/vote. Judging by the way that faüstiv has posted over the last 7 pages (mainly asking why they’re under suspicion with a one-sentence read on Spangled thrown in), I don’t think this is likely to happen anytime soon!
I am wondering if this might be because Geyde and Jam are a scum-team and would like to keep a player like faüstiv alive for a few more rounds as they’d be an easy mislynch for town?

While following that line I've thought, UNVOTE: faüstiv for now.

Well, like I said before. I don’t really have a major scum read on anyone else besides faustiv, but at least everyone else can stick up for themselves if I DID have something to go off of. Whether it’s me just being stupid or trying not to pick at things that I don’t think really exist (like, using exclamation points), I just want to make sure we are lynching the right person.

I’ve said this before, but we had 2 days where people hammered way too quickly, which resulted in a mislynch and a round where an “easy lynch” happened and we didn’t gain that much more information. I agree that faustiv has had an opportunity to defend themself, and the reason I’ve been waiting is to see if they would give something away in their response.

I’m not sure if that’ll happen at this point.

VOTE: faustiv [/unvote]

VOTE: faustiv

sorry just woke up!

VOTE: NotMySpamAccount
I like Geyde's point in 156
NMSA's reasoning behind jamelia's tone being wrong felt kind of forced and it's something I could imagine scum!Draynth saying
NMSA is also lurking a worrying amount (albeit he's not alone in that)

Why Spam over Faustiv?

fuck

VOTE: NotMySpamAccount
I like Geyde's point in 156
NMSA's reasoning behind jamelia's tone being wrong felt kind of forced and it's something I could imagine scum!Draynth saying
NMSA is also lurking a worrying amount (albeit he's not alone in that)

Draynth: jam's lack of voting might just be aplaystyle thing
Also Draynth: spam is lurking early d1, mumst be scum.

anyone who's played with me can tell you I do this every game.

I do like veggie's reasoning in 164 and 165.

Also, everyone keeps referring to the exclamation point thing, which I said in the post was not entirely accurate. It's not just the number of exclamation points, but the entire tone of the posts. Veggie's posts come across as much more sincere. That's why I'm voting Jam.

Thread counterwagon for Spam seems to be Jam at this point.

I really don't like this response by Spam here.
They mainly shadethrow their accusers while also setting up a push onto Jam without a lot of the thought process I'd expect of town being pushed.

They notably omit:

- Any analysis of 164 and 165
- Any showing of the difference between Veggie's posts and Jam's posts

Their response therefore sounds more like panicked scum trying to get ground back rather than someone seriously trying to analyze players and their motivations.

I'd expect town that's being pushed to try to clarify the viewpoint they are being pushed for as much as possible.
Instead, Spam supports posts that could support a push on Jam, one of the only valid counterwagons at this point in the game.

His 'clarification' doesn't have any analysis to it whatsoever.
Why are Veg's posts so much more sincere?
I've quoted the ones in question and I don't see that from what they've posted in the past

Sure, recent Veg is really good.
But Past Veg left nothing to the imagination whatsoever in a crafted way. (38, 44, 46)

Reads:

Airan - Null leaning town
Draynth - Town
Egix96 - Null leaning scum
Geyde - Scum
Jamellia - Town
Spangled - Town
Veggie - Null but most probably town

VOTE: Geyde

Spam - Null leaning scum

Liking geyde's points here a lot. And I think faustiv is the obvscum winner of the game. But, assuming Jamelia is town here (which I am slightly coming around to the idea of) I think NMSA is a decent partner for scum!faustiv. I think we get more information out of an NMSA lynch so that's where I would be voting at this point.

I’m not accusing anyone, but spam seemed eager to Lynch veggie, after someone had already voted to lynch veggie.

I find it scummy because instead of voting for anyone else to check reactions, he voted for someone who had already been voted for.

I am not saying spam is a scum, or that you should vote for him. I am just saying that what he did was scummy

VOTE: faustiv

Sorry, reposting because I voted the incorrect way before!

Why are you voting me?

This might be because you seem (through no fault of your own) a bit of a lurker.

Yeah, I think that spam has got tunnel vision. Not sure if this makes him scum...

Ew ew ew. I want to... crawl away from my computer and wash my hands; it reminds me of my first game (which was as scum) and that's some serious PTSD right there; I don't want to be reminded of that game ever again.

'I’m not accusing anyone'
'I am not saying spam is a scum, or that you should vote for him. I am just saying that what he did was scummy'
'might be because you seem (through no fault of your own) a bit of a lurker'
'Not sure if this makes him scum...'

Conciliation coupled with opinions without thoughts or even...

bite

(if I can put it like that); a

point

behind them.
Throwing shade but retracting it in the same post; observations without

anything

behind or following from them. This is newbscum. VOTE: Airan303

I have a newbtown slot. Please do not let that interfere with the way you read me. Normally the request I just made would be ridiculous (and is part of how I caught Osuka in our town game together, remember?) but no lynch has been achieved, my slot had very little in the way of associations, and I would say all of the action from it up to this point in my catchup is NAI and could be newbscum or newbtown (it's newbtown).

Spangled is raising a few good points here. Perhaps I will have to reread Airan.

Jamellia- I will respond later when I have access to a computer.

Just checked him. Yeah this guy is screaming scum to me. Don’t know how I missed that.

UNVOTE: Geyde[\unvote]

VOTE: Airan303[\vote]

For clarification:

VOTE: Airan303

ew ew and ew

Jamellia why are you ok with an Airan lynch if I’m on the bandwagon? I’m one of your scumreads and I am advocating this lynch. Do you think me and Airan are a team?

I am ok with it if I believe that the response Airan gives is inadequate and scummy. I already said I don’t agree with the idea of Aidan being scum, but people expose themselves when the pressure is on, especially new players (from what I saw in my last game).

If that’s the case, then I may be wrong about you. For now, you’re still my main scumread which is why my
vote hasn’t changed off of you.

ok cool Jamelia actually might be town

UNVOTE: Airan303

I still think he’s mafia, but I don’t want anyone hammering him before he or his replacement responds to the points made against him.

this is like the third time he didn't use vote tags (after being told how to multiple times and proving that he knows how to earlier) is it too tinfoily to say that there may be a reason for this beyond honest mistakes?

OH FUCK AM I SERIOUSLY GONNA GET LYNCHED

[Draynth]

re. the faustiv vote tags thing
That's actually something I noticed too.
In the last game I played I didn't spot a hammer bait and pre-emptively fakeclaimed a really bad claim as scum. Now I was just having some fun as I thought I was dead but I'd never even have thought to check whether it was a bait or not.
It's made me be far more vigilant of votes / potential fake voting and it struck me too faustiv might be trying to gain fake townpoints or something with it

[Draynth]

for anybody curious the hammer bait mentioned above is here

[eth0s]

Spoiler: Page 11 up to my "catching up" post

How easily this Airan wagon has built up is slightly concerning and makes me think there's at least 1 scum on it, but given he hasn't been here to defend himself that (gut) feeling doesn't have as much merit as it would typically.

Aye.
If there had to be 1 scum on it, who do you think it would be?

out of {Spangled, NMSA, Egix}
I'd say NMSA
Faustiv was technically never on it and then unvoted, but I've actually liked their recent posting regardless

Hard agree! Save me draynth!

Faustiv why do you continuously only show up whenever you're mentioned as being scumread by someone

Didn’t know I was?

Anyway it seems as if most of the playerbase here are from the US so it could be down to timezone difference.

well you never gave that case or elaboration you promised and are doing exactly what draynth accused you of, so...

My question wasn’t attacking you. I was asking if you had many any strong reads before, and I considered that one a strong read. You don’t have to get defensive.

I am not sure why you didn’t just say at the time, “I don’t have a scumread on anyone else, and Jamelia has posted the scummiest to me right now.”, without going into the “you’ll just have to trust me and ISO their posts :/“ reasoning.

that wasn't all I said, so that's another misrep. I argued from my experience, and only told other people to iso you when my original explanation failed to get my point across.

A cherrypicker calling someone a cherrypicker?

The above interaction looks T v T.

WRONG

The above interaction looks T v T.

this is a scummy post

+1

The above interaction looks T v T.

this is a scummy post

agree

+1

[eth0s]

Catching up

Man I don’t want to play against you when you’re scum dude.
Alternatively, show yourself to be obvtown in your catchup and I can ignore those almost-scumtells from Airan.

Have you seen my scum game? I don't think it's very good

[eth0s]

There's something I

really

wanted to do after my catch up but I don't think we have enough deadline time for it. Is anyone else on board if I request further extension? I don't think it would be granted but I hate that I am here near the end of a day and it's preventing me from doing a thing