newbie 1956 - car seat headrest [we gotta go back]

[eth0s]

The quick progression of votes suggests he’s town. Also everyone in my scumpool has a vote on him.

then how do you explain the wagon on my slot

There was sound logic from Spangled on why he thought Airan was scum. I fail to see any of that same sound logic from anyone on why NMSA is scum.

Am I just supposed ignore the fact that you just directly contradicted yourself by saying that my wagon speed wasn't suspicious and nmsa's was? And maybe YOU think that airan's wagon had sound logic on it and nmsa's doesnt -- but that's just it. That's YOUR opinion. There's other people in the game with other opinions than you. So what you just said really has zero substance

[eth0s]

also p sure faustiv is trying to buddy me rn.

What would I gain from buddying you as mafia? If anything I’m making myself more suspect by doing so.

Trust that I’m town and vote eth0s with me.

you'd gain some cred for having an "accurate read." no, I don't trust you to be town, and no, there's no way I'm helping lynch eth0s today.

I’m eth0s’ top scumread yet he is voting you. Does that not trigger any alarm bells?

For what it’s worth, this is the best content Faustiv has given all game.

I actually agree with this.

also p sure faustiv is trying to buddy me rn.

What would I gain from buddying you as mafia? If anything I’m making myself more suspect by doing so.

Trust that I’m town and vote eth0s with me.

you'd gain some cred for having an "accurate read." no, I don't trust you to be town, and no, there's no way I'm helping lynch eth0s today.

I’m eth0s’ top scumread yet he is voting you. Does that not trigger any alarm bells?

For what it’s worth, this is the best content Faustiv has given all game. I actually agree with this.

I only made 3 posts explaining why nmsa is a better lynch.

I agree with Faustiv that I’m surprised Spam is your vote when Faustiv is your main scum lead, not the last part where they say it’s scummy

. I just think this is making it harder than it may need to be.

Also, what does “flip green” mean

am I the only one scratching my head trying to figure out what this is supposed to mean

[eth0s]

Also why is Egix being given a pass for doing a complete 180 on eth0s because ‘he put effort in’ then signaled intent to hammer on NMSA without giving any reasoning as to why.

where is he given a free pass? if he hammers nmsa and it flips red I will probably read it as a bus and hard pursue him tomorrow. and I literally already called him out for saying nothing more about my catch up than the effort he put in

[Jamelia]

I agree with Faustiv that I don’t understand why you are trying to get Spam lynched when you said that your main scum lead was Faustiv. I don’t disagree with your take on Spam, and I don’t agree that wanting to lynch Spam makes you scummy.

All I’m saying is that if your main scum lead is Faustiv, I’m not sure why he isn’t being voted. This is from experience from my first game (last game 1953) where the “obvious vote” slipped through the cracks D1, and we mislynched a townie over someone who was proven scummy.

[Draynth]

I guess he agrees with faustiv that your vote is odd, but he doesn't find it scummy?

[eth0s]

it actually seems like faustiv fundamentally should be agreeing with me and townreading me based on some of the stances he is taking but... can't because he isn't town?

[eth0s]

I agree with Faustiv that I don’t understand why you are trying to get Spam lynched when you said that your main scum lead was Faustiv. I don’t disagree with your take on Spam, and I don’t agree that wanting to lynch Spam makes you scummy.

All I’m saying is that if your main scum lead is Faustiv, I’m not sure why he isn’t being voted. This is from experience from my first game (last game 1953) where the “obvious vote” slipped through the cracks D1, and we mislynched a townie over someone who was proven scummy.

look let me say this in the most blunt way I can.

if we lynch faustiv today and he flips red then perhaps it really does become as easy as lynching nmsa day 2 and winning. sure there are more associations that could potentially be drawn, but there are a lot more to be seen from nmsa, I think.

if we lynch faustiv and he turns out to be a mislynch then what do we really gain? I guess it's kind of the same scenario no matter what alignment he is but I just feel that we will have more information to work with tomorrow if nmsa is the one to hang.

[Draynth]

his hard defence of NMSA bothers me a lot tbh
like i said previously his only mention of NMSA was calling him Null / scum lean (which he actually left out of his overall "reads" post and had to quickly post it afterwards as if he had forgotten about it / was making it up or something)
then he's certain that NMSA is town based on vote progression but the one on airan was just as bad if not worse

[eth0s]

I guess we are kind of starting to see more interactions from him so maybe that info gap is closing slowly, I'm not quite sure. But I'm not a fan of NMSA's recent posts either and feel as though he has done nothing to change my mind about lynching him

[eth0s]

then he's certain that NMSA is town based on vote progression but the one on airan was just as bad if not worse

the airan wagon speed WAS worse

[eth0s]

that's what I don't understand

[eth0s]

*spends most of the game only posting to defend himself*
*blindly sheeps the airan wagon adding little/no reasoning of his own*
*wagon gains traction stupid fast*
*"unvotes" because of the speed of said wagon because it is so fast*
*new wagon appears on NMSA that doesn't gain traction at nearly the same speed as the airan wagon*
*more differing opinions and reasonings are posted for it than the airan wagon*
*it essentially serves as a counter-wagon to airans*
faustiv: "that wagon went up too fast!"
*revotes me, still providing no new reasoning aside from "his scumreads closely match those of others"

[eth0s]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: faustiv

I'm done with this BS

[Jamelia]

I agree with Faustiv that I don’t understand why you are trying to get Spam lynched when you said that your main scum lead was Faustiv. I don’t disagree with your take on Spam, and I don’t agree that wanting to lynch Spam makes you scummy.

All I’m saying is that if your main scum lead is Faustiv, I’m not sure why he isn’t being voted. This is from experience from my first game (last game 1953) where the “obvious vote” slipped through the cracks D1, and we mislynched a townie over someone who was proven scummy.

look let me say this in the most blunt way I can.

if we lynch faustiv today and he flips red then perhaps it really does become as easy as lynching nmsa day 2 and winning. sure there are more associations that could potentially be drawn, but there are a lot more to be seen from nmsa, I think.

if we lynch faustiv and he turns out to be a mislynch then what do we really gain? I guess it's kind of the same scenario no matter what alignment he is but I just feel that we will have more information to work with tomorrow if nmsa is the one to hang.

Nah I get it that makes sense. I’m not saying this is scummy I just think it’s more risky.

[Jamelia]

*spends most of the game only posting to defend himself*
*blindly sheeps the airan wagon adding little/no reasoning of his own*
*wagon gains traction stupid fast*
*"unvotes" because of the speed of said wagon because it is so fast*
*new wagon appears on NMSA that doesn't gain traction at nearly the same speed as the airan wagon*
*more differing opinions and reasonings are posted for it than the airan wagon*
*it essentially serves as a counter-wagon to airans*
faustiv: "that wagon went up too fast!"
*revotes me, still providing no new reasoning aside from "his scumreads closely match those of others"

This is my exact line of thinking at this point lol. And he’s been trying to buddy up to me this ENTIRE time. “Jamelia is FOR SURE town.” “That looks like a T v T interaction” it’s just really trying hard to turn the main person who’s been against him away from my scum lead.

I’ve never wavered on my vote on Faustiv and since the beginning I’ve scumread them. I took other people’s opinions into consideration and even stalled my vote until Faustiv responded but to me it seems like Faustiv is being reactive instead of proactively trying to help us

[Egix96]

UNVOTE:

Daaamn. eth0s, if you went to all that effort after replacing into a scum slot, then knock me down.

Intent to hammer

Let's get one thing straight. This isn't about effort. In this scenario, for any sensible person replacing into the slot that I did, effort isn't a choice and it is not AI.

If I'm scum then everything I've done so far is based around a primary goal of winning the game and a secondary goal of manipulating the game and bringing as much chaos as I can into the game given fake reads and stances that are meant to confuse the town post-flip.

If I'm town then the primary goal is the same, but the secondary concerns getting as much of my perspective out there as I can in case I die.

I can tell you one thing for certain: I'm going to try my ass off in either scenario.

It's the content of and perceived motivation behind the effort that should make you want to vote/unvote me.
So if you're simply removing your vote due to my effort you might as well throw it right back on there.

Right, if it's not alignment indicative then I understand. My line of thinking was that if *I* were in your position then I would have felt a lot more motivation to do work if the slot had been town rather than scum, as town is my preferred alignment.

[eth0s]

Another reason that I am now okay with lynching faustiv instead: he is a liability in lylo/mylo. if this is his town game then WTF how do we not end up mislynching him at a more critical point?

[eth0s]

UNVOTE:

Daaamn. eth0s, if you went to all that effort after replacing into a scum slot, then knock me down.

Intent to hammer

Let's get one thing straight. This isn't about effort. In this scenario, for any sensible person replacing into the slot that I did, effort isn't a choice and it is not AI.

If I'm scum then everything I've done so far is based around a primary goal of winning the game and a secondary goal of manipulating the game and bringing as much chaos as I can into the game given fake reads and stances that are meant to confuse the town post-flip.

If I'm town then the primary goal is the same, but the secondary concerns getting as much of my perspective out there as I can in case I die.

I can tell you one thing for certain: I'm going to try my ass off in either scenario.

It's the content of and perceived motivation behind the effort that should make you want to vote/unvote me.
So if you're simply removing your vote due to my effort you might as well throw it right back on there.

Right, if it's not alignment indicative then I understand. My line of thinking was that if *I* were in your position then I would have felt a lot more motivation to do work if the slot had been town rather than scum, as town is my preferred alignment.

Cool, understandable. Sorry if it seemed harsh the way I worded that but I do not want to be townread for effort. I think it's a bad principle to set.

Would you care to join this faustiv wagon? Regardless of your answer to this, could you provide an updated readlist?

[NotMySpamAccount]

@eth0s or NMSA
Have you two played together before?

yeah I just played a game against him recently where I was town and he was scum and I got a guilty result on him and another townie threw the game

to be fair, you guys had lost the game long before that. there was no way you guys would have pulled that out, despite the guilty.

[eth0s]

I was secretly SRing your partner so I kinda disagree but that's about the extent that I'll argue/discuss it. I'm still a little salty over it not gonna lie

[Egix96]

Cool, understandable. Sorry if it seemed harsh the way I worded that but I do not want to be townread for effort. I think it's a bad principle to set.

Would you care to join this faustiv wagon? Regardless of your answer to this, could you provide an updated readlist?

- No problem, mate.

- I wanna catch up a bit first before I make a decision on that.

- I'm aware that Spangled asked me this as well, but I'd rather not spend ~2 hours typing one up when there's stuff going on currently. Also, it's a Friday evening where I am so... yeah

[Draynth]

ethos when you played with NMSA was he as "apathetic", maybe for want of a better word maybe not, on day 1 as scum?

[eth0s]

for anyone interested this is the game I played with NMSA where he was scum https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=80584& I could certainly draw parallels but I won't act like he's playing the exact same game

[eth0s]

it's a very short game and his ISO is only 35 posts so I urge everyone to read it and think about it themselves.

[eth0s]

ethos when you played with NMSA was he as "apathetic", maybe for want of a better word maybe not, on day 1 as scum?

that game played way differently. I don't think he was ever under any pressure day one and the discussion was on a totally different route than this game's discussion is. hard to compare it in that way