newbie 1956 - car seat headrest [we gotta go back]

[Draynth]

You need to think if it's actually scummy though. You might think it's rude or unhelpful to town but I can see it coming from a frustrated town POV because it doesn't really do anything for scum!ethos

[eth0s]

like you can't even challenge my case on you, you have nothing to say about how flat out wrong you are about how nmsa's wagon formed more organically than mine did, nothing to say about your blind sheep on the wagon, nothing to say about the very person you sheeped changing stances because the 5 lines of completely NAI newb posts mean nothing compared to the things I have pointed out and provided today. You are scared scum backed into a corner and even in this fantasy land where I get lynched today you go down so fast tomorrow it's not even funny

[Jamelia]

No I absolutely think it’s town-sided with just complete frustration. But I’m not sure how someone who came in with this super analytical posting sequence and really great reads has suddenly turned into an emotional mess in the same frame.

I agree Faustiv is scum but I’d love if we can just keep the posts to actual analysis versus fighting about nothing

[eth0s]

I'm just getting mad as hell because I am actually starting to wonder if he is playing a horrible town game because why would scum cherrypick me so goddamn hard and just make such blatantly false statements over and over instead of actually challenging ANYTHING i say

[Jamelia]

This is the first time someone has put any amount of pressure on eth0s that was created from his own takes. All the rest of the pressure came from what Airan originally did, which (to be fair) multiple people agreed was scummy. I didn’t, but that’s beyond the point.

Eth0s I really don’t know why you’re freaking out about this

[Jamelia]

I'm just getting mad as hell because I am actually starting to wonder if he is playing a horrible town game because why would scum cherrypick me so goddamn hard and just make such blatantly false statements over and over instead of actually challenging ANYTHING i say

Well if that’s the case, do we unvote then? I am not going to vote for someone just because they aren’t going to help us but they ARE town. I would choose to vote scum over an unhelpful town every single time. And right now I’m starting to lean towards that from Faustiv at this point. It’s scummy and wrong but I don’t know why Faustiv would fight so hard when they had a L-1 on Spam and hasn’t voted that way. If they were scum wouldn’t have they just hammered and acted stupid like you have accused him of before with the vote tags???

[Jamelia]

I’m either really stupid and falling for this or I’m starting to think Faustiv is just a reactive townie. I need to step away for a second and re-read everything LOL

[Draynth]

In theory it could be some sort of mega gambit where both NMSA and faustiv are scum but I think that's unlikely

It's a good point that faustiv could've sat by and let spam be lynched, but given he was a close second to be lynched after eth0s joined i don't think it's unlikely that he would try to do something proactive to gain some town cred
Honestly it's really difficult to sort all of this without any flips to draw some more concrete interactions from

[Jamelia]

At the time though, the top two vote getters were Airan/Ethos and Spam. I was the only one actually on Faustiv until Eth0s switched today

[Jamelia]

In my opinion:

If Faustiv is scum and Spam isn’t, Faustiv would have hammered on Spam already without any warning.

So they’re either both scum, neither are scum, or Spam is scum with someone else.

[faüstiv]

Also, VOTE: faustiv

Why do you feel this way? I also scum read them, but not enough to definitively vote.

It's early d1, and you're not voting anyone rn. you should be.

I like the tone in this post. I think his reasoning for scumreading Jamelia is weird but as it was so early on in the game, you have to shake the tree to see what falls I suppose.

I’m not accusing anyone, but spam seemed eager to Lynch veggie, after someone had already voted to lynch veggie.

I find it scummy because instead of voting for anyone else to check reactions, he voted for someone who had already been voted for.

I am not saying spam is a scum, or that you should vote for him. I am just saying that what he did was scummy

VOTE: faustiv

Sorry, reposting because I voted the incorrect way before!

Why are you voting me?

This might be because you seem (through no fault of your own) a bit of a lurker.

Yeah, I think that spam has got tunnel vision. Not sure if this makes him scum...

Ew ew ew. I want to... crawl away from my computer and wash my hands; it reminds me of my first game (which was as scum) and that's some serious PTSD right there; I don't want to be reminded of that game ever again.

'I’m not accusing anyone'
'I am not saying spam is a scum, or that you should vote for him. I am just saying that what he did was scummy'
'might be because you seem (through no fault of your own) a bit of a lurker'
'Not sure if this makes him scum...'

Conciliation coupled with opinions without thoughts or even...

bite

(if I can put it like that); a

point

behind them.
Throwing shade but retracting it in the same post; observations without

anything

behind or following from them. This is newbscum. VOTE: Airan303

ok yeah I see what you mean, also I'm sheeping spangled until further notice.

VOTE: Airan

People scumread this. I don't. His 'until further notice' is not alignment indicative. In fact this post coincides with his lazy play.

VOTE: NotMySpamAccount
I like Geyde's point in 156
NMSA's reasoning behind jamelia's tone being wrong felt kind of forced and it's something I could imagine scum!Draynth saying
NMSA is also lurking a worrying amount (albeit he's not alone in that)

Draynth: jam's lack of voting might just be aplaystyle thing
Also Draynth: spam is lurking early d1, mumst be scum.

anyone who's played with me can tell you I do this every game.

I do like veggie's reasoning in 164 and 165.

Also, everyone keeps referring to the exclamation point thing, which I said in the post was not entirely accurate. It's not just the number of exclamation points, but the entire tone of the posts. Veggie's posts come across as much more sincere. That's why I'm voting Jam.

Thread counterwagon for Spam seems to be Jam at this point.

I really don't like this response by Spam here.
They mainly shadethrow their accusers while also setting up a push onto Jam without a lot of the thought process I'd expect of town being pushed.

They notably omit:

- Any analysis of 164 and 165
- Any showing of the difference between Veggie's posts and Jam's posts

Their response therefore sounds more like panicked scum trying to get ground back rather than someone seriously trying to analyze players and their motivations.

eh, I tend to shadethrow with sarcasm a lot. I'll do a full case on Jam in a few hours I think, but I'll make a quick response here. 164 and 165 have reasoning that comes off as thought-out and sincere, like he's putting in the effort to make his reasoning very clear. As someone usually too lazy to do that unless I'm being pushed, I respect that, and tr it. Again, the difference with Jam is tone. I'm not good at explaining it in words, so I kinda have to just tell you to read both of their isos, and hope that you see what I do. As I said, iso deep dives on content as well as tone incoming in a few hours unless rl gets in the way.

Spam, why should I not consider this post to be a strong read?

because I literally say I can't really explain it myself? because I give p much one small reason to sr you, and that's enough for me to vote because I hadn't found much scummy stuff from anyone else yet? Because it's before page 10, so almost no strong srs are accurate?

My question wasn’t attacking you. I was asking if you had many any strong reads before, and I considered that one a strong read. You don’t have to get defensive.

I am not sure why you didn’t just say at the time, “I don’t have a scumread on anyone else, and Jamelia has posted the scummiest to me right now.”, without going into the “you’ll just have to trust me and ISO their posts :/“ reasoning.

that wasn't all I said, so that's another misrep. I argued from my experience, and only told other people to iso you when my original explanation failed to get my point across.

VOTE: NotMySpamAccount
I like Geyde's point in 156
NMSA's reasoning behind jamelia's tone being wrong felt kind of forced and it's something I could imagine scum!Draynth saying
NMSA is also lurking a worrying amount (albeit he's not alone in that)

Draynth: jam's lack of voting might just be aplaystyle thing
Also Draynth: spam is lurking early d1, mumst be scum.

anyone who's played with me can tell you I do this every game.

I do like veggie's reasoning in 164 and 165.

Also, everyone keeps referring to the exclamation point thing, which I said in the post was not entirely accurate. It's not just the number of exclamation points, but the entire tone of the posts. Veggie's posts come across as much more sincere. That's why I'm voting Jam.

Thread counterwagon for Spam seems to be Jam at this point.

I really don't like this response by Spam here.
They mainly shadethrow their accusers while also setting up a push onto Jam without a lot of the thought process I'd expect of town being pushed.

They notably omit:

- Any analysis of 164 and 165
- Any showing of the difference between Veggie's posts and Jam's posts

Their response therefore sounds more like panicked scum trying to get ground back rather than someone seriously trying to analyze players and their motivations.

eh, I tend to shadethrow with sarcasm a lot. I'll do a full case on Jam in a few hours I think, but I'll make a quick response here. 164 and 165 have reasoning that comes off as thought-out and sincere, like he's putting in the effort to make his reasoning very clear. As someone usually too lazy to do that unless I'm being pushed, I respect that, and tr it. Again, the difference with Jam is tone. I'm not good at explaining it in words, so I kinda have to just tell you to read both of their isos, and hope that you see what I do. As I said, iso deep dives on content as well as tone incoming in a few hours unless rl gets in the way.

This is what you said, which is just what I said. You tried making your point about my tone (on a read that apparently isn’t strong anymore?) and when it didn’t come across, you told people to ISO me and then “see what you see”. Which is telling us to just trust what your saying based on your experience and really nothing else.

If this isn’t a strong read, why should we trust your experience then? I’d you self-admittingly are saying that your gut-reaction comments/vote WASNT strong and shouldn’t be regarded as a strong opinion, then why should I think your gut-reaction vote on Airan because you “are sheeping Spangled for the time being” should be regarded as a strong vote?

I strongly believe you are trying to frame a narrative that is based on nothing at this point

you're leaving out the posts where I argued from you acting perhaps overly enthusiastic. That was the beginning of my argument. I never claimed my read then was particularly strong, because 10 pages into a game it's hard to have strong and accurate reads. I'm not RC, I can't solve the game on page 5 every time.

This is the interaction which convinced me that NMSA is town. HE appears genuinely frustrated with Jamelia and feels he is being misrepped. He responded well to Jamelia's questioning and I agree, it's difficult to have super strong reads early on. I get NMSA's thinking behind Jamelia being scum initially. I don't agree with his analysis but I get his paranoia.

UNVOTE: oh thank goodness someone is actually playing in the slot now and that's a good catchup. Airan scummed it up enough that I'm def still suspicious, but we're not lynching there today. Also, huh I'm not usually at L-1 d1, I might actually have to put in some effort.

I like eth0s's case on faustiv, and would be most comfortable lynch there. As far as I can tell, the case on me is that my Jam push was bad, I haven't been active enough, and I'm part of many potential scumtaems. The Jam push I've responded to, it was early in the day, and since large chunks of the playerlist hadn't been particularly active, while it wasn't a great push, I didn't have much to go on. At least Spangled knows my meta that I play lazy d1s. Clearly, y'all won't let me get away with that here (probably good, it's something I should fix), but it is what it is. Let me know what questions you need answered, but VOTE: faustiv for now because that was a good case from eth0s.

Honestly this read is weird, but again I can see why he is paranoid about my slot. Him thinking that I could use my buddying for townpoints (if I was scum) is a good line.

I assume you want a claim?

Overall, NMSA's play has been consistent. He's not freaking out, he's not overanalysing, his tone has not changed despite all the questioning and the votes. The players on this BW are shady. Egix literally hopped on to make him L1 WITH intent to hammer without giving any reasoning or rationale. Does no one find that suspect?

[Jamelia]

So if we do decide to lynch Spam and they flip green, then I firmly believe that Faustiv is town.

If we lynch Spam and they flip red, then we have another discussion on if they were partners. But right now I am thinking about hammering on Spam at this point because of this

[Draynth]

Egix literally hopped on to make him L1 WITH intent to hammer without giving any reasoning or rationale. Does no one find that suspect?

It is scummy yes.
Bringing a ton of attention to it changes what egix might do though so I really didn't want to bring it up myself.

[Jamelia]

Faustiv I thought the same thing about Egix as well. He did express intent to hammer a while ago though, and was urged to vote and make it an L-1 by Eth0s. It’s scummy for sure

[Draynth]

So if we do decide to lynch Spam and they flip green, then I firmly believe that Faustiv is town.

I disagree with this

[Draynth]

I need to take a break for a bit to reassess things. I'll be back in the morning

[Jamelia]

UNVOTE:

I am willing to give Faustiv a chance. His posts make a lot of sense now and completely line up with the way I’m thinking, except for HIS main scum reads. I’ll keep those to myself right now

[eth0s]

VOTE: eth0s

[faüstiv]

In theory it could be some sort of mega gambit where both NMSA and faustiv are scum but I think that's unlikely

It's a good point that faustiv could've sat by and let spam be lynched, but given he was a close second to be lynched after eth0s joined i don't think it's unlikely that he would try to do something proactive to gain some town cred
Honestly it's really difficult to sort all of this without any flips to draw some more concrete interactions from

We get the most information from an eth0s lynch.

If he's mafia, then that makes Spangled locktown, Egix very likely town and me very likely town (from everyone else's perspective).

If he's town then Egix is likely scum due to his unexplained 180 and putting NMSA on L1 and also intending to hammer him.

If NMSA flips town what do you gain? If I'm lynched and I flip town, what do you gain?

[eth0s]

make it fast

[eth0s]

actually you know what this is better
VOTE: not my spam account

[eth0s]

you're welcome

[Draynth]

hmm

[Jamelia]

...what

[Draynth]

well I've gotta say I'm not a fan of that one